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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 21, 2023 19:53:41 GMT
well there haven't been many clangers during the international break. one possible during the Turkey game. another at Forest Green, but didn't bother posting either of those. 2 clangers by us in our game. god knows how we get away with them so often. 2 things i can promise you for certain. a) we can't keep riding our luck like this, and b) go up a higher level and we will get punished more often. www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/teams/bolton-wanderers/12989403/bolton-2-1-northampton-town-league-one-highlights/more/31st clanger at 1.08 , 2nd at 1.25 . which leads to a shot on target from them. 3 Northampton players clearly closing in and blocking the passing angles yet RS still insists on going short. and the Prem is back and the clangers are coming in now : 1.43 the Arsenal clanger...Raya just about gets away with it. then soon after.... Chelsea keeper with a horrendous gaffe..gifts Arsenal pretty much their 1st shot on target. Rice slams it home ! and Chelsea having been 2-0 up pre-clanger go on to drop 2 pt's. anyone under 30 seems to just accept these gaffes. anyone older knows IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE LIKE THIS.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 21, 2023 20:09:18 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67109089no direct gaffes from Burnley but i'll continue to have a dig at them and their "progressive football" . ie the type of Football Evatt beleives you have to play to do well at the higher levels. well it bloody well ain't helping them much. they lost 3-0 to Brentford today. this is only Brentfords 2nd win this PL season. they had 10 shots on target ( see link above) to Burnley's 1. 23 shots to 6. Burnley have let in 23 goals. no team has conceded more. that's an average of 23/9 = 2.55 per game. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-burnley/transfers/verein/1132they've spent a fortune on players...see link. amounts are in euro's but that 5 or 6 above 10 mill euro's.... with 4 of those at 15 mill or above !! compare to say Luton, who are above them in the table...scored more, conceded less (17). and spent considerably less. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/luton-town/transfers/verein/1031highest tfr's 23/24 only around 5-6 mill euro mark. & no doubt their wage bill will be lower too. loving their 2nd goal today at Forest. freeze it at 2.38. Luton players just over half way line.... long "pass" up to big Adebayo, who chests it and slams it in. can't see Burnley , or us...scoring like that. not trying to walk it in. they are staying in games well, since 1st 2 games of the season, they've only lost by the odd goal, as well as picking up the odd draw, like today, and an away win at Everton etc.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 21, 2023 20:20:31 GMT
horrendous error this one by Bournemouth. they are becoming regulars in this slot , after a bad gaffe away at Everton last time out. clanger at 2.18. looks awful even at that point. plays it right into the thick of trouble. Wolves were 1-0 down in this game, and don't score too freely, they had got back to 1-1 and this gaffe on 88 mins just gifted them the win. just hope the B/mth fans are enjoying this progressive footie . losing at home. 0 wins in 9 played. 4th defeat on the trot and you still feel the lads are in confident mood to pop it around at the back.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 21, 2023 20:53:56 GMT
Bayern in the dark strip get away with a clanger at 0.17 here. don't know who the co-comm is, but he agrees with me... at 0.30 " no idea why they played a short one " !!
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 21, 2023 21:45:24 GMT
the EFL official hi-lites show the 1st gaffe at 4.32, yet somehow don't deem the 2nd gaffe by Santos worthy of showing even though it led to a shot on target & big chance.
their goal is at about 7.39. even the neutral(?) commentator says the scorer is completely unmarked, as is the guy who laid the ball out to the crosser...he'd continued his run.
the 2nd gaffe is in this vid at 1.32.
while the gaffes didn't lead to goals directly, Hoskins possibly got some confidence out of them....they are like sighters for him to get his eye in...., when his team otherwise had created little for him, as they would do as they a pretty crap promoted side, who'll be fighting all season to avoid relegation. better teams will punish this more.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 22, 2023 14:00:12 GMT
I’ve watched all these mistakes RTF and no doubt there’ll be many many more to come before the season is finished with
I’m not just having a go here but Pep is the perpetrator of all this ‘play out from the back’ system just as he did when at Barcelona and probably with good reason as he had the gifted players to execute this. He’s also bought his way to the top with Man City and adapted the same system and It also appears that every other team in the Prem applies this method in the hope of beating Pep at his own game.
When you watch The Big Match revisited on ITV 3 you don’t see any of this playing around, it’s just good old fashioned ‘get stuck in’ football and I’m not promoting long ball here by the way, but football then was just as entertaining and probably yielded more goals
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Post by chip on Oct 22, 2023 15:11:29 GMT
I don't like this football we are playing it looks good when top player's do it and run rings around the opposition but no disrespect to our player's they just can't play like that. It's no point us going on about it because is not going to change his ways of playing football so we have to just go with the flow and hope it all works out Ian as iv'e said before has the most secure job in football. We might not go up but I'm sure we won't go down and I believe that will do the board for now as we are making money from season ticket's and big match day crowds COYWM.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 22, 2023 17:01:59 GMT
Just this minute happened at Villa v Wet Spam Keeper rolls out and almost gets caught (69 mins) Nearly an equaliser Do they never learn
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 22, 2023 19:41:13 GMT
I’ve watched all these mistakes RTF and no doubt there’ll be many many more to come before the season is finished with I’m not just having a go here but Pep is the perpetrator of all this ‘play out from the back’ system just as he did when at Barcelona and probably with good reason as he had the gifted players to execute this. He’s also bought his way to the top with Man City and adapted the same system and It also appears that every other team in the Prem applies this method in the hope of beating Pep at his own game. When you watch The Big Match revisited on ITV 3 you don’t see any of this playing around, it’s just good old fashioned ‘get stuck in’ football and I’m not promoting long ball here by the way, but football then was just as entertaining and probably yielded more goals exactly. mistakes still happened but these clangers are such unforced errors. suicidal. any Manager who thinks they are scoring more goals thru this method to what they are conceding are deluding themselves. just look at the regularity that this is happening, and this is exactly what this thread is trying to prove. we're not talking about being a bit unlucky with 1 in 100 occurences of errors that you might be able to tolerate. Arsenal near misses this week and last time out. real costly clangers by Bournemouth in consecutive weeks. hardly a PL game passed without one. i've been pleasantly surprised by the commentators speaking out more against it too, instead of the habit i see sometimes, of this praise for doing "the right thing" or trying to play the right way..... " nonsense. i'm not a big fan of Jonathan Pearce but even he criticised the 2 clangers in the Chels v Ars game on MOTD, and Shearer was scathing about the Chelsea keepers poor kick out saying just boot it clear etc. i've not posted up the City v Brighton game, but there were also 2 possibles in that. maybe being slightly picky here, not as blatant as some of the other true clangers this wk/end, Haaland's goal came from some sideways over-playing by Brighton in their own half, and the City keeper also made a dodgy kick out. not a short kick out just a mid range chipped kick that went straight to a Brighton player that then led to a big chance for Brighton. another in the sheff utd v man u game. www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001rsqk/match-of-the-day-202324-21102023it's a 1.01.52 where the Sheff u keeper does a terrible pass out that goes straight to Rashford. the chance gets wasted. he could have shot, but passes instead and it ends up getting saved.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 23, 2023 21:59:18 GMT
final PL game of the round. room for more passing out disasters....... certainly was. 2 in fact. both punished well by Spurs. 1st one at 1.03. 2nd one at 1.49. both errors by the same player , Bassey of fulham. at 2.16 they're still messing around and Bassey almost cocks up again ! . well he does, it just doesn't get punished. they only won 2 -0 and both are from errors. just proves how difficult it is to score proper open play goals that you create yourself. i'm always interested to assess goals i see scored & judge are they counters, multi pass moves, from set pieces, headers, long shots etc.
those goals just back up the old Charlie Hughes theory that most goals are scored from 3 passes or less, not long multi pass moves building from the back. it's the surprise element that helps. defenders are trying to move into space to receive the ball, rather than mark opposition players, so when the defenders lose the ball, most opposition attackers are unmarked and they catch you with your proverbial pants down etc and get shots in on your goal ...
i mean, just freeze it at 1.03/1.04, when Bassey is passing it out. look at Son....totally unmarked on the edge of the box. where is the sense in that ? can't there be an insurance policy sweeper or something to mop up just in case errors are made.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 23, 2023 22:18:52 GMT
key bit from 3.30. the worm might finally be turning. Carra pointing out B/mth's previous cock ups last time out vs Everton as i've already said in this thread, and Gary 'o Neil admitting he was targetting this as a weakness. rightly so.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 24, 2023 9:59:05 GMT
great stuff from Andy Townsend mainly, but backed up a fair bit by Ally Mccoist about obsession with passing out in risky areas & risky moments of games. best stuff around 2.32.20 ( approx 8.40am on the talksport clock) . Andy having a go at coaches reassuring players even after errors. what ? give them another goal ? Mccoist saying all his previous managers would be apoplectic if they'd have given cheap goals away like that. both saying, Barca and City did it but they had the best players etc. both 100% convinced on that one. also re Bassey last night .... "made one rick, makes another..... at what point do you think, i don't wanna do that again " think they've been reading my post from last night...they even mention the positioning of other centre backs....not around on the cover in case the risky passing does break down. next excellent section from 2.55.40 to 2.59.30. Andy saying what are the fans thinking...are they buying into this. Ally agreeing saying majority must have hearts in their mouth. why taking these needless risks. around 2.59.20 fan texts in to say..yeah even worse when lge 1 think they can do this. bwfc fan i presume , and no it wasn't me. . Rene Meulenstein then comes on from 3.01.40 and they put it to him. he defends it a little bit, but even he's adamant there's a time and place for it. and says at Utd they'd just releive the pressure by hitting it longer and build higher up the field away from your defence. << this bit starts around 3.04.30. can't remember which section but Andy also has a pop at managers who insist it's their style etc. he's as baffled as i am with managers who seem more obsessed with style than results. nice bit from Rene at 3.02.45 saying he's seen Bassey before & knows he's not capable of playing out. and also mentions positioning of other defenders. **edit- looks like they've pulled the vid..it was the full show and they don't keep them up forever, but i hoped for another day or 2 til all who might have wanted to see it could have had a chance. they sometimes clip bits down and put those out. none so far but i'll keep an eye out. ** good. they have clipped it down now & put that bit up, which is decent. see below.
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Post by whiteofthesouth on Oct 24, 2023 14:30:15 GMT
I’m very much enjoying this thread, but would make the point that two teams that are the epitome of passing out from the back finished first and second in the premier league last year. We had an excellent defensive record last year. Punting it long often means it just comes straight back. Just watch the last fifteen minutes of the Northampton game. I agree that possession isn’t everything, but, more often than not, when people highlight an example like “they had 70% possession and still lost” they forget the other nine out of ten games where the same team had 70% possession and won. Another issue that’s been highlighted is FV’s lack of spending and “Ian having to do this on a tight budget”. I simply don’t believe, at least in relative terms, that’s true. I’ll bet we have at worst top five spending on players in L1 this year, maybe even higher.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 24, 2023 16:10:45 GMT
thanks for those counter points Whiteofthesouth. i'm fighting against the prevailing dogma that you "have" to play like this. the big teams generally get away with it, they can choose to play any way they want with the top players and win. just look back at my evidence of the 2018 WC final with France not buying into this passing out business. same with 2022 final to see it doesn't have to be that way to win . Spain started a lot of this at the 2010 World cup, but they've had a poor record since, barely winning a game at WC's since. just a good generation of players is largely the answer , rather than some winning formula that has to be blindly copied by everyone. we're getting away with it as we are a big fish in this league. the weaker teams struggle to punish any errors. but as we climb up thru' the leagues, we become a smaller fish every step of the way. Evatt's argument , when Rotherham and Wigan were out-muscling us to promotion was that we had to play this way to help us in higher divisions. Rotherham did stay up but now with so many of their key players sold, it'll be very tough this year, due to financial reasons rather than football. Wigan again..hard to judge due to finances, not footie. Evatts argument about progression is bizarre saying this to BWFC fans with our recent history in the prem, of giving the likes of Arsenal a hard time by playing to our strengths & overcoming far more talented sides, something Evatt has yet to show any evidence he can do the same, in rare cup duels against the better sides like Villa or Boro. what is our edge when we play teams that are better than us ? we should be looking at the likes of Bournemouth and Burnley and saying...how's it working for them. i base my views on evidence, not on pre-judging things. observe these teams, not just come out with the tired old cliches i hear from some...."oh football's changed, these things don't work anymore etc " . really ? Parky seems to be doing ok at Wrexham, when given decent funds. hard to judge even that as i reckon the money is speaking more than the style. look at Swansea last yr, managed by good old Russell Martin. www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/7/Seasons/9141/Stages/21990/TeamStatistics/England-Championship-2022-202364% possession..2nd best in the Ch'ship . en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%9323_EFL_Championship#League_tablebut finished 10th in the lge. Luton were 18th for possession, yet 3rd in the lge . & no doubt with a lower budget too. I might be just putting one side forward to just to counter the logic of this prevailing nonsense, but overall we need to have some constructive ideas how to play well at that top level for us, as a smaller team. it always make me laugh when i remember the hype Coyle got from the media.... all those results and 4 consecutive top 6-8 finishes for BSA yet mostly slated by them, yet OC's around for 2 mins and he gets loads of plaudits....future Arsenal manager !?!? . the media just seem to parrot the views of the big 4 or 5 teams. no wonder they prefer OC, they used to just roll up grab their 3 pt's & be gone, and pat us on the back for playing the right way. yet again hard to judge as BSA had more funds ( mainly thru big money Bosmans, not tfr's ) , but at least there's a semblance of BSA earning those funds through promotions and early years fighting to stay up.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 26, 2023 9:56:57 GMT
not found too many clangers so far midweek in Champs lge or Lge 1. just this one the ITV highlights mentioned in Peterboro game. a near miss at 1.36. just shows you how easy it is for the oposition to create pressure for you. Peterboro just slide the ball down the wing, full back pressured..ends up with the keeper, and he plays a ball he instantly regrets .
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