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Post by kazooki on Aug 6, 2014 19:32:40 GMT
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Post by realtrottersforever on Aug 6, 2014 19:37:41 GMT
Excuse me Kaz, that would be richforthereebok (RFTR) not me RTF
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Post by spanishjonny on Aug 6, 2014 20:18:57 GMT
Dougie, by accident or design brings the Juke from Middlesborough's reserves, a player not many knew about, who was absolutely made for the present day BWFC, he put himself about, won headers, held the ball up long enough to bring our dopy midfielders into play, scored a few goals, had the making of a good complimentary pairing with Mason, always gave 100% and became a fans favourite, wanted to come here and best of all would only cost £1.5mill
Now for reasons unknown, Gartside failed to get our no1 target.
We can assume we couldn't afford him, so what kind of striker can we afford, by definition one not quite as good as the Juke, certainly not one who will score enough goals to get us in the top six.
Mason is being linked with us again but when he first came last season he couldn't play the lone striker.
Beckford is not the answer, so IMO we can only look forward to a season of no score draws or low scoring defeats with the odd 1-0 win, it's gonna be a very testing season.
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Post by kazooki on Aug 6, 2014 20:26:22 GMT
Excuse me Kaz, that would be richforthereebok (RFTR) not me RTF Fixed .. my own fault for resorting to acronyms!  |
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Post by whitesince63 on Aug 6, 2014 21:03:55 GMT
We all know Gartside is the main problem here but let's not use that to deflect the criticism from DF. His money management since he came here has been abysmal. In fact his management in every regard has been abysmal, chopping and changing, falling out with players, telling them they're great one minute (Knight/Eagles) then completely blanking them the next. His handling of Mears, Andrews, Alonso, SKD and Sordell was pathetic even childish. His accepting attitude to not getting the Juke is a pretty good example of why he'll never succeed as a manager. He's a clown and a miserable wimp and the sooner he and Gartside are out of our club the better for all of us.
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Post by kazooki on Aug 6, 2014 21:52:58 GMT
I'm simply baffled at how you think his money management has been abysmal .. he's not had any money to manage!
This season he has spent .. zero
Since he has been here he has spent about £2.8m
He obviously builds players up publicly, trying to get the best out of them and then after a while realises they're stumps and gets rid.
Mears = shite
Andrews = shite
Alonso = had virtually already signed for Fiorentina when DF got here, his Dad (his agent) admitted it.
SKD = legend but past it needed to be moved on
Sordell = shite
He doesn't quit the job because the board won't spend and you say he'll never succeed as a manager? So if he quit that would make him a great manager?
I agree that there have been baffling decisions chopping and changing and maybe formation errors on occasion, but yet again we're taking a striker crisis thread and turning it into a let's bash DF thread.
I ask again, as I have in other DF bashing threads, if you can name any players that he can get for nothing or less than £1m that he should buy that will solve all our problems then please share? Any?
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Post by kazooki on Aug 6, 2014 22:06:31 GMT
.. and I should add.
The sale of Sordell has seen the first time since we sold Gary Cahill to Chelsea that we actually got a transfer fee for one of our players!
That's where the main problem has been, the legacy he inherited was worthless.
The players he inherited were worthless. You might say that CYL, Davies etc are not worthless .. not seen any bids for them have you??
There is no way to bring in funds in order to buy players, the only way is to give them away for nothing, remove their high salaries in order to bring in journeymen who might fight for the cause.
Or, we turn to the bank of ED and obviously he's not in the mood for pouring more money in.
How can any manager work under those conditions and not make mistakes?
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Post by riochforthereebok on Aug 6, 2014 23:23:48 GMT
This was all a ply from me to get BTiD back on here to give his two penneth
And it worked... Welcome back BTiD
Kaz, your very quick to protect DF whenever anyone has a pop at him. He's been here 2 years and done nowt under the watchful eye of the parasite PG, one paper today has him first for the chop. I simply want what's best for Bolton Wanderers as we all do and I've longed for DF to succeed, I had too, he was given the job, so I had to back him. But come on, patience has worn beyond thin now, I'm giving him 6 games to sort our season out and I'll back him like I backed Wright, McGovern, Neal, Rioch,McFarland, Todd, Lee, Mugson, I just wish you'd stop bleating on that he's had no money to spend. If he did, I wouldn't want him to spend it as I don't trust his eye for talent, otherwise we wouldn't be in the mess we're in
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Post by kazooki on Aug 7, 2014 0:39:54 GMT
I only protect when I see some injustice. You don't see me defending his team selections or tactics, in the main I agree with what many others have said on those counts. I really want to see us battle through this, I want to go back to the Rioch/Todd days were we bring on players plucked from the youth or obscure teams like the Stubbs, Thompsons and McAteers and I thought that just maybe DF and the way he's trying to get rid of the money grabbers and primadonnas and instead bringing in journeymen who get stuck in and play for the team might be the way forward. But that kindof thing takes time, 2 or 3 seasons at least to offload players at the end of their contracts. So I'm prepared to defend him for this and this reason alone. Maybe he isn't the right guy, maybe he will get sacked this season, but the next guy will have so much to thank him for if he does go. 5 days to go .. COYW |
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Post by whitesince63 on Aug 7, 2014 3:23:01 GMT
Kaz, you quote all those players as being shite, yet other managers seem to want them and early days or not seem to be getting more from them than Freedman. As for his money management, given how sparse that has been surely it would have been better to use the highly paid players on our books like Mears, Sordell and Andrews, who personally I don't think are "shite" rather than pay them but not play them. I understand we didn't completely cover wages on the loanees such as Sordell and Andrews but we still brought in at a cost replacements who frankly were shite. I don't disagree he's been limited, he tells us often enough, but he's got nothing out of what he has got except crap football and ridiculous tactical decisions. Look, the season's nearly on us now so we'll soon see one way or the other. To me he's shite and the sooner gone the better and I don't think he'll prove me wrong.
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Post by BWFCTILIDIE on Aug 7, 2014 6:17:27 GMT
You're completely right in everything you say Kaz but you're hitting a brick wall on this forum mate. Common sense and realism just doesn't apply.....
just remember....... Even shit pies at the macbok are Dougies fault
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Post by megsontilidie on Aug 7, 2014 10:13:27 GMT
.. and I should add. The sale of Sordell has seen the first time since we sold Gary Cahill to Chelsea that we actually got a transfer fee for one of our players! That's where the main problem has been, the legacy he inherited was worthless. The players he inherited were worthless. You might say that CYL, Davies etc are not worthless .. not seen any bids for them have you?? There is no way to bring in funds in order to buy players, the only way is to give them away for nothing, remove their high salaries in order to bring in journeymen who might fight for the cause. Or, we turn to the bank of ED and obviously he's not in the mood for pouring more money in. How can any manager work under those conditions and not make mistakes? some good comebacks there Kaz, . generally the player recruitment hasn't been too bad. it's the man management, tactics/football philosophy & team selection that are my biggest gripes. but in answer to your last question..get the answer from DF himself trottersforever.freeforums.net/thread/161/says-budget-generous-create-successfulhe was brought in because he could work with tight budgets and bring in youth. 50% to 75% of ch'ship teams are packed full of loan players whether it be Connor Wickham at sheff wed etc Chalobah at forest & boro. will keane at wigan, jesse lingaard at Brum, Nick Powell at wigan one of the problems with Dougie in this area is he doesn't seem to have any big name contacts. he's a first class nobody. even Coyle had some good contacts from his various bigging up and brown tongueing of opposition managers..... AVB etc for cahill sale, sturridge... Wenger for wilshere, miyaichi & afobe. boyata & weiss from Citeh. you can argue about the impact of some of those but getting the top 4 talent in the ch'ship has bigger impact because they might not be up to the PL but chances are they can do something in this lge. Derby had Wisdom from Liv, Thorne from w brom, dawkins from spurs, Bamford from chelsea. Bamford was previously on loan at mk dons. too many bwfc fans ( not necess on this forum ) just seem to think " we're having to resort to loans..we didn't do this in the past..therefore we can't compete " i say... utter rubbish... get your head out of your backside..look around you at other clubs. see that they are all loaning like mad. look at the positives of loans. if they fail you're not committed to paying them wages for years..send them back early..if they do well you have a good chance of snapping them up. Juke probably would have come here if he hadn't got a PL chance. Spearing did come here. Feeney & Danns both came after loans. even yeovil last yr were getting loans from man utd.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Lawrencetodd kane from chelsea went to blackburn en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Kaneen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Keane_(footballer_born_1993)man utd defender michael keane went to blackburn too that's blackburn ...that calamity venkys club that the media have yet again gone very quiet about. they're a calamity yet routinely seem to be well above us in the table..so what does that make us. a year or so ago, it was how can any manager possibly work under those circumstances. btw, if Andrews is as bad as you say, it's funny how he always goes to a club that finish higher than us in the league. but i've no massive objections to him going. he was probably on fairly big wages . |
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Post by kazooki on Aug 7, 2014 12:00:12 GMT
I agree, loans have on occasion been kind to us and other clubs seem to be doing well in the loan market feeding from the dregs of the Premier League clubs, and yes, we have done well in the past .. but in the past when we did well with loans we were a Premiership side paying Premiership wages. You can bet the wages of Wiltshire and Sturridge didn't come cheap.
When teams loan their players out to us their wages (or a high portion of them) then become the responsibility of BWFC. Given that the players you mention are Premier League players, it stands to reason that they will likely be higher paid than probably all our current squad.
According to the accounts the wage bill of BWFC in the 2012/13 season was £37.4m .. that was the highest in the Championship.
If he has a remit to get the wage bill down and get rid of the high earners, how can he then approach top Premier League clubs and pay out equal or more money in wages than he has just got rid of?? That's just nonsense. It cannot happen, and that I guess is why he is approaching lower Premier League clubs like Palace, Cardiff and to some extent Southampton and equally lower placed Championship clubs like Middlesborough and Millwall - because that's all we can afford!
It's a short term fix .. but just because they are loans does not mean they are free.
How can any manager work under those conditions and not make mistakes?
Yes, but not in one season surely?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 12:49:06 GMT
This debate will run and run there are a lot of good points being raised at the moment but the main point is you can't eat at the top table without the funds and backing to keep you there. There are enough clubs around that have tried to stay at the top and they have failed, so at the moment I am ok with us being in the championship IF we get the rewards and not get relegated.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Aug 7, 2014 13:08:49 GMT
When Freedman was appointed as manager this was what he said :
"But a statement on Bolton's official website announced the appointment.
Freedman said: "I am delighted to join Bolton. The club is geared up to getting back into the Premier League. There is an impressive set-up and structure in place, and a first team squad of undoubted quality. I am excited about the challenge ahead of us."
What has happened to the impressive set-up and structure?.........he has dismantled it and changed it all
What has happened to the first team squad of undoubted quality?........some who he would have got rid of, b4 the start of last season, (Mills and Ream, who he was touting about, have now become main stays...where would we have been if he had had his wish and they had gone??), most of the rest he has got rid of. Some he steadfastly refused to play (Mears, Sordell, Andrews) some he talked up, then cast them aside (Eagles ...I am going to build my team around him),
Then there are the players he actually signed himself e.g. Cravies who he wants rid of...a player he signed because he was just the type of player he wanted in his team
I am glad he was excited about the challenge ahead.......because the only challenge I can ever see us having, is staying in this division, not because of promotion but relegation.
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