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Post by realtrottersforever on Jan 25, 2021 15:20:24 GMT
you can clearly see Evatt kept it fairly decent and restrained before the fist bump, but was still left hanging by this ref. feels odd backing him up. think i need to have a lie down & take my meds still perhaps stupid to get involved again after he'd initially walked away as he should've known there was no way to win here.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Jan 25, 2021 15:36:31 GMT
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Post by kenglowhite on Jan 25, 2021 16:03:09 GMT
Calling all those of a Corinthian persuasion. Do you think the FA had a representative at the game ?
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 25, 2021 16:37:13 GMT
Spoken like someone who was used to taking the flack as a referee, Andy, and of course I respect your viewpoint, though there are certainly two ways of looking at the refereeing performance. Where there is no dispute is in looking at the performance of our manager, and we seem to be in full agreement about him. It surprises me to read Whites 63's less than usual condemnation of a guy who is blatantly unable to organise a group of players, who though not usual BWFC standard, are capable, and at times show it, of being at least competitive in the basement league. Citing the embargo (due up in May) and "other restrictions" in no way impresses on me the need to show patience with the way Ian Evatt is handling team selection, selection omissions, substitutions, and expression of modus operandi, and inadequate loan signings (may be the reason for seeking a new chief scout). I know it's now a bit late, but if FV had been better advised, I think a better route upwards would have been to bring in a respected player-manager as they did when last we reached these depths. It may have taken a bigger financial gamble than the outlay on Evatt to bring in a sound central defender like Wes Morgan at Leicester and let him built up the central spine of the team with some of his pals persuaded to join. I know it didn't ncessarily work with Phil Neal and John McGovern, but with Jimmy Armfield they hit the jackpot. We will just have to disagree on Evatt then W63 as I think KenGlo sums his inadequacies up perfectly He’s not a strong leader and his after match comments are a disgrace. We’ve had enough to contend with since ED PG KA DH and the managers under them since our fall from grace in 2012 without the need for Evatt to drag us into the gutter even further. At the very least, FV must update us on a plan to get Bolton Wanderers Football Club going again as it seems to me that the pandemic has not only affected fan attendance but also the Jewel in the Crown, the Hotel Actually rftr, I don’t think we disagree on much regarding Evatt, as I said to Kenglo, I’m not defending some of the things he’s done like team selections and favouritism of a few but equally, I don’t personally blame him for the inadequacies of others like Delaney on Saturday, who was just woeful from the start. I could have blamed him for not substituting him but then what options did he have on the bench? In fact I think inadvertently, Kenglo made my point for me by saying that these players are capable “at times” of showing it. That’s exactly my point. There is no consistency in the players we have. Look at Santos, one minute best thing since sliced bread, then the next absolutely awful. Gnahoua looks great in twenty minute cameos but we’ve seen him over 90 minutes and he was like a headless chicken. Sadly this is the standard of player Evatt is saddled with and let’s be really honest, other than Doyle and potentially Darcy and Thomason, which players would you fight to keep out of our entire squad? They’re all so inconsistent, even in the same game one half to the next. You tell me how you would manage that if you had people at work who no matter how many times you discussed things with them, continued to let you down? Unfortunately, Evatt can’t sack them, he has to play them like it or not and then talk about it. Give the guy some credit for at least trying to get a tune out of them. I admire him for still believing and working towards promotion this year, despite what we’ve seen and if he really can land a quality striker this month, I still think it’s possible, albeit unlikely. We can talk about it all we like but I don’t think there’s any chance at all of IE being sacked, unless we really are in danger of relegation, which I don’t, so surely it’s best to think positively, difficult as it is and hope that Evatt can turn things round from now on and at least build a base for next year when he will have a much better hand to deal with than this season.
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Post by kenglowhite on Jan 25, 2021 16:55:11 GMT
I blame him on Delaney, 63. For too long that poor guy has had to shoulder all the problems of left defence all on his own. Even on Saturday Greenidge was nowhere in sight. Throughout the season Delaney has won the ball without having anyone to pass out of defence to, hence his series of ineffective long balls. OK he was responsible with a poor clearance for the first goal,though there are claims of Jackson's absence. but as I have said I have doubts about the penalty, NOT so far convinced, and so far as the second yellow is concerned can anyone say that he went up to clout Vaughan as opposed to the usual Sky commentators' excuse "leverage"? So far as the ref. is concerned see story re exoneration of Evatt.
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 25, 2021 18:27:07 GMT
I can’t disagree on Delaney being exposed on the left Kenglo but many times when he receives the ball he is just static, looking to launch the ball forward, despite having acres of space in front of him to run into. In fairness, he isn’t alone in that, I’ve mentioned before that most of our players do the same and just look to pass instead of moving forward with the ball then passing. I don’t know whether this is because of Evatt’s policy to do that, or just the players not having the confidence to go forward. I suspect it has something to do with the sideways passing Evatt espouses but can’t be sure. I think though, that blaming Delaneys poor play on other players is overly generous. He’s been poor and never worse than on Saturday and his pathetic attempts, both for the first goal and the penalty, are entirely down to his poor and clumsy play in my opinion.
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Post by kenglowhite on Jan 25, 2021 19:18:23 GMT
Yes, he is a victim of the system, but he is one of the few wholehearted players in the team, and I would have liked to see him with a proper left back. Going forward into acres of space as you suggest would leave him open to the acres of space in our midfield and the acres of space into which our opponents regularly break. I don't think the word "pathetic" could ever describe Delaney, but in some games he has suffered enough to describe your word "poor" but far from being his fault, I believe. All that criticism by you of a wholehearted player, yet I see you are defending the indefensible Evatt, who has virtually killed off all our home-grown players, agreed with the shutting down of reserve-team football ,in which players should be strutting their stuff, and shown the most inconsistent team selection and substitutions I have ever witnessed. Are you happy now that our captain seems to have given up, that we still don't have a goalkeeper, or the auxilliary striker you have said is necessary, nor the defensive midfielder that I feel is a prerogative, and that Kioso evidently prefers to play elsewhere, while the window closes in less than a week?
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 25, 2021 20:19:55 GMT
I can’t disagree with most of that Kenglo, it’s a bag of nails that’s true. I have to concede that at least Delaney does put 100% effort in, I can’t fault him for that and you may be right it is other players weaknesses that are making him look worse than necessary but his errors recently have just been careless, thoughtless and sloppy and led to goals. In an ideal world I wouldn’t have either Delaney or Santos at centre half, I’m convinced Santos should play ahead of the back four in a Campo type role. I can’t even argue with your criticism of Evatt and his treatment of our young players but to be fair, he sees them through the week and I’m not sure it was his decision to do away with the U23 side, I think that would have been further up the command chain. I’m not happy with what I see from Evatt but I can empathise with the poor quality he’s having to work with and can only hope that he can still bring in at least another striker before the deadline. Any more than that I think we might have to wait until next season for when better players become available in the summer and we can at least bid for what we want again.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Jan 26, 2021 20:05:56 GMT
whilst this is quite impressive, there's a negative side too. we've still had to cut thru' 2 banks of 4 with the last 2 or 3 passes. all the passes up to that point didn't actually get past anyone in a sense..might have done temporarily. nice to be able to play this way, but you need to be able to turn defenders...get in behind and cut through a bit quicker too. force errors....
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Post by OohMac on Jan 26, 2021 22:53:10 GMT
I dunno. Yeah in that context it looks like a great back to front 16 pass move. In reality was we gifted that space by them having a 2 goal buffer? Did we really make them move out of shape and then hit them or was it not a lot of samey passes with a lucky break which we might have got same result from pass 3?
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 27, 2021 9:05:33 GMT
A little harsh OM, it was a patient build up looking for an opening. Yes we were a little fortunate at one point but other than that I think you have to give the team credit. One point I would make is that yet again the move was started by Santos taking the ball forward into midfield and all the time looking for a man to pass to, which he usually does accurately. Contrast that with Delaney, who when he receives the ball is generally static, even with space in front of him, then gets closed down and just punts the ball anywhere and to nobody in particular but usually the opposition. I genuinely feel that with his size, pace and skill Santos should be in front of a back four in a Campo type role. Not only would it stiffen midfield but also tighten the defence.
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Post by kenglowhite on Jan 27, 2021 11:23:46 GMT
That referee.....is he really from the Mike Riley school of unrefereeing - Or was it just a BAD HAIR day ?
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 27, 2021 13:11:39 GMT
D’ohh 🥳
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Post by OohMac on Jan 27, 2021 22:52:58 GMT
A little harsh OM, it was a patient build up looking for an opening. Yes we were a little fortunate at one point but other than that I think you have to give the team credit. One point I would make is that yet again the move was started by Santos taking the ball forward into midfield and all the time looking for a man to pass to, which he usually does accurately. Contrast that with Delaney, who when he receives the ball is generally static, even with space in front of him, then gets closed down and just punts the ball anywhere and to nobody in particular but usually the opposition. I genuinely feel that with his size, pace and skill Santos should be in front of a back four in a Campo type role. Not only would it stiffen midfield but also tighten the defence. Maybe but point really is we seem to do this at 2 and 3 down but never at 0-0. So has to be a case where opponents let us do what we want because of research or just game management because they know we usually hoard possession with very little result.
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 28, 2021 10:27:05 GMT
Very true OM, opposition managers know exactly how we’re going to play from the start and set up to profit from it. This ridiculous passing to Santos or Delaney on our 6 yard box is just madness, it just allows the opposition to compress us. If we did that to allow us to draw them in and then expose them with quick breaks, I could perhaps understand it, but we don’t, we fanny about with the ball slowly passing sideways to keep possession because that seems to be the Evatt mantra. It’s no surprise then that we concede early and have to chase the game. Like you I’d rather see us attack from the off, quickly and decisively instead of this laborious, tedious keeping possession and getting nowhere. The frustrating thing is that we do have the players to do it but I’m convinced it’s trained out of them for this possession at all costs system. Maybe that’s why the likes of Darcy and Hickman don’t get in because they want to get forward quickly? I’m still behind Evatt but it’s getting so, so difficult to understand his thinking.
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