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Post by surreywhite on Aug 10, 2014 15:00:47 GMT
Part 1 of the striker crisis resolved as mason joins.... As people said yesterday, this won't resolve the trouble without a big man being signed as well and a change of formation... Over to you Dougie!
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Post by whitesince63 on Aug 10, 2014 15:33:17 GMT
Time will tell that Surrey, personally I don't rate Mason and without Juke who made him look better I think you'll soon find that out. Also said earlier, Freedman has zero ability to get the best from players and make changes during games that positively affect the play. Yesterday we were well and truly thumped by a team that will struggle to make the top half and it could and probably should have been much worse. This result wasn't a bad day at the office, it was consistent with results and performances since he came here. Some of us on here identified that very early on whilst others are now finally also beginning to accept it. Either way Management needs to accept that it won't improve whilst he's here, which hopefully will not now be too long.
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Post by surreywhite on Aug 10, 2014 15:52:18 GMT
Agree he isn't good enough on his own, hence saying we need to go and get a big man now... Personally think mason is adequate for our needs, if and only if, you find the correct type of player to accompany him.. Juke did that last year but, I think it would work the same with any other juke type player...
Agree that DF is not a long term appointment for me and personally I would have cut ties at the end of last season... Now we haven't, I can't see that there is a cat in hells chance of him going inside of the first 15 games whether we like it or not... That will undoubtedly place us in a precarious position but to be frank there are only 2 people whose opinions on that matter and it seems they don't share our fears...
I do however think you are being harsh on Watford, with Vydra back, they are a strong outfit particularly if they hold on to Deeney.. They will be top 6 for me.. Not for one minute saying that excuses yesterday's debacle, it was poor, effortless, passionless and tactically inept, but the opposition were in my view a good example of a very strong championship team...
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Post by whitesince63 on Aug 10, 2014 16:05:25 GMT
Two good strikers help but don't make a team Surrey, better teams than us will contain them but frankly Watford apart from those two are a very average Championship side who I repeat will struggle to make top half. It only serves to confirm how far we've slipped that you remotely consider them as top six material. I certainly don't but we'll see. As for Garty and Eddie D's opinion of Freedman, he's now done most of their dirty work without a whimper of resistance and his contract will soon run down making him replaceable cheaply. Have you seen or heard of any contract extensions for him and his cronies?? Thought not.
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Post by surreywhite on Aug 10, 2014 16:35:35 GMT
Two strikers don't make a team, but they don't half help in this league! Being from down this end of the country (& yes I know that to some that makes me less of a fan) I know a fair few Watford fans and see and read about them on our local news, their fans are all very confidant this year and I wouldn't disagree, the set up they have is very similar to the one which took them to the play offs a couple of years back.. Still we shall have to wait and see on that...
Good point on the management teams contracts but tbf they aren't going to offer any contracts at this point given our form over the 2.5 years even if they want to as it will set the fans off even more than is already happening... I hope to goodness that you are correct and they are deliberately running them down but I'm not convinced I must say... If he's doing what they want him to, can't see them cutting ties unless he was effectively employed as a scapegoat right from the start....
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Post by whitesince63 on Aug 10, 2014 17:25:52 GMT
Maybe not a scapegoat exactly Surrey but certainly on trial and now expendable. Anyone could have done what Freedman's done let's be honest so that part wasn't really hard. The hard bit would have been producing a challenging team whilst he made the changes which he's clearly shown he isn't capable of doing. We now need someone to build on the wreckage and that surely can't be Freedman. Gartside's not Einstein as confirmed on another thread but neither can he be that stupid. You only get respect when you earn it not for just carrying out orders.hard to see anyone respecting Freedman.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Aug 10, 2014 17:39:28 GMT
You touched on it perfectly there W63 when you said
"This result wasn't a bad day at the office, it was consistent with results and performances since he came here"
After yesterday's result, the memory of a fabulous World Cup (which was only a few weeks ago) seems like such a distant memory and this is because, I feel, we have simply slipped back into the system of results and performances as the majority of last season. The Watford game just seems like the following weeks fixture after the Birmingham 2-2 draw, another result which confirmed DF shouldn't be at the helm any longer. I still think he got a personal back hander from the Brum chairman for yet another capitulation.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Aug 10, 2014 17:43:49 GMT
Apart from this horrible weather today, I was having a really decent Sunday for a change Then someone in the pub just mentioned that Reading result... Grrrrrrr.....
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Post by surreywhite on Aug 10, 2014 19:17:33 GMT
It's not possible to disagree with what you have said W63, but I would ask 2 questions
1 - we seem to be assuming Gartside wants a manager that he can respect?? Perhaps he still requires a yes man simply because Eddie is happy with his lot now and just wants someone who is happy to work with the odd loan and free transfer here and there as long as it just keeps us in this league? I'd hope that DF is at least an ambitious guy, but I get the impression that those ambitions may be limited to achieving what his employer wants, rather than trying to push past that... Plus right at this minute, nobody else is going to employ him so it's do as you are told or you are quite probably out of work for a reasonable period...
2 - if pg & ed wanted him to take us to a position of getting shot of all the high earners and then they'd get rid of him, why is he still here?? That job was concluded end of last season at the latest... Fact he is still here now suggests they still intend to keep him here at least in the short term (which I can't see being less than 15 games)...
As I've said before I think he should have gone by now, but I just can't quite see what is different now to the last year or so which may get pg to finally open the trap door....
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Post by whitesince63 on Aug 10, 2014 21:21:45 GMT
Money Surrey, that's the difference. I'm sure Gartside had high hopes for Freedman when he first appointed him and he also knew that it would take some time for players contracts to run down. I don't think things have turned out quite how Gartside wanted as the results and incoming players have been much less successful than he anticipated. You say the job is done but it's not quite yet as Chungy, Davvo, Wheater and Bogdan remain on chunky contracts. Freedman's own contract runs out at the end of this season so if he doesn't manage to get a fee for any of them before that there's no point in keeping him. Personally I think Douglas will get to Christmas though if performances like yesterday's continue he'll be gone long before that as any pay off would now be much reduced. For me the sooner the better and with luck it will also finally seal Gartside's fate too and not before time. Eddie, get that sword out for him to fall on, if he's got the decency.
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Post by surreywhite on Aug 10, 2014 22:20:21 GMT
Maybe... But of those 4 - 2 were given new deals (wheats and Davies), they've been trying to get Bogdan to sign though lord knows why (other than to preserve the fee) so there's only Chung that we'd probably be keen to ship out if poss.....
Guess we'll just have to see what happens and hopefully this time in a few months we'll be discussing potential replacements instead!
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Post by kazooki on Aug 14, 2014 12:26:45 GMT
Exactly, it's all about money and herein lies the problem, people think that because we don't win every match or play poorly in the majority of them that BWFC and ED, PG, DF have failed. Which it has, to a fan. But as a business, if one year you lose £50m and the next year you slash the wage bill by 200% get a bit of money in through transfers and actually turn a profit whilst maintaining your league position, I guess the powers that be would call that success!
It cannot continue the way it was, ED will not fund more debt and this is the foreseeable future as a fan, regardless of who is in charge, get used to it. When DF goes (whenever that is), the next manager will be under exactly the same constraints .. if not tighter.
What would DF put on his CV? Turned a club that was losing £50m a year into a club that turned a profit whilst maintaining their original league status. Does that sound like failure?
Yes I know you'll say he's a failure in many other departments, and many I agree with. But this I think is what we have to look forward to.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Aug 14, 2014 13:16:34 GMT
Sorry Kaz but no matter how much DF slashes the wages Bill he is not going to turn a £50m debt into a profit.
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Post by BWFCTILIDIE on Aug 14, 2014 18:35:33 GMT
Dougie might scare the accounts into showing a profit ? Eh Rioch ?
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Post by megsontilidie on Aug 14, 2014 19:30:54 GMT
Exactly, it's all about money and herein lies the problem, people think that because we don't win every match or play poorly in the majority of them that BWFC and ED, PG, DF have failed. Which it has, to a fan. But as a business, if one year you lose £50m and the next year you slash the wage bill by 200% get a bit of money in through transfers and actually turn a profit whilst maintaining your league position, I guess the powers that be would call that success! It cannot continue the way it was, ED will not fund more debt and this is the foreseeable future as a fan, regardless of who is in charge, get used to it. When DF goes (whenever that is), the next manager will be under exactly the same constraints .. if not tighter. What would DF put on his CV? Turned a club that was losing £50m a year into a club that turned a profit whilst maintaining their original league status. Does that sound like failure? Yes I know you'll say he's a failure in many other departments, and many I agree with. But this I think is what we have to look forward to. we've lost our advantages, but it doesn't make us dis-advantaged. certainly no more disadvantaged than BSA was at PL level, and he seemed to do ok. during those 4 top 8 finishes, we had the best record of any club outside the top 4. so effectively ahead of bigger clubs like Spurs, Everton, Villa, Man city etc etc. the same constraints that most of this lge work to. the constraints that were at blackpool when Holloway took them up, or Coyle taking burnley up, or Dyche taking Burnley up. dare i even mention Megson's 2 (yes TWO ) promotions with West Brom going further back. at least 2 of the managers i've mentioned are considered idiots & useless by a lot of BWFC fans. so what does that make Doug-loss..not even raised his level to idiot status ?? we got DF 'cos of his magic 3 weeks at Palace & ability to do well on a budget & bring youth thru. & presumably he'd claim some credit for Palace going up on a tight budget too even though he only managed about 11 games of 46 that season. if DF wants advice on what to write on his CV maybe he could leave out the fact he gave us the worst start to a season for over 100 yr's last season. & we were 2nd or 3rd faves for the lge last yr, and we didn't spend 1 week in the top half. & we also failed to beat any of the top 8 ( or was it 9 ) clubs.
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