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Post by riochforthereebok on Nov 7, 2015 16:46:22 GMT
What's the truth Gartside???
We're dropping into League One anyway so what's another 12 point deficit gonna do to us??
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2015 19:05:51 GMT
What's the truth Gartside??? We're dropping into League One anyway so what's another 12 point deficit gonna do to us?? Sorry to disappoint you but cant be done so my accountant mate says ,what can happen is go bust (unlikely) or go into liquidation , if its the latter then its goodbye BWFC for ever .
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Post by one2many on Nov 9, 2015 17:00:03 GMT
Not so sure on that owdonlad. Other teams have gone into administration and still exist, Portsmouth inmediately springs to mind. In saying that, if we enter bankruptcy, it would be because our debts are more than our assets owned so not sure how the company could come out "clean" the other side. Hopefully someone will eventually clarify the matter to us.......
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2015 19:16:14 GMT
Not so sure on that owdonlad. Other teams have gone into administration and still exist, Portsmouth inmediately springs to mind. In saying that, if we enter bankruptcy, it would be because our debts are more than our assets owned so not sure how the company could come out "clean" the other side. Hopefully someone will eventually clarify the matter to us....... Sorry but you didn't get the message , BWFC CANNOT go into administration because the owner is the person who is owed the money(so I'am told) so that means there is no one to claim off ,however they can go into liquidation or bankrupt and if that happens all assets will be sold to repay the debts so there will be no more BWFC remember Accrington ? .
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Post by andyl on Nov 9, 2015 22:31:15 GMT
With one rider. We cannot assume that BWFC would be all one business by the time of any liquidation. That said the playing business would with the greatest costs be the most obvious liquidation if things carry on as they are. That said buyers may be more forthcoming if ED can be persuaded to write off debts and in all probability his stance would be resolved before any liquidation and he's a fan!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2015 10:16:10 GMT
With one rider. We cannot assume that BWFC would be all one business by the time of any liquidation. That said the playing business would with the greatest costs be the most obvious liquidation if things carry on as they are. That said buyers may be more forthcoming if ED can be persuaded to write off debts and in all probability his stance would be resolved before any liquidation and he's a fan! true Andy ,just seen that Tony fernandaze has written off 180mill debt from QPR not bad eh?. fernandase with z
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Post by andyl on Nov 10, 2015 10:17:06 GMT
Very good of him. Not sure Eddie D has much choice!
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Post by OohMac on Nov 10, 2015 21:12:36 GMT
Not so sure on that owdonlad. Other teams have gone into administration and still exist, Portsmouth inmediately springs to mind. In saying that, if we enter bankruptcy, it would be because our debts are more than our assets owned so not sure how the company could come out "clean" the other side. Hopefully someone will eventually clarify the matter to us....... Sorry but you didn't get the message , BWFC CANNOT go into administration because the owner is the person who is owed the money(so I'am told) so that means there is no one to claim off ,however they can go into liquidation or bankrupt and if that happens all assets will be sold to repay the debts so there will be no more BWFC remember Accrington ? . Remember them? We'll be playing them next season. What are Eddie Davies options really? Sell but he won't buy a buyer whilst there's debt. So is it a case of walk away with nothing....I really can't see any other option. He would probably sell Clough, Vela, Amos and Clayton for £4M for his own personal gain but its a lot short of the £190M he wants. The only way I could see Eddie making any more money of us(and i'm sure he's done alright) would be to reinvest in the squad, get us up to a place where a play off might be likely and then sell to someone on the hope that they can get in on the Sky money. That ship almost gone now already. (Sunderland I think did a similar rise under Keane a while ago- bottom to top)
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Post by Trotter on Nov 22, 2015 7:15:04 GMT
It is sad to say but at the same time realistic that we are heading for a 12 point reduction meaning if there were any doubts about us going down before this reduction then the reduction is the final nail in the coffin.
Just read an article that all Bolton fans should read by Matt Scott a well respected journalist in the world of football. (If you go on the Newsnow website for Bolton Wanderers)
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Post by whitesince63 on Nov 22, 2015 9:09:16 GMT
Just read it Trotter, thanks for advising of it. Assuming all that is accurate, it really does once more cast doubt on ED as a benefactor and Gartside as an Accountant. Reading that you could even say the debt was built specifically for the income generated by interest and certainly not in the best interests of the long term viability of the club. No wonder Davies and Gartside have made quick exits and been so fast to disappear stage right. Now we're left with a basket case which nobody in their right mind would want to take on. Except perhaps someone with a genuine love for the club which by all accounts both Stellios and Holdsworth have. Let's hope so and also that Davies and his cronies finally do the right thing and write off whatever debt they have and sail off back to the Bahama's. Benefactor my foot Bent-F----r more like!!
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Post by andyl on Nov 22, 2015 9:48:39 GMT
This is a well written but in my opinion very misleading article and it has been quoted misleadingly on the improving ( I thought Murbroski's analysis of Lennon's team last week was very good) Lion of Vienna Suite to which seemingly we need to have recourse for news before the BN these days! But if we read it uncritically we are on the edge of extinction as ' the lights will soon go out'. There is a strong implication- a bad one that Eddie D has profited from the Wanderers decline and the clinching fact seems to be the £23 m taken in interest payments up until 2014.
But let's look at the maths in the crudest of round terms. We are in debt to the tune of £180m plus. let's say ( because we don't know- the real problem!) that £170 million is owed to Davies. He is reported variously as seeking £30m, £20m, £15 m or nothing for the sale of the club.So he spends £180-£30(sale)-£23 interest taken = £127m?.. Let's allow that the £23m is reinvested into stocks and shares that these have done well and he has made an unlikely gain of £27m.. The only conclusion to draw is that our owner has lost £100m ( and of course it's probably a lot more than this!!!Pretty bad trousering/filching I would argue!)
The article of course omits to highlight that the interest charged has reduced to zero and that a couple of years ago Eddie Davies legally undertook not to seek loan repayment ( which really would have ended BWFC) for a decade- a decade during which at his age he could easily die ( with chances increased by being a BWFC fan and indeed presumably his being at risk from murderous relatives resenting this lavish expenditure and limitation on their expectations!!)
Even as things progress with Sports Shield and/or our version of a Greek shipping tycoon the language is of seeking investors. Well investors seek return on their investment. How on earth was it unreasonable of Eddie Davies to charge interest on such a wapping loan? And latterly surely knowing that he was never going to get it back!
Of course this sort of journalistic nuancing is facilitated by ( changing names) The Dr Fillgrave Foundation ( with apologies to Trollope-the male author not the Swindon left back) being a secretive oveseas foundation soemtimes styled ShiftyMoon investments and the trail of 'Catch me if you can' Inland revenue Detectives who lie suicidal in its wake.. and the odd expose or law case along the way darkening the reputations of actors but proving zilch. It all leads to suspicion but then we aren't poring over the accounts of business far and wide or even government dealings for the veracity of their financial statements so why shine the light on this one
There may be a better answer in ancient times. The Romans had a model of mass bribery of populace to secure honour, glory and political office. Most people have heard of Julius Caesar? few may know that in 65BC he splashed most of his whole personal fortune ( the Julii were a rich family) on paying for spectacular public games to buy popularity and votes- money he was only to recoup in later years conquering Gaul invading Britain and failing and then taking over Rome in a coup! And much good it did him one subsequent March.
No Eddie D is most likely in this tradition. BWFC is his hobby, his passion so he splashes money on it and spoils it like an over indulgent parent. He may not be seeking personal popularity but to him the club's glory years are probably his? And now the bill has to be paid!
The truth about his involvement ( were there more partners in ShiftyMoon?) may never be known but the bottom line is surely that unless he liquidates the club , by refusing to sell and demands his money back ( which anyway he wouldn't get) then how can his benevolence be painted as anything other than it has been- a rich man's folly but in part a glorious folly
Where the article and other articles are surely sound is that to quote biblically and Spectrally ' The Writing's on the Wall' and it has been for a long term. The spoilt child rarely learns to manage its finances prudently. Board members have been grateful and inded helpful ( see reference to Brett Warburton's handout) but ultimately the wretched Premier League which has with Sky TV's complicit pimping, has lured many an Eddie Davies with it Siren's call and it is destroying or at least redefining lots of football clubs by its greed. The Premier League dunnit!! No bigger serial killer of football clubs exists?
Meanwhile everyone is concerned about Sports Shield. It hasn't enough money. It may borrow against assets. But why is this a bigger worry than these last years? A business making money from insurance premiums paid by parasitic agents and overpaid footballers sounds quite a going concern to me ( bet it could be pitched at a Dragon's Den). It might justt make Deano very rich. His own personal kettle part. Who knows? Someone ( Deano?) might come up with the idea of the Owner as Manager. If he were to succeed we might forgive him that miss at Wembley? On refleection nah!
I'm not sure the owner/manager idea hasbeen tried before other than for a limited period by Ryan at Doncaster, a Lithuanian at Hearts allegedly and maybe behind the scenes at other clubs. And it may be far from Deano's mind now though it's hard to see a recent football manager being completely hands off? But let's suppose that Deano is not in fact a benevolent Caesar but wants to set about running a business prudently, making himself rich, managing a club without the ever present risk of a capricious owner sacking him and is actually shrewd enough to run a model whereby the club starts to live within its means. I'm not saying he could achieve this only that the thought of him trying is not so hateful?
And meanwhile let's not criticise Eddie Davies. How many of we Bolton Wanderers fanatics might have dreamed or indeed acted upon dreams of such largesse if our kettles had come in.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 11:05:21 GMT
God Andy you must have lots of spare time to figure that lot out and then type it ,I do agree with most of what you say especialy the bit about Ed s glory days and the spoilt child , unfortunately the younger ones amongst us seem to think that people like ED are there just to put cash into the club , most tend to forget that all board members are money men and that's how they get on boards .
There is one other thing that always gets me angry and that is the lack of support people bang on about being in Europe but how many turned out to support those games ? indeed how many turn out to support now ? I have asked this question before but I'll ask again just one more time , when was the last full house at the remacc for a football match ( and don't say Liverpool last year cause that was 200 short ) and how many full houses did we have in Europe?, well rant over got to go and thaw me pond out BYE.
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Post by Trotter on Nov 22, 2015 14:18:02 GMT
God Andy you must have lots of spare time to figure that lot out and then type it ,I do agree with most of what you say especialy the bit about Ed s glory days and the spoilt child , unfortunately the younger ones amongst us seem to think that people like ED are there just to put cash into the club , most tend to forget that all board members are money men and that's how they get on boards .
There is one other thing that always gets me angry and that is the lack of support people bang on about being in Europe but how many turned out to support those games ? indeed how many turn out to support now ? I have asked this question before but I'll ask again just one more time , when was the last full house at the remacc for a football match ( and don't say Liverpool last year cause that was 200 short ) and how many full houses did we have in Europe?, well rant over got to go and thaw me pond out BYE. I would guess and guess correctly that Andy may have some spare time but what comes shining through in his posts are that he is an avid BWFC fan and I for one are grateful to be having the opportunity to be able to read his posts saying that it was interesting to read an outside view of our plight.
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Post by andyl on Nov 23, 2015 19:32:26 GMT
Looks like what I argued above was about right?
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Post by riochforthereebok on Nov 30, 2015 16:03:43 GMT
Wanderers players have not been paid for their efforts in November.... Do you know what I say?? Tough, cos you don't fkn deserve it. In fact, you should be reimbursing us poor supporters for all the dough we've ploughed into watch the shoite you've been serving us for the last 3 years Don't be expecting any sympathies from me cos it ain't happening Gosh I'm so fkn mad?
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