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Post by whitesince63 on May 16, 2020 9:17:49 GMT
Well it just shows that the further up the leagues you go OM the less it’s about principles and common sense and all about money. It’s sickening really but unfortunately selfishness rules the game these days. It will though be interesting to see what happens if it’s agreed there will be no relegation from L2. Will that force the issue with L1 as surely they can’t have different rules for one and not the other?
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 17:07:49 GMT
There’s no way on earth we will be playing league one football next season so I’m planning my trips for Grimsby, Port Vale, Oldham and possibly Carlisle if it’s on a weekend. It’s a shame that it’s coming down to money and not sensible thinking ie just finish the season and start again when it’s safe to do so with a new season. Stay safe one and all COYWM
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Post by andyl on May 17, 2020 10:11:56 GMT
I suppose that we must wait to see whether the calm, compliant, accepting and rather admirable silent stance of Football Ventures in the bear pit of EFL self interest serves BWFC as well as the tub-thumping of Peterborough's chairman does them.
Rick Parry argues' the integrity of the league' but for us it has none. Bury were not allowed to start, we were but with a youth team and whichever way I look at ti the integrity of the league was shot to pieces from the off and even more so if for once fans are the arbiters- what happened at Bolton and Bury was not the fans' fault. And if owners made mistakes or proved untrustworthy nevertheless the EFL's ad hoc approach was part of the problem.
There is no way that EFL football should complete its season in Div 1 any more than Div2 - already accepted.. Nor is there any credible basis for promotion and certainly not relegation at any level. An obvious solution is to expand the EPL by two, take two up from all leagues and have no relegation as Div 2 clubs have already argued and tehn begin again with clean slates and new financial rules, certainly at Div1 and Div 2
I imagine FV will see that argument. Maybe they are making it.. Marc Iles argues it will serve Bolton well to start again in Div 2 with a clean start. I disagree. Anyway I wouldn't put it past the EFL to let us be relegated and still carry on as ever and lead our embargo in place ( when lots of other clubs are by now probably faring worse? I worry that outraged of Peterborough' will bully an unfair rushed resolution.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 14:50:20 GMT
Andy, is there separate rules for each division? I can't see how each division can have different rules, National League included, and it not apply throughout the league. Are they all separate entities under the EFL? I thought that, apart from the newly formed EPL in 1992, that all divisions were equal, so to speak and operated under the same regulations.
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Post by whitesince63 on May 17, 2020 18:00:56 GMT
I don’t think anybody knows what’s happening rules wise wots, each divisions clubs seem to have a different view. Clearly the Championship are dependant on what happens in the PL as they want 3 of their teams promoted whilst obviously the PL teams at the bottom want no relegation. L2 still haven’t agreed what to do other than they don’t want Stevenage to be relegated, yet they still want promotions. L1 is just a mess and seems to be being forced by the group of 6 into some kind of extended play off system. It’s a total and complete mess and basically illustrates the problem with the EFL in that it actually has little power to determine what happens as it’s down to the actual clubs to make the rules. Obviously they don’t have a rule for this situation just like they didn’t have a hard and fast rule for punishing clubs who don’t play a fixture!! Whether FV are being clever staying out of the debate time will tell but whatever happens we look like starting in L2 next season, whenever that is. If they bring in salary caps as suggested and remove any outstanding restraints on us, we should be in a great position to bounce straight back up and probably better than staying in L1 with a continued 12 point penalty if the season were voided? Interesting week next week and I anticipate much argument and rancour from the likes of McAnthony if the muppet doesn’t get his way, which I don’t think he will.
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Post by OohMac on May 18, 2020 8:39:25 GMT
Think the gulf between the three leagues is too big. This will be the start of the rebrand. Think large championship clubs like Leeds, Forest and Derby have wanted a change in money distribution and dont want to be tied to EFL rules.
2nd Premier league could be born out of this. Bad news for us as i dont think any broadcast fancies the L1 and L2 package. Suspect that along the way the two leagues will merge or morph into a pro/semi pro league.
Anyway for the here and now its pretty obvious to me that Prem has enough resources and depth that they can play the season out. So EFL need to work down and find out can the championship follow suit and complete the season by July. If not they are in the same boat at L1 and L2 therefore it should be a standard rules across. We know prem intend to relegate, therefore has to be 3 promoted.
Then do you follow suit and relegate teams or does everyone else stay put. If so what system do you use.
Just accept that there will be winners and losers and cant please everyone and start answering some questions.
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Post by whitesince63 on May 18, 2020 9:46:34 GMT
I’m not sure that the PL will be any more inclined to share their ill gotten gains with the Championship now OM than they were when Gartside tried. The reduction in income from Covid will just enhance their selfishness if you ask me. Only if they’re forced will they change anything. When you consider that many more fans support teams outside the PL than within it, it seems very wrong that the distribution of income is so ridiculously stacked towards the haves and not the have nots but sadly that’s what greed does and the PL teams and management won’t give a fig what happens to teams outside of their little club as long as they’re alright. It’s obvious that change needs to come, anyone can see that, in fact it’s way overdue but sadly it’s all been about how wonderful the PL is and sod everybody else. Personally I never watch any PL football, I find it incredibly boring and I just despair at the money these ungracious, largely uneducated Individuals are paid. I won’t say earn because in my opinion they don’t “earn” a fraction of what they’re paid. The CV thing has just increased my disdain for them and I reckon it will a lot of other people too but sadly not enough to make change happen. Most will still pay their ludicrous Sky and BT contracts watching very few games in reality unless you’re a Manure or Arsenal where you’re on nearly every week. To be honest, I really would prefer to cut the PL off completely and start again with a 3 League competition which is at least competitive and can be run sensibly financially. I don’t believe for a minute that Media companies wouldn’t be interested because there are still some big clubs outside the PL who can more than stand on their own. It needs to change but personally if I do continue to watch football in future, it will only ever be Wanderers wherever and whatever league they’re in. I just want to watch a team that plays for the club, each other and the fans instead of just the money.
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Post by OohMac on May 21, 2020 15:53:38 GMT
Looks like we're getting close to a conclusion. Its quite a firmer stance than I thought. Relegation for the 3. Promotion and a 4 team play off. I'm not sure if its unimaginative or just a concession that they wont please all so why bend over backwards trying.
My view, fair cop for us and Southend. As much as ive talked about the Leicester and similar results i think we all braced for L2. My problem with all leagues is that I dont feel there was a team certain for promotion. L2 is really tight, Coventry have a decent lead but hardly unstoppable. Leeds and West Brom again a decent lead but many furlongs to go and still a few fences left. And god knows Leeds have a habbit of falling near the line.
Tranmere will certainly feel they would survive and AFC Wimbeldon will be relieved more than most.
Speaking of relief i dont think any Rotherham, Plymouth fans had "Promotion 2020" tattoos done in advance. So giving up our L1 place, i can live with but giving it to teams that havent really earned it is a little harder to take.
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Post by whitesince63 on May 21, 2020 17:15:07 GMT
I don’t think whatever they did would suit everybody OM, they’re in an impossible situation and can only try to be fair to those currently at the top and bottom. Obviously the games can’t possibly be played so whatever concoction they arrive at, at least it will have been arrived at by a majority vote. We can’t really complain, we deserve to go down but since no season ever ends how you expect it to, it does seem unfair to those who just miss out. I do wonder though, if it hadn’t been two of the bigger clubs at the top in Leeds and WBA whether the decision to complete the Championship as it is for the top two would have been the same. Would Brentford and Millwall have been gifted promotion? I doubt it personally. Anyway, at least whatever is decided it looks certain we’re going down so at least we can just concentrate on putting a team together to get us straight back up with no penalty points this time, assuming of course the season can start at all and that’s not exactly a certainty.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 19:01:58 GMT
Would we have been gifted promotion, whites? I'd put a tenner on it that we wouldn't, if we had been in that position.
Will this set a precedent for future interruptions in the league?
I can see Tranmere arguing the toss. If the majority rule, then they'll have to bite the bullet. Whatever, even with this 'have to end the season' lark,it'll be a farce, no matter what division you're talking about.
Lastly, it was good to see Wenger backing up Grud's(?) comment on the top supporting the bottom clubs financially, but would he have said that as manager of Arsenal?
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Post by whitesince63 on May 22, 2020 8:19:46 GMT
Interesting question wots, would Wenger have a different view if still at Arsenal? Probably not, just like the majority of ex players who agree with the decision to play out the season because they aren’t the ones at risk. All selfishness and money oriented and it stinks. How can the government consider it safe whilst telling us that we still need to self distance and can’t even have relatives in your garden, even when you can sit well apart. It’s ridiculous, they can’t both be right. All this rubbish about lifting morale is nonsense. It’s already obvious from the lack of viewing in Germany after its return that interest is low so why risk it? Actually, I don’t have a problem with restarting football if restrictions generally are relaxed, as I firmly believe they should be. I’ve always maintained the risks to younger, healthy people are small and the statistics are now proving that, so locking everybody down and treating everybody the same is crazy. Anyway, whatever the PL do, it won’t affect us and it looks like we will soon get proof of our relegation so at least we can then look ahead to starting our climb back up.
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Post by kenglowhite on May 22, 2020 9:34:49 GMT
All the various issues being raised about finance, how to end, and future organisation omit the major concern that it is still not safe to partake in contact sports, and that there is no way the game should be restarted whether in empty stadia or not. It was surprising to hear the Sports minister yesterday going along with this ballyhoo, and the remarks by the one-time Bolton hate figure, Robbie Savage, about how could the leagues restart, when grass roots in for example the Bolton Combination couldn't were extremely relevant. It does look as though the executioner's axe will eventually come down on BWFC, but meantime how are FV going to continue without the sale of next season's ticket. salary cap or not. Maybe we are not too far from the position we were in last June without reassurances from the owners about their plans and views.I was under the impression that they had up to a billion pounds worth of backing to guarantee bank support, but now I have some doubts. The silence of motor-mouth Keith Hill, who should be raising our hopes, is also suspicious in that he may have been silenced, or more hopefully put on gardening leave. All in all I think this season should be ended as soon as possible if it can't be voided and the green shoots encouraged with a hopeful start in September for the 20-21 season with an experienced holding midfield player the priority and the best of our current staff remaining alongside one or two frees from higher league rejects.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 12:23:52 GMT
In relation to our own situation Ken, you are correct. Is a second administration period not far away? I can see why FV are schtum at the moment. How would they finance the players after June 30th and other staff? Even if it's to play a game behind closed doors.Then there's the maintenance of the stadium and hotel. Is it open yet?
The sale of season tickets for the new season is crucial to the club and the lack of is one reason why I mentioned part-time players in another post.
It's going to be many years before we are even out of Lge 2. Anyone thinking of bouncing back in one season, well, don't hold your breath. I don't think the standard between the lower half of Lge 1 and upper half of Lge 2 is much different. We struggled this season, so next season will be no push over.
Maybe there's a magic money tree in the parking lot.
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Post by whitesince63 on May 23, 2020 8:24:13 GMT
Call me naive but I’m not actually concerned about FV having the resources to run the club. I believe along with their group of investors they have sufficient to see the club through this difficult time. Obviously it’s going to be a difficult period but I believe there are numerous clubs who will have more difficulty surviving than ourselves. Personally, I would be prepared to purchase a season ticket if necessary to help out but I accept not everybody will or can do that. It looks like there will be a raft of changes to both funding and finance going forward because if anything, this virus has just highlighted the precarious nature of lower league football which must be addressed. It’s rumoured this morning that the club plan changes at the top, which suggests KH’s position may be under threat, so who will take over if that happens may determine what kind of team we have. It’s also rumoured that we’re looking at non league players so that may be the level we’re at when we do resume. Having said that, I don’t think other clubs will be much better off though so you have to get things into perspective. We all thought when Ken finally sold we were through the storm but this Covid issue has just made the situation ten times worse. Let’s just hope we come through it and deal with expectations once we know where we are.
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Post by OohMac on May 23, 2020 9:42:21 GMT
Think FV will rely on furlough as long as they can. When this ends, the playing staff will and can be reduced drastically. We could see the Jr Whites back with a dozen other glorified trialist and loan players. Talking hundreds a week.
The clubs need help no doubt. Whether thats from Premier league, councils, PFA or whether we can generate our own revenue from iPlayer.
I do foresee a L2 at a semi professional level. Maybe with an agreement that you can only have a local team with say 2 out of area players, 2 senior professionals and mayve overseas player, like cricket. As fans are allowed back then rules can slacken.
If we can sort of stick to the same hymn sheet we may be able to have a fair and entertaining league. (Realistically think already Neville and Co are thinking they can slaughter the teams in this league with a cash injection at the right time).
Had this been last season then BWFC would have died. No one would have taken us on. Everyone talks about L2 and L1 being in big trouble. Look at the debts in championships. Some will fall and no ones going to give them a fair offer.
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