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Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 11, 2023 12:06:53 GMT
Brilliant! Examples of what we say week in week out. Don't you get it Ian? I’d love to be able to say ‘it’s not the system that’s at fault, it’s Evatt’ but then when the best managers are getting it so wrong it kind of exposes that belief Albeit, they have far far better quality players than we do and they still get it wrong
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 11, 2023 21:16:12 GMT
this is from about 2 years ago. gaffe is early on at 0.07 with pass out from Dixon...to Comley ( i think that is anyway ). considering we do this sooo much, i'm amazed we haven't had many more of these. many near misses. can anyone remember anymore affecting us , that i'm forgetting .
generally i want to keep the rest of the thread as just a weekly or midweek update on the sheer number of times these happen. i'll be scanning some of the main internationals for any. as well as the EFL action.
there must be some way to prove these gaffes are unnecessary and not helping teams as they types of goals conceded were very rare in the past. if a keeper drops a cross or fluffs a save, it's not great, but you accept it. you hope it's a one off, but these are so self inflicted & suicidal, and feel awful. where are the counter-balancing goals being scored due to this tactic.... is there proof of goals scored going up in general purely due to this tactic. ?? . Ooh Mac has already mentioned, evidence of goals scored going straight thru' from end to end via this tactic are extremely rare, & those are as misleading as 30+ pass moves that lead to goals. the latter just seem encourage a "walking it into the net" attitude based on "safe" passing. you're in the attacking 3rd presumably this is the place you should be taking risks...gambling.... be prepared to lose the ball...play the ball into space, thereby dragging people out of position. it's a lot easier for the opposition defence marking men, rather than marking space.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 11, 2023 21:57:37 GMT
2018 world cup final - won by France. skimming thru this game... Lloris giving it the big boot more times than not. so much for the media narrative, thats it's all modern football now. everyone does it. you can't win without partaking in this lunacy. well just the ones i've found so far..... ( going off the youtube timer at the bottom rather than the time on screen in top left ) 12.07, 21.15 , 29.51 keeper pressed here on a breakaway...wallop. danger gone !. & it almost leads to a big chance with the clearance. 32.45 kick from the hands by Lloris..and wins a corner..... this 'll never catch on . the resulting corner led to a slightly dubious pen being awarded for handball. 45.56, 52.15 . that's enough evidence for me. struggled to see what Croatia did from their g/k's. only saw one. but France didn't really press it anyway.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 11, 2023 22:19:40 GMT
doesn't look like France changed much in 2022 WC final vs Arg either. 1.26.00 Arg don't even attempt to press it, but France still boot it.
1.06.20 arg keeper boots it. & again at 1.28.30 . haven't skimmed this vid as much as the 2018, but really can't see it being any different. don't know if congested 3 or 4 week schedule making pressing just a no-no or what.
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Post by OohMac on Oct 12, 2023 18:20:33 GMT
It makes no sense to me to have a manager who won't put a keeper on the bench(of 7!) Because of risk vs reward but will pass it across the back several times.
I've come to accept that. In Evatts 150 games the keeper that starts the match has finished the match. OK if we get an injury or red(less likely because of the jepody rule we basically forfeit but its a 1/200 occasion)
But take the same logic goals conceded vs goals scored from passing it out from the back and its not a we may concede 1 but we've scored 200. Or to be fairer how many clear cut chances created vs how many chances conceded/possession lost. If he gives me a stat that differs then I'll have a rethink but to the minds eye it seems passing it out from the back has about a 50:50 chance of us having a chance to us giving away a chance.
Maybe that's not true but it sure is how it seems to me.
And the only reason we do it is to fix the possession stats and as a personal vanity project.
Reason we go all in against a Man U schoolboy team? Evatt knows its a fairly easy route to a final and a trophy and again vanity. Other managers would think don't care, not bothered. But you get your mug on TV more if you win at Wembley than you do for finishing 2nd and being promoted.
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 13, 2023 9:15:59 GMT
That’s a pretty good summery OM and I think you should send that to IE because I bet he’s never considered it that way. Of course he’d probably come back and say well if we have the ball the opposition can’t score, which is undoubtedly true but how many times have we bossed possession and still lost? I have no problem playing out from the back as long as the balls moved forward quickly from defence through midfield to the attack. It’s when we don’t and we have this ridiculous standing on the ball stuff that infuriates.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 13, 2023 10:48:42 GMT
That’s a pretty good summery OM and I think you should send that to IE because I bet he’s never considered it that way. Of course he’d probably come back and say well if we have the ball the opposition can’t score, which is undoubtedly true but how many times have we bossed possession and still lost? I have no problem playing out from the back as long as the balls moved forward quickly from defence through midfield to the attack. It’s when we don’t and we have this ridiculous standing on the ball stuff that infuriates. Well we can all rest easy as Rico should be back for Northampton and he likes to ‘stand on the ball with his right boot’ Ian Evatt is so privileged to be at the helm when there’s far better currently out of work (apart from Challinor) I’d take a punt on any of these rather than go backward with Evatt, I’m fkn bored to death of his football Dave Challinor Nathan Jones Chris Wilder Dean Smith Slaven Bilic Michael Appleton Leam Richardson All better than Evatt at our league and above #timeforchange
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Post by OohMac on Oct 13, 2023 15:03:00 GMT
That’s a pretty good summery OM and I think you should send that to IE because I bet he’s never considered it that way. Of course he’d probably come back and say well if we have the ball the opposition can’t score, which is undoubtedly true but how many times have we bossed possession and still lost? I have no problem playing out from the back as long as the balls moved forward quickly from defence through midfield to the attack. It’s when we don’t and we have this ridiculous standing on the ball stuff that infuriates. Ian Evatt isn't going to listen to me. He's in the process of looking for Sam Hirds replacement. I bet he's not looking too further afield than Barrow and Blackpool though. Someone who tells him how great he is. RowZed will probably get the gig. I think you're right though Whites the set up, the team selection there's not many times at 2.30 on a Saturday where I think we can't win. It's just 3 o clock and it's slow laborious, tedious. No intent or urgency. If they put some zip on the pass and moved after release they may cause teams a lot more problems. But you've got a small squad and asking them to do most work. It's a recipe for disaster. Our players get burnt out and that either means treatment room or badly out of form. In simple terms in the way we set up were asking Williams and JDC to be there at the back when Baxter has a goal kick and also be there creating for Dion and Co in the same move. We don't have any real wing back cover. And I assume they're covering about 15k a game, every game. For me it's easy. When we have a winnable game at home. 451. Williams and DC are wingers not wing backs. They camp on the half way line and don't come further back. We get them the ball in the opponents half and we control the game in thier half not ours.
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Post by Woppy the Italian on Oct 13, 2023 19:32:23 GMT
That’s a pretty good summery OM and I think you should send that to IE because I bet he’s never considered it that way. Of course he’d probably come back and say well if we have the ball the opposition can’t score, which is undoubtedly true but how many times have we bossed possession and still lost? I have no problem playing out from the back as long as the balls moved forward quickly from defence through midfield to the attack. It’s when we don’t and we have this ridiculous standing on the ball stuff that infuriates. Well we can all rest easy as Rico should be back for Northampton and he likes to ‘stand on the ball with his right boot’ Ian Evatt is so privileged to be at the helm when there’s far better currently out of work (apart from Challinor) I’d take a punt on any of these rather than go backward with Evatt, I’m fkn bored to death of his football Dave Challinor Nathan Jones Chris Wilder Dean Smith Slaven Bilic Michael Appleton Leam Richardson All better than Evatt at our league and above #timeforchange Michael Appleton ....why??? .. you can not be serious!!!
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Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 15, 2023 17:44:11 GMT
Well we can all rest easy as Rico should be back for Northampton and he likes to ‘stand on the ball with his right boot’ Ian Evatt is so privileged to be at the helm when there’s far better currently out of work (apart from Challinor) I’d take a punt on any of these rather than go backward with Evatt, I’m fkn bored to death of his football Dave Challinor Nathan Jones Chris Wilder Dean Smith Slaven Bilic Michael Appleton Leam Richardson All better than Evatt at our league and above #timeforchange Michael Appleton ....why??? .. you can not be serious!!! Yeah, fair play on the Michael Appleton one Wop, just anyone, but Evatt I can see Blackpool getting comfortable in this league and I’d expect them to be there or there abouts, especially with Jordan Rhodes banging the goals in. I think he’s scored the same amount as Dion I know it’s still early days but it’s looking increasingly likely that if you beat Portsmouth you could be going up, as they appear to be the Plymouth of the league so far and they’ve not been defeated yet
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 16, 2023 8:56:14 GMT
No sorry rioch I don’t want Evatt gone, he’s done a pretty good job so far on a limited budget but I do want him to see what’s in front of him and accept that we’re just not good enough to play Pep Ball. I’m totally convinced that with the squad we have we are entirely capable of beating anybody in this league, home and away, but not if we constrain the players with this awful walking football we seem consigned to. I noticed that England the other night were the same, walking pace, foot on top of the ball and it was just awful. Where have these coaches got this from all of a sudden? We’ve always had total football for years and everybody moves forward and back together but unless you’ve got really switched on strikers who can score regularly from a limited number of chances this slow build up just doesn’t work and leads to the inconsistency we have now. We’ve got pacy players but they’re not being allowed to use it and we’re also crying out for Plan B when the build up stuff doesn’t work. Get Bod and Jerome in the middle and have Williams and Cogley getting crosses in instead of always having to come inside where 9 times out of 10 our moves break down. I can only hope that Evatt selects a new coach with new ideas and not just an acceptance of his because if he does nothing will change and then I’ll agree with you that we need someone new.
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Post by kenglowhite on Oct 16, 2023 10:19:38 GMT
I never thought I would say this, but after watching the all-action movements in the Rugby Union World Cup I am beginning to prefer their game to ours, which, particularly Southgate's England, frequently puts me to sleep. One of the major excuses for this type of soccer is the use of the goalkeeper as an outplayer. It should create space for an extra attacker in midfield or up front, but frequently doesn't. Evatt is obviously only following modern coaching trends and has had some success, but needs exactly the right players for regular rewards, as does Southgate. Would we prefer to go back to the old kick and rush which was replaced by Holland's total football?
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Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 16, 2023 14:51:05 GMT
No sorry rioch I don’t want Evatt gone, he’s done a pretty good job so far on a limited budget but I do want him to see what’s in front of him and accept that we’re just not good enough to play Pep Ball. I’m totally convinced that with the squad we have we are entirely capable of beating anybody in this league, home and away, but not if we constrain the players with this awful walking football we seem consigned to. I noticed that England the other night were the same, walking pace, foot on top of the ball and it was just awful. Where have these coaches got this from all of a sudden? We’ve always had total football for years and everybody moves forward and back together but unless you’ve got really switched on strikers who can score regularly from a limited number of chances this slow build up just doesn’t work and leads to the inconsistency we have now. We’ve got pacy players but they’re not being allowed to use it and we’re also crying out for Plan B when the build up stuff doesn’t work. Get Bod and Jerome in the middle and have Williams and Cogley getting crosses in instead of always having to come inside where 9 times out of 10 our moves break down. I can only hope that Evatt selects a new coach with new ideas and not just an acceptance of his because if he does nothing will change and then I’ll agree with you that we need someone new. Thing is though W63, by the very words of your first paragraph and some of your second, you know he’s been here long enough to see what’s in front of him and his desire to stay with the Pep ball, proves enough to me that he’s no mover or shaker and in the words of Thatcher, he’s definitely not for turning’ Had to giggle at this comment on Wiki ‘Evatt will sometimes bring on attacking players when winning matches rather than defensive players, preferring to score more goals than defend a lead’ OH…… SINCE WHEN??? We’re not moving forward with this man, I’m sorry W63, I’ll stick with the comment I made on my own if I have to, but for me, he’s not the man to lead us up to the higher league
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 16, 2023 15:52:20 GMT
Actually rioch I’d rather perversely consider that IE might actually do better in a higher league as he would be working with better players who could carry out his requirements more effectively and consistently. I suspect what either of us think is irrelevant anyway because Evatt’s going nowhere. It’s a bit like Anderson pinning his flag to Parkys mast because he’d never get anyone else to work for him and it would be an admission of failure by FV to get rid of Ian after all they’ve said about him. Like him or not we’re stuck with him, for this season at least so let’s just hope either he’s right and we’re wrong or he sees the problem and sorts it. Mind you, if we lose to Northampton on Saturday and considering the games to follow which are predominantly away and against leading clubs, we could be out of even the top six after the next ten games and then things may well be different? I certainly hope not whatever we think of Evatt.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 16, 2023 20:29:17 GMT
As we both know W63, wanting and getting have 2 different outcomes and I totally agree with you that he’s not going anywhere. Doesn’t change my opinion on him, I really do want him to succeed as I did when we ‘snared’ him from the Mighty Barrowcelona, but he gives Keith Hill and Douuuggie Freedman a run for their money in the stubbornness stakes
His stock with FV and Sharon will still have much credit left, not so much with the fans if we do get beat at home to Northampton I’m sure, but the fact he has some sort of percentage shares/ownership in the Whites makes things a bit different to any other normal manager that simply faces the exit door if things aren’t going so well, Evatt seems to be bulletproof
Northampton are one of those teams at the bottom that we will thrash when they visit the ReeMacSheet on Saturday, just as we did with Carlisle 🤔
I fear falling behind the pacesetters if we fail on Saturday
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