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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2015 16:14:19 GMT
Not unusual in situations like this ,the owner don't want to pay out any more and the new owners wont pay until its sure the club is theirs .
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Post by andyl on Nov 30, 2015 16:57:14 GMT
Can almost see tomorrow's headlines.....
Hours before kick off Wanderers announced that first team players weren't being paid in November. Senior players Feeney,Dervite,Danns,Madine ,Spearing and Davies refuse to play.Manager Neil Lennon resigns.
Caretaker manager Jimmy Phillips asked for comment said' These are seriously worrying times for my club but it was very encouraging that in adversity we beat Brentford 6-0. I was a bit concerned when we were just the one goal ahead at half time . That's why I made three changes in the first few minutes of the second half. And didn't Kaiyne and Max do well?
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Post by riochforthereebok on Nov 30, 2015 17:54:24 GMT
Can almost see tomorrow's headlines..... Hours before kick off Wanderers announced that first team players weren't being paid in November. Senior players Feeney,Dervite,Danns,Madine ,Spearing and Davies refuse to play.Manager Neil Lennon resigns. Caretaker manager Jimmy Phillips asked for comment said' These are seriously worrying times for my club but it was very encouraging that in adversity we beat Brentford 6-0. I was a bit concerned when we were just the one goal ahead at half time . That's why I made three changes in the first few minutes of the second half. And didn't Kaiyne and Max do well? If only AndyL, if only!!!
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Post by davidm on Dec 1, 2015 15:59:53 GMT
It just keeps getting worse:-
Bolton News reports that "Bolton Wanderers in 'increasingly perilous' position, admits financial advisor Trevor Birch".
Perilous??? There is not much worse than perilous!!
These takeover talks just looks like figments of everyone's imagination - just like Gartside's "it is just a soft debt".
Where was the budgeting prior to the season starting?
Any other business would be finished with this sort of financial mismanagement. I only hope we are not.
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Post by andyl on Dec 1, 2015 18:41:10 GMT
It. Is a really bad situation. New owners with money needed desperately
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 19:10:35 GMT
It. Is a really bad situation. New owners with money needed desperately Wait until the buckets come out ,then its desperate
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Post by OohMac on Dec 1, 2015 20:39:54 GMT
The new man doesn't mind coming out and telling it how it is. Not sure its perfect when you're trying to sell a club but a refreshing change (i suppose)
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Post by joanna on Dec 2, 2015 13:21:04 GMT
Andy L, your long post above is without doubt the best thing you've ever posted on here. As you say, ED should be thanked profusely for his bankrolling of the club over the years and for his amazing willingness to write off the debt now in order to facilitate sale to the most appropriate bidders ( who do not seem to include Dean or Stelios apparently. Are others forthcoming or are we doomed?)) He obviously still cares about the club and its future, and I'm shocked that there are those who doubt his commitment and sincerity. It has been his selfless passion. Gartside, on the other hand, has made bad choices with the cash available, and it has sometimes appeared that his word can't be trusted. The downward spiral started the day he turned BSA away when a relatively small amount of cash was being asked for in order to maintain the dizzy heights that he, Sam, had managed. However, I'm also shocked by some of the invective aimed at Lennon and the players. For example, on Monday it seemed to me that the spirit and the effort were good in the second half, presumably as a result of NL's words at half time. Lennon's change of tactics to use force up front to rattle Brentford worked well for much of the half. We have to accept now that this squad cannot play attractive, speedy pass-and-move soccer, so we may have to rely on physical presence through Ameobi, Madine and Heskey etc. Our more skilful players are frequently injured or ineffective so, like it or not, given the current circumstances, we may have to forget the niceties and get the ball into the box as often as possible and see if we can get some knock-downs or fortunate bounces. Other methods of producing goals have failed. We need our more mobile players like Mavies, Feeney and Pratley to get on the end of chances created by the muscular approach........and then get back as fast as possible (!!!) if the pressure breaks down, because this route could leave us wide open to counter attacks, I have to concede. Unlike most of you, I thought Feeney had a pretty good game: huge work-rate, success in beating his full-back often, and providing better crosses than is usual! He offered himself in attack and defence unstintingly....which was in stark contrast to Mavies! Sadly, WF still makes hard work of the simple things which the crowd pounce on mercilessly!! I wish the rest showed the same work-ethic despite boos, groans and cat-calling. They need our support now in these desperate times....even Dervite! Wheater, rather than Dervite, should be used at corners, again as you say, Andy. And we must practise accurate crossing.
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Post by andyl on Dec 2, 2015 15:15:31 GMT
Re this, Joanna I do not think that Phil Gartside and the board can escape criticism for the mess we are in. They have trodden a path well visited by other quasi ambitious clubs but the writing has been on the wall for ages
I'm afraid I am critical of Neil but I say this with loads of caveats. He's in an impossible position. His signings were foisted upon him over his unaffordable top targets and he's stuck with Dougie's signings many of whom have failed to impress. The backroom staff have been decimated. His own right hand man has left. Injuries have frustrated every turn etc. etc and it must be really demoralising at the moment. He is avery good motivator ( Madine notwithstanding) and well liked within the club although a few apparently poison the water given a chance---typcial perhaps of any club but we are 24th with players who are capable of better
Neil tends to revert to what he perceives as experience and always tries to hang on by not making subs. Yes we did play strongly in the second half and ditto in the last home game.And yes when we have two upfront competing we can be marginally more effecctive physically. But I see very little evidence of players hunting down second balls or knock ons. Pratley isn't fit enough. We have no box to box runners in midfield. We aren't really very fit! And if we are to play this long ball game that's what needed. As it is every forward foray leaves us open to counter attacks and brentford especially embarrassed us repeatedly.
In this dire circumstance it would surely make sense to batten down the hatches, play deeper and try very hard to stop teams playing against us. A five man midfield would seem imperative. If we keep them to 0 most times we are going to win a few. Our model for so long with two wingers and at times two men up front as well just hasn't worked. Yes if we'd taken chances we might think differently. But there is no chance of that.
Feeney is a poor player and I seriously doubt he would keep a place in a conference side. But he is a trier and if he just stays on the wing and runs the line he can get crosses in and eve3ry now and again when he has no time to think he hits a good one. he doesn't seem to look up and aim for anyone in particular though. But in the current context he is just about worth his place.
Dervite is beyond hope - slow, soft,poor in possession and incapable of passing a ball. Prince is very unreliable. Derik is inexperienced and makes mistakes. I see no argument for pairing Dervite with Wheater. neil's challnege is somehow to instil confidence into one of the others. Personally I advocate trying derik in the Campo role. When he first came he looked cool and collected and was capable of passing.
However for this admin thread I suspect that unless we get taken over soon the debates could be academic- the club will go bust and might even be liquidated. But if we do the argument re keeping or letting Neil go will be urgent. I hope he gets given a chance but if he does with his record he will be avery fortunate manager to have been where he was , when he was and to have had such poor results for so long.
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Post by bonaparte on Dec 2, 2015 16:23:20 GMT
I think we can all agree, as we have suggested many times in the past four years, that Gartside has made a hash of things. And now the rest of the world can see. So maybe administration tomorrow, I am assured Thursday is the best day as the Government then have to pay the wages.
But regarding the football, the excuses last season were that the players were not fit enough. I can see no change there whatever they have been doing close season.
I agree with Andy, forget about scoring goals in this situation, do a big Sam and work on defending and keeping the ball. When we loose it get nine men behind the ball rapidly, leaving one man to harass the defence and make a nuisance of himself. So 4-5-1 it is.
Usually agree with you Joanna, but Feeney is poor, or at best played out of position. He did make one good cross early in the first half, but latterly, either his target was in the wrong place, or he did not lift his head to see his options. His short passing is poor either over or under hitting putting receiver under pressure.
Re motivation, I am afraid I do not see much evidence of it. I accept Andy's argument about depletions etc and injuries, but I do not see a team of players going out there to bust a gut for a win. I see players ambling about the pitch, not really knowing what position to take and being bemused by every opponent who has had the cheek to pass and go into spaces around them.
I see no leader on the pitch, and no reward being given for good performances or no penalty for poor ones.
All in all I am afraid Mr Lennon cannot cut it in this division.
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Post by joanna on Dec 2, 2015 16:58:16 GMT
I didn't say Feeney is a good player, bonaparte! I said he had quite a good second half against Brentford and "put in a good shift." (as previous managers used to say!) He beat that young full-back almost at will, even in the first 45.
I did think that heads didn't drop, as witnessed by the excellent pressure we put Brentford under for half an hour or so, presumably as a result of a change of tactics initiated by our manager at half-time. The players celebrated wildly when we scored. We didn't look like a team unwilling to play for the manager as some have suggested.
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Post by andyl on Dec 2, 2015 19:22:10 GMT
I don't think heads dropped.I think the team tried really hard and to some degree punched above its weight. I don't think we can credit Neil with a change of tactics in terms of playing the ball up to Madine and Ameobi because it was a response to injury as in the previous game for Dobbie. Would he have made the change without injury. I seriously doubt it.
What he did do though was move Pratley to the right and Davies to the left. That rendered Davies less effective but helped Pratley. It seemed to me that Casado showed leadership enough for the team seizing free kicks , playing here there and everyhwhere and generally fighting hard but this was not at Neil's behest. Prately for me offered none. He kept giving away clumsy free kicks.
But again returning to administration we have to ask if things would be quite as they are if say we were 10th in the league, eyeing a play off spot and adding 5000 each week to home attendances perhaps attracting more Sky coverage. And that's to some degree ( not entirely) down to Neil and his tactics. Also after last season there had to be some sort of chance we could sell Vela and Clough in January for close to £5m if they had carried on making progress as they were. A shame to lose them perhaps but in the real world necessary. Did Neil have to play Clough upfront where he was bound to be flattened by centre halves and did Vela have to remain in the wilderness for quite as long as he did. Re Vela we do not know the whole story and his circumstances are not entirely to be laid at the door of his managers but the point here is that their value has fallen as has that of the whole team. Need it have?.
Also quite why do we need such expansive facilities at both Euxton and Lostock- facilities which separate academicians from senior players ( and they are quite separate, I understand?). The former may be state of the art ( still?) but we are no longer a Premier League team with Sky money. Surely there is a need to downsize and regroup? Nat seemed to thrive at Bromwich St!
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Post by andyl on Dec 2, 2015 19:31:37 GMT
I see Gordon Taylor is making optimistic noises. Who else here remembers his time as a Wanderer? He was a pretty quick, solid, bustling left winger who could on occasion crash a good goal.He took over from the somewhat more refined Dougie Holden and the nimble Brian Pilkington whom we had taken from Burnley and ran about somewhat in the style of David Lee. We sold Gordon on to Birmingham and he became a bit more versatile with them much as Franny Lee was to do a few years afterwards ( starting as a winger but moving more centrally more of the time).
He was the Feeney of his day! Plus! But he was a tad frustrating.
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Post by joanna on Dec 2, 2015 22:18:18 GMT
Andy L said: " I don't think we can credit Neil with a change of tactics in terms of playing the ball up to Madine and Ameobi because it was a response to injury Would he have made the change without injury. I seriously doubt it."
Unless I'm misremembering somehow, Clayton was injured well before the break, and we kept to the same fruitless approach until half time, despite the introduction of the lumbering Madine. Lennon saw that the status quo was failing and clearly then had words in the dressing room and changed to the far more effective tactic immediately afterwards.
Did I miss a further injury and substitution which forced NL's positive change or is this another example of your tendency to manipulate matters to back up your judgements as with others that you've decided are utterly useless (eg Feeney and co)?
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Post by bonaparte on Dec 3, 2015 10:26:36 GMT
Sorry, maybe NL did say something, perhaps you have insider knowledge, to change the tactics. No doubt he might, as he had to replace Clayton, about 5 mins before the interval, but to me there was only positional change, not tactical. There were still two possible tactical substitutions he could have made, but he chose not to. (DF was of the same frame of mind). Why not? Can he not see a potential winning tactic? Does he think that his bench is too weak? Does he think his starting 11 can out run 14 opposition players? I have no idea. I only see that he is taking the club further down.
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