|
Post by megsontilidie on Aug 7, 2014 13:50:12 GMT
I agree, loans have on occasion been kind to us and other clubs seem to be doing well in the loan market feeding from the dregs of the Premier League clubs, and yes, we have done well in the past .. but in the past when we did well with loans we were a Premiership side paying Premiership wages. You can bet the wages of Wiltshire and Sturridge didn't come cheap. When teams loan their players out to us their wages (or a high portion of them) then become the responsibility of BWFC. Given that the players you mention are Premier League players, it stands to reason that they will likely be higher paid than probably all our current squad. According to the accounts the wage bill of BWFC in the 2012/13 season was £37.4m .. that was the highest in the Championship. If he has a remit to get the wage bill down and get rid of the high earners, how can he then approach top Premier League clubs and pay out equal or more money in wages than he has just got rid of?? That's just nonsense. It cannot happen, and that I guess is why he is approaching lower Premier League clubs like Palace, Cardiff and to some extent Southampton and equally lower placed Championship clubs like Middlesborough and Millwall - because that's all we can afford! It's a short term fix .. but just because they are loans does not mean they are free. How can any manager work under those conditions and not make mistakes? Yes, but not in one season surely? largely what you're saying is true. but you're failing to engage with points that sneak into gaps in your argument. Yeovil ..yes Yeovil got players from man utd they don't have big crowds or pay high wages. blackburn also had high wages & debts in the past & must be making cuts, and they are getting some decent players. we're offering some very cushy 3 yr contracts to the likes of Trotter, Moxey, Feeney etc.. i've said in a thread before the average wage at bwfc is approx 10k a week..meaning half a mill per season. if you give 1 or 2 yr deals instead of 3, you keep the players on their toes, and save cash . you can always extend contracts early if they're doing good. i've heard several interviews with Karl Oyston on radio this week. you'd think given the media hype he would come across as some absolute barmpot..Vincent Tan style. but to my surprise he didn't . he sounded very measured, logical & clearly with a plan to do things a different way. they have zero debt and want to take advantage of other clubs struggling thru FFP. he has his players paid by the minute, with bonuses & simply doesn't want to pay them on big salaries in the off season for doing nowt. someone like Mears would have no incentive to hang around there ! 80% of what he's doing is great IMO. i just wonder if he's just pushing it a tad to far and it might backfire on him.
|
|
|
Post by kazooki on Aug 7, 2014 14:59:41 GMT
feck .. just typed a reply and managed to close the window!! arrggghhh!
Anyway, was saying that Yeovil came bottom of the division and got relegated, doesn't really say much for their players or the loans they brought in.
Blackburn are probably being bank-rolled by Venkys like Fulham are being bank-rolled by their owner, £11m for a Championship striker??
We have an owner who now has no incentive to plow any more money into the club other than him being a fan, if he gave £10m tomorrow he likely wouldn't get a penny back so we gotta rely on income generated by sales or the cutting/culling of wages. He gets no positive recognition and the only mention he normally gets is as a kettle obsessed freak who, teamed with Gartside is the sole reason we are were we are. So why should he bother?
I don't know what Trotter, Feeney and Moxey are earning so can't really comment on that .. you sound like you know, care to share?
|
|
|
Post by megsontilidie on Aug 7, 2014 15:31:17 GMT
feck .. just typed a reply and managed to close the window!! arrggghhh! Anyway, was saying that Yeovil came bottom of the division and got relegated, doesn't really say much for their players or the loans they brought in. Blackburn are probably being bank-rolled by Venkys like Fulham are being bank-rolled by their owner, £11m for a Championship striker?? We have an owner who now has no incentive to plow any more money into the club other than him being a fan, if he gave £10m tomorrow he likely wouldn't get a penny back so we gotta rely on income generated by sales or the cutting/culling of wages. He gets no positive recognition and the only mention he normally gets is as a kettle obsessed freak who, teamed with Gartside is the sole reason we are were we are. So why should he bother? I don't know what Trotter, Feeney and Moxey are earning so can't really comment on that .. you sound like you know, care to share? you can't blame individual players for a team on a tiny budget for getting relegated. Roy Keane got relegated at Forest, and instantly gained a move to man u. Fulham are doing big spend while they have parachute money. Blackburn can't do that as with their chute money dropping like ours, they'll be trimming too to fit in with FFP, but are still classed as a better bet than us to go up. its still a risk for Mccormack he's 28 soon. good as he did last season, his goal tally in last 4 seasons read 2,18,5 ,28. consistency issues ? as for the wage levels, i read it on Alan Nixon's twitter a month or so back ..a band of approx 8k to 12k per week. www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2531603/Bolton-financial-trouble-Championship-strugglers-announce-crippling-debts-163-8m.htmlthis article says spearing is on 25k and beckford 20k. i seem to remember Nixon saying Beckford's was over-stated there ( not sure if JS' s was) but if you shave off 5k, you're probably not far wrong for him ). but Nixon said more recent deals are lower..in that band stated above.
|
|
|
Post by realtrottersforever on Aug 8, 2014 10:35:24 GMT
|
|
|
Post by megsontilidie on Aug 8, 2014 11:00:08 GMT
a sky sports journo 3 hr's ago said this :
"Striker Joe Mason is set to sign a new deal at Cardiff and then join Bolton on loan. #Cardiffcity #bwfc".
good ol' BN..lol. plenty other speculation on twitter saying he's coming but you never know whether these are all independently getting info, which then becomes stronger as they all verify each other, or all just copying..obviously a lot of the latter on twitter. but the sky bloke is a good source, so seems 80%+ sure he's coming here
|
|
|
Post by riochforthereebok on Aug 8, 2014 11:31:59 GMT
Not only have the BN lost the forum, they've also lost the plot. If JM does sign, the BN online quotes DF as saying he's going to have to look elsewhere!!! Or is that just paper talk?? Oh I'm confused.....
|
|
|
Post by surreywhite on Aug 8, 2014 21:20:32 GMT
TBH unless you get a target man striker to accompany him, what's the use of getting Mason anyway... Practically every BWFC fan didn't want him back for a second loan spell after his poor first efforts, but now he seems to be up there with messiah status for some after the second spell.... It's no coincidence that his best performances came playing alongside or just behind a big man... Right now we don't have a target man that Mr Freedman is prepared to play, so there's every possibility we'd be back where we started with young joe.... No objection to having him if you have the players and formation to use him with/in.. Right now we have neither either due to the lack of suitable players or the stubbornness of our great leader!
|
|
|
Post by BWFCTILIDIE on Aug 9, 2014 6:41:45 GMT
Jigsaw Surrey, one piece at a time.... Completely agree but who's to say he's not got someone else lined up to fit the bill dependent on mason signing ?
I don't rate mason personally, I think he's too lightweight.
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Aug 9, 2014 8:10:54 GMT
Jigsaw Surrey, one piece at a time.... Completely agree but who's to say he's not got someone else lined up to fit the bill dependent on mason signing ? I don't rate mason personally, I think he's too lightweight. Yeehaaaw, for once BTID we agree, I think Mason's a little lightweight too and not what we need right now without a big man to play off.
|
|
|
Post by spanishjonny on Aug 9, 2014 8:39:44 GMT
Mason and Juke playing in front off what we've all ready got would have given us a bit of hope,but that boat has long sailed! A bad start like last season will kill us
|
|
|
Post by surreywhite on Aug 9, 2014 10:49:34 GMT
Jigsaw Surrey, one piece at a time.... Completely agree but who's to say he's not got someone else lined up to fit the bill dependent on mason signing ? I don't rate mason personally, I think he's too lightweight. Agee it needs to be one piece at a time, I suppose what I'm getting at is that I'd only want to sign him if there is definitely a big front man lined up as well, if we end up with mason and no front man, we're a bit knackered, do it the other way round eg find a front man then get mason if still available, if he isn't, there are more of his ilk around - we know there is a lack of front men around hence our eggs were all in the juke basket - So if you can't get the front man, then target someone who doesn't need one instead....
|
|
|
Post by realtrottersforever on Aug 9, 2014 11:04:14 GMT
I agree SW , but if we did manage to sign a big front man, would we then need Mason (apart from giving DF options) because we have Beckford who should be able to play off that type of a player. But as we know DF generally sticks with the players he's most recently signed. Before we had Beckford he played Cravies as soon as Becks appeared out went Cravies, when Mason appeared out went Becks, when the Juke and Mason were around back came the 2 up front. What would happen to his £1m signing Beckford?
|
|
|
Post by surreywhite on Aug 9, 2014 12:16:55 GMT
Very true RTF, though saying that, even played properly, I don't see JB getting more than 15 in a season at this level... We realistically need 4 first team strikers, currently in DF's head we def have 1, (JB) poss 2 (cd) but I don't think he sees Conor as first team yet, even though he wants to give youth a chance ?! Therefore we need 2 poss 3 attackers, 1 should be a target man, then it's a further Mason type player, we all know that DF goes for what he knows, you only have to look at our transfers, and tbf, if it comes down to an emergency 90 day loan, I'd rather have one that he won't waste 45 days of whilst getting him used to the squad!
|
|
|
Post by riochforthereebok on Aug 9, 2014 20:28:09 GMT
What we really need surrey, is a man who knows a bit about football!! Freedman at Palace was a bit of a lucky one season wonder. He didnt really turn Palace around, he got lucky having a couple of youg decent strikers Zaha and Murray, but look beyond that and I can guess that his dealings in the transfer market were as p155 poor as they are here. Gartside has made his biggest ever mistake in appointing Freedman alongside Lawrence and that Curtis chap, I only hope they have the gonads to admit they've hung on to him for too long and then get rid soon. I'd take Phil Brown or Chris Houghton or someone who can shout at his cack players and command the media with respect and that is not whimpy boy Dug If Bury beat us, that'll be just toooo much
|
|
|
Post by surreywhite on Aug 9, 2014 21:07:18 GMT
I'd agree with you to an extent, though at palace he also brought through players like Bolaise, jedinak, parr etc all who formed key parts of holloways promotion team and pulis's survival team, in fact his eye for a player I think is one of his better attributes, ok there has been your butterfields and trotters but in the main the raw players, danns, mcnaughton, juke etc have been ok...
The main problem in my opinion is once he has them he doesn't know how to use them to the best of their abilities or how to set them up with tactics and formations that suit the players... That is why I'd agree that we need someone who understands the game...
He does however have one major flaw in his transfer policy and that's the constant reliance on palace, Leicester and Cardiff for players.... He needs to broaden the net...
That said, I would have got rid in the summer to let a new man have a full window to work with... If we are going to get shot, it needs to be at the right time so that a new man gets a chance to look at what he's got but also doesn't need to wait too long before he can do something about it... I'd pick mid October now unless we are literally losing every game and have no other choice...
|
|