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Post by realtrottersforever on Jan 24, 2021 16:40:07 GMT
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Clough#Managerial_statisticsNigel Clough win % 58.8%. he inherited a squad with the worst start to a season for 106 YEARS . details on the previous Mansfield thread -1st November preview post for the home game 3/11. I posted the bookies odd for their next manager on that thread, as they had just sacked their previous guy, and had a caretaker in. I did say the names were better than i'd have imagined, and Clough was among those i'd have took. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%9321_Mansfield_Town_F.C._season#EFL_League_Twonow they are on 5 straight league wins. he didn't need time. he didn't need a load of his own players bringing in. doubt he'd have come here. doesn't tend to like to uproot his family out of the East Mids. 1st game in charge...away at Forest Green. 14/11. that was there 12th game of the season. previous 11. won none. now in his 13 games. just 2 league defeats.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Jan 24, 2021 17:12:42 GMT
backing up my earlier post with a few extra details. still think Jackson takes the bulk of the blame.
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 24, 2021 17:37:34 GMT
No, sorry OM can’t go with any of that. Evatt has his beliefs and bringing someone in, whoever it is, with different views will just cause controversy and won’t work. When you’re a manager, you are given the company outlook and you set out your plan how you intend to achieve it. Once that’s agreed you apply it and are judged by it. The last thing you need is a more senior manager over ruling you with their ideas and then criticising when you fail. FV have just shown their confidence in IE by removing TP and making IE manager and totally in control. He’s even been given responsibility for setting up our future scouting network, so they’re unlikely to remove him until he’s proved to have failed. What proven failure is to FV, I’m not sure. I’m sure it was promotion initially but I suspect expectations have now been reset to finishing strongly with a base for next year when most restrictions have been removed. I still think that if IE can pull a rabbit out of the hat up front, we can still finish strongly and even sneak into the play offs, no matter how unlikely it looks now. Fortunes can change quickly because the level in this league is so poor. I’m getting behind IE and FV and will still be renewing my ST next year as long as we aren’t relegated. That really would be a step too far but I seriously don’t expect that to anywhere near happen.
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 24, 2021 17:47:56 GMT
backing up my earlier post with a few extra details. still think Jackson takes the bulk of the blame. Agree entirely about Jackson being too far up the pitch rtf but when he lost the ball he should have wasted no time getting back into position, yet just stayed static. To make things worse he completely ignored the position of Feeney who had all the space in the world. I can’t seriously blame Crawford because would never have closed down enough but Delaneys attempt to clear was pathetic and so blame for the goal goes to him for me. I fully accept that we need two full backs who stay in position instead of bombing forward which just leaves us totally exposed. This has happened so many times I can’t believe Evatt hasn’t ensured that at least if a wingback does get forward, the position is covered from midfield. Just common sense. Personally I’d bin the wing back bit until we’re more secure.
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Post by OohMac on Jan 24, 2021 18:20:39 GMT
No, sorry OM can’t go with any of that. Evatt has his beliefs and bringing someone in, whoever it is, with different views will just cause controversy and won’t work. When you’re a manager, you are given the company outlook and you set out your plan how you intend to achieve it. Once that’s agreed you apply it and are judged by it. The last thing you need is a more senior manager over ruling you with their ideas and then criticising when you fail. FV have just shown their confidence in IE by removing TP and making IE manager and totally in control. He’s even been given responsibility for setting up our future scouting network, so they’re unlikely to remove him until he’s proved to have failed. What proven failure is to FV, I’m not sure. I’m sure it was promotion initially but I suspect expectations have now been reset to finishing strongly with a base for next year when most restrictions have been removed. I still think that if IE can pull a rabbit out of the hat up front, we can still finish strongly and even sneak into the play offs, no matter how unlikely it looks now. Fortunes can change quickly because the level in this league is so poor. I’m getting behind IE and FV and will still be renewing my ST next year as long as we aren’t relegated. That really would be a step too far but I seriously don’t expect that to anywhere near happen. Fair enough but we are going backwards and not forwards and we simply cant go further down so if its Evatts way of the highway its M61, M6 back to cumbria. I just think IE clearly wants to be a top manager but has so much learning still to do. We have a tough run in now(I say tough, its league bloody two) how close to the relegation do we get before we change it? In regards to the analysis. Its not great that the two loan players (thought you had to prove yourself in training by the way?) But the fact is Feeneys cross, as we should know, was a nothing ball. No real fizz on it, no deception just a ball rolled in. 3 mins into a game Delaney just stick that near row z.
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 24, 2021 21:55:11 GMT
I just think it’s difficult to judge Evatt too harshly with this bunch of players OM. Virtually all the goals we are conceding are down to stupid and elementary errors. Is this Evatt’s fault or the fault of players who aren’t fit to wear the shirt? Yes, I think Evatt has made mistakes but we can all be armchair managers. In fact the team he started with against Tranmere was probably the team I would have picked other than Thomason for Crawford. Having said that, Crawford should be on the team sheet but the fact is he’s been a shadow of the player he was last year. As for Delaney, I think his performances recently have been dreadful with yesterday unarguably being the worst. He can’t play on Tuesday thankfully but with Taft going to Scunny, it probably means we have only Greenidge as a left footed replacement. I hope he doesn’t draft Baptiste in again or else I fear the worst. Gnahoua is an impact sub, I agree with Evatt on that but I’d prefer him to have that impact at the start not when we’re chasing the game. Played instead of Isgrove who I have no time for I’m sure he’d give us a real threat next to Doyle. Whatever happens, I think we have to give Evatt next season when he has his own side and can recruit free of embargo. I actually think we can win tomorrow because I don’t think there’s a good side in this league, 5 wins on the trot or not I include Mansfield. I don’t believe any manager would get a tune out of this bunch consistently so I don’t put all the blame on Evatt and believe he will get it right because as you say, he sees himself becoming a top manager and only time will tell if he will.
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Post by OohMac on Jan 24, 2021 22:07:44 GMT
We paid Barrow a fair sum to get Evatt here. I'm sick of hearing managers moan about how it is here. Do some due diligence. You know were under embargo, you know were in a salary cap. IE knows he was working with Phoenix.
Stop moaning. Get on with it.
As ive said before. Start of the season if we need to sell a player to turnover our biggest asset is Darcy. Evatt would prefer to loan a no hoper from Lincoln.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Jan 24, 2021 23:00:23 GMT
Way I see it, we are almost equidistant between the Play-Offs and relegation and the way our inconsistent manager has us approaching games, there appears to be no chance of us climbing the table under his leadership Only an eternal optimist would see us get into the play-offs, let alone promotion and but for the terribly woeful Southend and Grimsby offering worse fare than the mighty Trotters, only a realist will believe we are not too big to drop into non league obscurity We are NOT too big to go down What if the unthinkable happened? ? It is time to sack Ian Evatt before it’s too late, anyone that knows football could do a better job than him, he’s totally useless and NOT a Wanderer Mansfield will beat us and he’ll still get sent off from the stands and blame everyone and say “anyone watching that can see that we didn’t deserve to lose” Times up Evatt⏰⏰⏰⏰
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 25, 2021 10:25:46 GMT
That’s unfair rftr. No other manager is facing the restrictions Evatt is. I’m not defending Evatt but we have to be realistic. We have too many really poor players because of those restrictions who continue to make mistakes, which to be fair, you can’t blame Evatt for. I don’t blame him for trying to stick to the system he believes in, despite some of the players not being able to properly play it, because I don’t believe he needs to for us to stay up. The simple fact is, that we aren’t in a position to recruit really good players due to the embargo’s were still under. No manager would be able to overcome that. Next season when those things don’t apply, I’m sure Evatt will bring in better players who are more consistent and committed. Until then I’m just going to have to accept mediocre, inconsistent performances but I’m still confident that we have more than enough to at least stay up this year ready for a better push next season.
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BL2
Squad Player
Posts: 69
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Post by BL2 on Jan 25, 2021 11:57:40 GMT
but for the terribly woeful Southend and Grimsby offering worse fare than the mighty Trotters, only a realist will believe we are not too big to drop into non league obscurity We are NOT too big to go down Agreed. We can't rely on there being 2 worse teams than us. Its worth noting that the "terribly woeful" Southend have picked up 7 points in their last 6 games. We've only managed 3.
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Post by andyl on Jan 25, 2021 13:34:32 GMT
Regarding today's referee. Yes, I would agree three or four incidents were open to conjecture, but why did they all go in favour of Tranmere ? When thinking of our players, and Evatt's selections, I know there are a lot of feelings against Delaney. I am actually a little sorry for him, because for most of the season he has been left to run the left hand side of defence completely on his own. He has been left to make long unconstructive clearances without much support and has generally been overworked. He has deserved some relief, and that is why I asked where Greenidge was today. Ian Evatt has a lot to learn about team management. And with the so called backing of Nick Mason, Keith Morris, Geoff Thomas and Michael James I would think FV may well have the necessary to make a change when they see fit. But did they? I have looked at Sarcevic's goal a number of times and it is very close to being offside. I think that at the point of pass he is ahead of the last man both relative to the defender alongside Doyle and the one who finishes up on the goal line, but it's close. I thought at first that Doyle pulled the ball back but again it's far from certain. Sometimes I think it's onside, sometimes off. Not a good angle of course. It might be one which with VAR would come down to a foot or arm placement. Since posting I have exchanged a text with another fan who generally defends BWFC managers to the last and in his view penalty was 100%, sending off of Delaney could have been straight red and that Sarcevic dived. I agree re the given penalty, think a red for Delaney would have been harsh but could not have been appealed and whilst at the time thinking Sarcevic was fouled would settle to an argument that it was questionable. I do think the referee should have restarted play after the clash of heads nearer to where the ball was when he blew but totally respect the wish to get the players' attention asap. Also it would have made precious little difference to the next phase. In passing I thought Monthe's first booking was a tad harsh but certainly silly on his part- some referees would just have let that one go or spoken with him But whatever the ins and outs of the various decisions the fact is that we lost again and yet again Evatt came off as an aggressive and not very intelligent figure who will have deserved his red card. At this moment in time and with the caveat that anyone can improve and learn, I think our default position ought not to be to criticise the referee who red-carded Evatt but to envy him.
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Post by kenglowhite on Jan 25, 2021 13:59:42 GMT
Spoken like someone who was used to taking the flack as a referee, Andy, and of course I respect your viewpoint, though there are certainly two ways of looking at the refereeing performance. Where there is no dispute is in looking at the performance of our manager, and we seem to be in full agreement about him. It surprises me to read Whites 63's less than usual condemnation of a guy who is blatantly unable to organise a group of players, who though not usual BWFC standard, are capable, and at times show it, of being at least competitive in the basement league. Citing the embargo (due up in May) and "other restrictions" in no way impresses on me the need to show patience with the way Ian Evatt is handling team selection, selection omissions, substitutions, and expression of modus operandi, and inadequate loan signings (may be the reason for seeking a new chief scout). I know it's now a bit late, but if FV had been better advised, I think a better route upwards would have been to bring in a respected player-manager as they did when last we reached these depths. It may have taken a bigger financial gamble than the outlay on Evatt to bring in a sound central defender like Wes Morgan at Leicester and let him built up the central spine of the team with some of his pals persuaded to join. I know it didn't ncessarily work with Phil Neal and John McGovern, but with Jimmy Armfield they hit the jackpot.
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Post by andyl on Jan 25, 2021 14:21:02 GMT
I never really understand why Phil Neal doesn't merit more praise. Firstly as a player you could tell he was on a superior wavelength to team mates but as a manager for the most part we moved forward, paving the way for the Rioch years. He stayed for a good few years, brought us the Sherpa Van-I think and I'd exchange most of our current squad for his if they could be rejuvenated. How good would Dean Crombie for example be in the current set up>
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Post by riochforthereebok on Jan 25, 2021 14:54:10 GMT
Spoken like someone who was used to taking the flack as a referee, Andy, and of course I respect your viewpoint, though there are certainly two ways of looking at the refereeing performance. Where there is no dispute is in looking at the performance of our manager, and we seem to be in full agreement about him. It surprises me to read Whites 63's less than usual condemnation of a guy who is blatantly unable to organise a group of players, who though not usual BWFC standard, are capable, and at times show it, of being at least competitive in the basement league. Citing the embargo (due up in May) and "other restrictions" in no way impresses on me the need to show patience with the way Ian Evatt is handling team selection, selection omissions, substitutions, and expression of modus operandi, and inadequate loan signings (may be the reason for seeking a new chief scout). I know it's now a bit late, but if FV had been better advised, I think a better route upwards would have been to bring in a respected player-manager as they did when last we reached these depths. It may have taken a bigger financial gamble than the outlay on Evatt to bring in a sound central defender like Wes Morgan at Leicester and let him built up the central spine of the team with some of his pals persuaded to join. I know it didn't ncessarily work with Phil Neal and John McGovern, but with Jimmy Armfield they hit the jackpot. We will just have to disagree on Evatt then W63 as I think KenGlo sums his inadequacies up perfectly He’s not a strong leader and his after match comments are a disgrace. We’ve had enough to contend with since ED PG KA DH and the managers under them since our fall from grace in 2012 without the need for Evatt to drag us into the gutter even further. At the very least, FV must update us on a plan to get Bolton Wanderers Football Club going again as it seems to me that the pandemic has not only affected fan attendance but also the Jewel in the Crown, the Hotel
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Post by realtrottersforever on Jan 25, 2021 14:59:55 GMT
www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2021/january/wanderers-manager-will-not-face-fa-charge/"However, the Football Association has decided not to take any action and Ian will be in the dugout for tomorrow evening’s game against Mansfield Town" for once Evatt proved right. hard to tell when he's lying as he talks so much rot.. boy who cried wolf. but i did notice the ref even refused his fist bump (unlike his lino right next to him) even before he made his point.
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