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Post by davidm on Jan 23, 2021 19:34:41 GMT
What is our manager talking about here? " We didn't deserve to lose that game, I think everyone can see that, but we have done again through a poor few minutes at the start of the game and in my view we've been let down by officials," said Evatt.
"But with 10 men we still dominated the ball, we had all the possession, created chances, it's just not going our way at the moment but we have to keep our heads down and keep fighting." - with 10 men we still dominated the ball?
- we had all the possession?
- created chances?
Where was this domination? All the possession? – maybe between Gilks and Santos and Baptiste etc but not attacking Created chances? For a 10 minute spell when we scored. Other than that, there was nothing.
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Post by OohMac on Jan 23, 2021 19:45:50 GMT
My thoughts now are FV call Ian Evatt into the office and offer him a place to step back and to work with a proper bona fide manager with a view of talking the reigns back in a year or two.
If that doesnt suit then its the P45 and tend to your garden because this club can't and shouldnt drop out of the league and with things getting worse not better we need to act.
So surely the former option suits everyone. Yes Ian gets hurt feelings for a few weeks. So what?
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Post by realtrottersforever on Jan 23, 2021 19:56:25 GMT
Sorry, fully respect andyl's wish to show Corinthian views and experience as ex-referee, but have to agree with Evatt's opinions here, though not supporting him as team manager. Take the penalty - did Feeney manage or not to complete a good shot, which Gilks saved brilliantly, after Delaney's alleged penalty foul ? Did Delaney set out to foul Vaughan in their headed duel ? That's open to conjecture. Did Monthe seek to foul Sarcevic when potentially clean through on goal for the equaliser? I think yes. On balance I would definitely say our team got the wrong side of the refereeing coin today. However, I would also say that this afternoon there was another team there for the taking with a competent Bolton team performance. The little boys on Bolton FM picked up the recent Evatt comments about consistency, but the word should really be COMPETENCE, and we showed little of that in the first half, as we always lost 50-50 balls, passed sideways when we should have run forward, were useless with the ball in the air. Remember how few attacks the opposition made during the whole game, and our manager doesn't know how to take advantage of that. I'm with you on this Kenglo. not rating Evatt and sticking up for him a little bit here aren't mutually exclusive. fair's fair. i'm not one to rush to his defence. i'm also not one to routinely blame refs. I accept Andy's implicit logic which is probably that Evatt will over-use it as an excuse... he'll focus on the uncontrollabes & ignore the controllables as is his wont. I know Sarce is a master at winning at cheap free kicks ,but Monthe already has a yellow, Sarce is getting the better of him, and yet Monthes hands are all over him. i'll have another look at the pen. looked like a coming together to me. heard Evatt's interview on Bolton fm. yet again he managed to come out with his ridiculous line about ..we dictated & dominated the game .
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Post by andyl on Jan 23, 2021 19:58:56 GMT
I see now that Evatt red carded at the end of the game. Shame
Re the penalty, indeed Feeney got a shot in and kept some sort of balance, but that's irrelevant. The referee could have played advantage and allowed the shot to stand had Gilks missed it and also could legitimately come back for the penalty if he missed. I'm not saying referee did this. He just gave the penalty because Delaney half way to ground clattered into Feeney after the ball had gone. In my opinion at the time and via the limitations of Ifollow foul anywhere on the field. I will watch it again tomorrow in case any extenuating circumstance.
I also think there is a chance Sarcevic was impeded and that the Tranmere defender should have had a second yellow. But nine times out of ten Sarcevic deliberately draws fouls and gets his fair share, often in my opinion not deserving some. There were actually a couple of innocuous examples where the referee didn't buy Sarcevic's trick. It's the trick of a slow player. We can be quite certain that Sarcevic was not about to speed away. We had no angle whatsoever on Ifollow, nor did Evatt from the dugout, although he would have been better placed than us and also maybe the referee because it was his side. We know however that Evatt harangues referees continuously and even moved the dugout at the Unibol just to be able to do so.
From limited view I thought it was a foul at the time and I also thought the player looked guilty but I would not be amazed if Sarcevic did his trademark fall at the slightest contact and the look was of bewilderment. But it will be interesting to see the replay.
Whatever the ins and outs of all this of all this the fact remains that against very average Keith Hill led opposition we wasted good possession and time by shotless meandering and sideways and backwards negativity and gave them two goals out of nothing when they had no other worthwhile attempts until late on when Gilks made a very good save. We had two gilt edged chances and missed them.
I would agree that we were arguably better than Tranmere and should have won but th fact remains that yet again we didn't and in my opinion we don't have too look very far for the root cause. The only mercy is that at Mansfield we wilkl have to look a bit further into the stand
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Post by andyl on Jan 23, 2021 20:17:41 GMT
The Sarcevic incident is difficult . I've watched it about twenty times. I'm about 70:30 thinking it's a foul. If it's a foul it's a straight red. I don't think Monthe has his arms round Sarcevic but he does probably lay hands on him and I don't think he held him back or made much contact. I'm sure Sarcevic leans in and goes to ground deliberately. It's his go to move. That said I think Monthe just might have trodden on the back of Sarcevic's ankle with his left foot and that just might be the clincher.. However the angles are distant and the picture fuzzy. Sarcevic was definitely clear, maybe even offside- that's close unless a near side player. I think nine times out of ten that foul would be given by the on field referee just on situation and appearance and the player red carded.
I wonder if VAR if active would have overturned a mistake- I don't think so personally, just not enough evidence
The one thing I can say with certainty is that Evatt could not have known and should act with more decorum.
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 23, 2021 21:29:48 GMT
The performance today was awful, there’s no getting away from that but the team Evatt started with was probably the one I would have picked, given that we haven’t much to choose from, other than I would certainly have found a place for Darcy. For me the problem with Evatt is that he just basically doesn’t have the players to play the system he wants to but doesn’t seem to have the humility to accept it and play to the strengths of what he does have. Where did this system of Gilks passing to a central defender on the 6 yard box come from? It’s absolute suicide, never creates opportunity and puts us immediately at risk with the result most times of hoofing the ball to anyone, usually the opposition. It’s totally futile and once again I’d make the point that when other teams keepers pass to a defender they receive the ball and run forward, whilst when we get it our players stop, stand still and look for a pass whilst being closed down. Same with our passing, it’s sideways, negative and leads nowhere. Is it just a coincidence that when we go behind, the players forget the sideways passing for ten minutes or so, get the ball forward quickly and look dangerous. Sadly this last only until we score, or nearly do before reverting back to the slow, slow negative stuff again, exactly as we did again today. I’m desperate to get behind Evatt but I genuinely fear for the first time, that we really could go down unless either Evatt changes, or FV make a change. Unfortunately, I don’t think FV can afford to pay Evatt off so I’m just hoping one way or another he can cobble enough points together to keep us up.
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Post by kenglowhite on Jan 23, 2021 23:25:15 GMT
Regarding today's referee. Yes, I would agree three or four incidents were open to conjecture, but why did they all go in favour of Tranmere ? When thinking of our players, and Evatt's selections, I know there are a lot of feelings against Delaney. I am actually a little sorry for him, because for most of the season he has been left to run the left hand side of defence completely on his own. He has been left to make long unconstructive clearances without much support and has generally been overworked. He has deserved some relief, and that is why I asked where Greenidge was today. Ian Evatt has a lot to learn about team management. And with the so called backing of Nick Mason, Keith Morris, Geoff Thomas and Michael James I would think FV may well have the necessary to make a change when they see fit.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Jan 23, 2021 23:30:20 GMT
just watched EFL highlights on Quest. didn't show Monthe incident. but 99.9% certain on that one anyway that he did pull him back.
did see Jackson was completely AWOL when Feeney put his cross in for first goal. you can't really see it in full from this vid..but you can get a sense of it just from amount of space Feeney has.
on pen conceded. yes can now see it was clumsy by Delaney. if he'd just aimed to block the shot, you could get away with saying it was a coming together, but you raise your leg that high and attempt a challenge ( and fail to win it) ..it's risky especially with that head on ( rather than side to side ) angle of challenge.
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Post by bonaparte on Jan 24, 2021 9:46:57 GMT
I had to wait until today to try and rationalise the game, I was so upset. The referee was not the best, but was not the main contributor to the loss, to blame him distracts from what was a another poor performance, and it was without doubt the manager. He has played 3 at the back most of the season and suddenly switches to 4, either Jackson and Jones are just full backs and cannot play wing back, or he doesn't believe that he has 3 competent centre backs. Whatever, confusion at the back, where we need consistency most, build from the back. It was clear from the start that the plan was to hump the ball to the front men ignoring the middle and Sarsovic (who I have frequently criticised) started well and showed the skills we thought he had early in the game. But our front men aren't big and seem to prefer balls to feet rather than head, Gnahoua should have started for me, he is big and puts himself around, if we play that style. As happens every week , Doyle has to go looking for the ball, and is not available in the box to utilise his best skill, scoring goals. He chose Crawford over Thomason, a further indicator to me that the long ball was to be the game, but Crawford, for the umpteenth time brought nothing to the party and should have gone at first change, not Elbouzedi (should have been Gnahoua) or Isgrove who was working well. As a result Spearing and Feeney ran the midfield, and they and Keith Hill laughed all the way to 3 points. Not funny for me, very sad. No point in scoring the players, played out of position, different formation, different players, no plan, we will be lucky not to be relegated. Watched Chorley on Friday, and Cheltenham last night, what a difference and a breath of fresh air.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Jan 24, 2021 10:52:43 GMT
www.bwfc.co.uk/ifollow/latest-videos/just looking into extended hi-lites at that Jackson error for the 1st goal. i'd hold him more culpable than Delaney. at least Delaney is there and tries. to be AWOL so early in a game. out of sight, out of mind ...out of blame . Jackson is following the eventual goal scorer (Lloyd) way into midfield.... as high as the top edge of centre circle. for what reason we don't know. high press completely vacating the left back spot. to compound it, he tracks Lloyd back to our area, but doesn't quite do that well enough either, because when the ball comes back from Delaney, Lloyd has got goal-side of him.
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 24, 2021 13:47:28 GMT
We can blame Evatt, we can blame the ref and we can blame the players but at the end of the day we have a rookie manager in charge of a bunch of second rate players. I don’t really think we can expect much from them really and I hope we can just avoid relegation and hope that next year with the embargo off we can sign a few proper players. The wage cap will still be a problem but hopefully Evatt will have learned something by then and the new players he signs might be at least capable of playing the system he wants. He isn’t going anywhere that’s for sure so we just have to hope that he isn’t as bad as he’s looking just now.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 14:15:56 GMT
We can blame Evatt, we can blame the ref and we can blame the players but at the end of the day we have a rookie manager in charge of a bunch of second rate players. I don’t really think we can expect much from them really Good summation whites, although Evatt had 8000 plus season ticket holders fooled at the start of the season. I never felt that we would be anything other than bordering on a 7th place, but even that looks distant at present. I think there's worse teams in this division than us, but never say never. Was Barrow a lucky punt? It appears that way, but time will tell the longer he stays at BWFC. One thing he is wrong on as he stated in the BN and that is 'the club sells itself'. Wrong, success sells the club and players would certainly look for a winning team with promotional prospects, rather than a club in the National League with a white elephant of a stadium. He needs to learn the football in this division better than he has. I can't remember who said that copying Barcelona and Leeds and then not knowing what to do when things go wrong, but they were right on the money. He should learn from BSA, it's results that count, especially for a manager. Look how happy we all were under Parkinson when we came back to beat Forest on the last day of the season and stayed up!
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Post by kenglowhite on Jan 24, 2021 14:53:31 GMT
Whites has suggested that FV lack financial resources, to which I expressed my belief that they are in fact supported by the bank accounts of four worthy gentlemen plus, of course, that of our chairman Sharon. Since in our angrier moments we all wish the position of Ian Evatt to be sanctioned, does anyone know for certain whether my assumptions(based on info at the time of the takeover) are correct, or if we are indeed running on empty and thus his position is secure ?
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 24, 2021 15:05:54 GMT
Sorry if I misled on the money side kenglo, I wasn’t meaning that FV didn’t have resources, just that they are severely limited by both embargo’s and the salary cap and since several of the players we don’t want are signed on for next year as well, their options are limited to bring in replacements. I don’t think they will seriously look to replace Evatt, I believe stability is essential and I don’t believe we are in real danger of relegation either. When you look at the last three games we could actually have won them all. We had the chances just didn’t take them.
That’s why I believe, however bad our defence is, one or preferably two new strikers would change everything. I’m a great believer in confidence and right now we don’t have much and it shows. Once we start (hopefully) winning, I believe we’ll see a different team. Everything’s going against us at the moment, form, luck, even refereeing decisions, but all that will change. I don’t want IE to revert to Parkys hoof ball, I want him to believe in his system and get it right. Once he does I think we’ll all feel very different.
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Post by OohMac on Jan 24, 2021 15:58:57 GMT
Whites has suggested that FV lack financial resources, to which I expressed my belief that they are in fact supported by the bank accounts of four worthy gentlemen plus, of course, that of our chairman Sharon. Since in our angrier moments we all wish the position of Ian Evatt to be sanctioned, does anyone know for certain whether my assumptions(based on info at the time of the takeover) are correct, or if we are indeed running on empty and thus his position is secure ? Dont claim to know that side. I dont doubt Nick Mason has money and lots of it but i really doubt he wants to throw a lot of that into the abyss that is non-premierleague football. I dont think theres a Steve Gibson/Jack Walker type among them. I cant imagine that for them paying £400K to simply remove a man from his job represents a good deal. I think FV really need to look at recent Evatt quotes about where he sees us and see if they agree that were not promotion hopefuls. I think they really need to look at and bring in an old hand like a Peter Reid maybe as a consultant and ask him to basically do an OFSTED report. Does the training look right? Does the coaching seem beneficial. Are the right practises in place and are we in Outstanding, Very Good or good hands or do is improvement needed. FV seem to know little about the actual football side. They remind me at the moment of a retired couple who dream of running a pub/restaurant because they need something to do and enjoy cooking a roast and enjoy a tipple. Got no experience and people are taking advantage. Get someone in who can tell them "no thats not right. Thats poor." Who knows they may even say "Ian Evatt is a genuine manager. His sessions are great and he has an eye for talent he needs a little bit more quality in the side but is worth sticking with" I cant see it. Said yesterday but feel the same. I would ask Holloway to come in. Evatt can dress it up as his choice, he goes back to head coach and does apprenticeship again. He stays in work and genuinely has a job at the end. A big job too. If he doesnt accept its sever ties and where does Evatt go? Back to Barrow? Back non league?
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