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Post by megsontilidie on Feb 16, 2015 21:06:39 GMT
www.whoscored.com/Matches/830291/MatchReport450 short passes by Watford... just 264 for us. the formation didn't help...we seemed to be outnumbered in lots of key areas. watford played a 352... mf 3 of layun, ben watson and abdi. so at our 2 c/b's we had ighalo and vydra with no spare man to cover. our 2 centre mids bannan and danns faced their 3...outnumbered again, and up top for us our 2 ( 1+1 if you prefer ) , faced their 3 centre backs. the space with us was mainly with our wide m/fs and fullbacks but apart from feeney, all rest had below par games...janko jaded, vela too, and Ream though very good on the ball , as Andy rightly points out, was at fault for the 3rd, and possibly most at fault for the 4th. don't agree with BN man of match ( Feeney) , this site has Clough rated as 9.1. wouldn't disagree. scored 2...played a big role in the 2nd too & was at the heart of our very good spell of counter-attacking..dribbling and slipping in passes to ALF. they rate Abdi as 9.7, possibly a bit o.t.t but a good candidate for the neutrals MOM.
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Post by whitesince63 on Feb 16, 2015 21:52:21 GMT
i don't know if WS63's account has been hacked or whether btid was right all along. we used to agree a lot. now i don't recognise his posts at all. he'd be quite happy to let Vela go..based on what 1 or 2 recent below par performances due to fatigue, despite 20+ good ones before that. surely as a df hater, vela was one of his biggest gaffes. to criticise vela is to side with Df. www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wanderers/11794337.Bolton_Wanderers_boss_Neil_Lennon_ticks_off_Emile_Heskey_after_radio_chat/on this link he's made a post ( presuming this is the same guy ) wishing good luck to NL at Villa.. getting more thumbs down than just about any comment i've ever seen on the bn. and dozens of angry replies. i agree with the angry replies, if NL wanted a PL job, he should have waited for one. it's showing the classlessness of a DF to jump ship so early. Leicester might tug at the heart strings more , but both clubs are close to relegation,why not stay with us..and be up to the PL in a year or so anyway. we've showed enough promise to show that is possible. totally agree with NL that if we hadn't had this ridiculous injury crisis with mavies, mills, cravies, tierney, holden, heskey, pratley, clayton etc all out , we might well have made top 6 this season, despite a woeful pre-season & lge start by that prat . i've also dug up the "bolton striker crisis" thread which was on and around the time of the watford away game ( 1st game of season ) where he predicts Watford will "struggle to make the top half of the ch'ship" . they've been top 6 virtually all season as me and surreywhite predicted. everyones entitled to an opinion but an opinion is only as good as it's predictive value. certain other people who predicted Wigan to do well, even after the wigan thrashing in the lge game at the Macron, might also want to keep a low profile when ( if looks very likely ) they get relegated. A bit harsh that Meggo!! actually I was surprised myself just how many thumbs down I got for my comments on NL maybe going to Villa. I didn't realise it was so controversial to suggest Villa was a good move for NL even though I did clearly state i didn't want him to. Obviously it was though and if anything it's comforting to know how much behind NL we all are. As far as Vela is concerned I probably was unfair as he has been a star performer, especially as Andy says at Rotherham with so many under performers around him. However, the fact he hasn't signed a new deal yet is concerning whether it's the club's fault or he's stalling to see what else comes up. I think that's basically how it is now with players just hunting out the best deal rather than looking to stay where they are. Anyway, apologies if you don't think my posts are worthy any more but I just say it how I see it and if that's a problem it's yours rather than mine ? ?
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Post by spanishjonny on Feb 16, 2015 22:01:53 GMT
Whenever we concede a goal someone will be culpable but I would'nt say Ream was any more at fault for goals 3 and 4 than others.
Goal 3 he could have got closer to Ekstrand but he was left with the scorer and Deeny to mark
The 4th goal because it was a breakaway on our right Ream had come over to that side, Vela tracked back but went towards the ball, Bannan, Dervite and Lonnergan were beaten by the shot but Bannan could have come out faster towards Deeny
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Post by megsontilidie on Feb 17, 2015 10:34:07 GMT
There is no residual Dougie-love from me. I merely point out that not all results were bad at all times and have consistently said that he did some good things- a point NL made too - see BN articles And the whole match experience is better and this has led me to attend 9 consecutive games home and away. This will rise to ten on Saturday Why 40% possession ? Yes I wondered that too. At the margins we surrendered it more from the back than say against Wolves. We also had a very high tempo when attacking on the flanks and this reduces the time we were in possession because we were urgent and positive. A third reason is that they were very good in possession and more patient. And we didn't succeed at dis possessing them as much as we have been doing. It all adds up But I doubt it's deliberate. What was it v Derby? It felt as though we enjoyed a lot of possession in the first half there? There was no obvious change of tactics. Perhaps Moxey made an extra link in the chain. It was also my impression v Fulham that Vela and Janko worked together and kept the ball better. V Watford Anya was so much on top of Vela that NL was forced to swap Janko with Vela for a while and maybe this broke up the flow? is that a bit like saying Dr Harold Shipman didn't murder all of his patients, in fact he only murdered a tiny minority of them. and apparently he was quite popular with a lot of them. i respect the fact that you aren't too knee jerk, and see shades of grey where others see black and white. there's far too much knee jerk with this twitter generation judgement..2 good games..he should play for england and all that. 2 bad games...he's rubbish. etc etc. if you don't wanna see DF in black and white terms, i'd recommend a nice charcoal grey for him ! i won't repeat all the DF criticism..it's all on the DF FOREST THREAD . slating the whole squad as not good enough has got to be a big one. months before he was bragging about getting rid of the bad eggs that had caused the problems at the start of the previous season ( worst start for 100 yrs+). so it proves his rotation policy also applied to his excuses as much as it did on the field
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Post by andyl on Feb 17, 2015 12:13:27 GMT
Imagine for a moment a hypothetical universe where posters here had made up their minds to be anti- Neil Lennon . We have shipped two three or four goals in each of our recent games and they are looking for explanations!
The previous manager has been roundly criticised for rotation policy, convicted out of his own mouth and branded with the stigma of being a tinkerer. I argued repeatedly that it was smoke and mirrors and that I could pretty much always predict a team whose formation never varied and whose favourites and non favourites were routinely established. There were always two men anchored in defensive midfield, Bogdan if fit was No 1 and never dropped. Spearing started every game etc etc
Surely NL has come in and taken rotation and experimentation to a new level. We have four at the back, now three; we have midfielders at full back; we have opted for width; we rotate winger and full back in mid match. Vela is being pulled this way and that and his game has deteriorated . At Rotherham Kellett just back from bowls in Plymouth boarded the team bus and got on to the field at left back at Rotherham And we shipped three in 30
At centre back if Dervite is constant Mills and Wheater are rotated and indeed in our most important match of the season our centre half is suddenly our centre forward
All of a sudden we have the prince of rotators! Injuries play a part of course but not the rotation
So why aren't the likes of whites since 63 and Joanna barrelling forth with sharpened knives ready for the Ides of March and NL's demise?
Now for me it's not a problem I've always argued for rotation and experimentation, long term planning , introduction of youth and opposition specific tactics. My beef with DF was that when he claimed to want to do things he didn't follow through. NL is having a right good clear out, trying all sorts of things and either succeeding brilliantly or coming unstuck big time. We are playing as poorly defensively as at any time under DF. Yet we don't care?!
I agree with what I think you are saying mtid that none of this is polarised. There are shades of greyness everywhere and lots of illusion
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Post by bonaparte on Feb 17, 2015 17:22:36 GMT
It is interesting Andy to see that you think Neil Lennon is a tinkerer. Not sure that I would agree, I think circumstances have dictated the changes he has had to make. There is no doubt a problem at the back, and since Pratley has been injured a lack of pace and determination in the midfield. Up front we look ok, and will be better when Crag Davies and Emile Heskey are fit again. I can see Neil Lennon preferring to rotate the forwards, he has plentiful supply of riches to choose from, but I think the changes in midfield and defence largely have been enforced. Pratley was injured so Trotter came in (not my choice I must add) , Trotter got injured so Bannan was thrown in, then Mills was injured so Wheater came in. Janko was always going to get a start ahead of Hall, Feeney and Dans were shoe ins. Largely enforced changes. I can see Neil Lennon wanting to switch to a back three, Mills, Dervite and Ream but the current available midfielders are somewhat light, therefore 4-4-2 seems a better option. If Pratley returns in a few weeks and plays as well as he has been doing, I see a return to 3 at the back, with Janko (or Hall), Bannan, Pratley, Danns and Feeney or Vela across the middle, and a choice of strikers. Also Neil Lennon tends not to tinker on the pitch, Saturday excepting when he switched wingers and then the speed of Janko to help Vela out, and he seems (as DF was ) reluctant to use subs, a failing in my mind, for fresh legs may, I stress may, have averted the late goals by Wolves and Watford. Time will tell when the full squad is available once again.
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Post by joanna on Feb 17, 2015 20:14:46 GMT
Answers to why no sharpened knives:
1:- Exactly as Bonaparte says above, most changes have been enforced.....the result of injuries and the obvious need to rest our elder statesmen like Eidur after putting in a shift.
2. The quality and entertainment value of our football is massively better than we have been used to since BSA. Almost every player has improved significantly and young players have been introduced successfully to excellent effect The atmosphere and team spirit around the club is hugely improved. NL has an eye for a good player and how best to use them. I would argue that some of the performances under Df did not merit the points won, whereas we have been unlucky recently and lost points due to last-minute goals. Progress under NL has been clear. Those who play well are not relegated dispiritingly.
3. New recruits look promising. 4. NL's handling of the media is refreshing. He has put us on the map in a positive way. 5. NL follows through on what he says, and he is logical and fair-minded.
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Post by andyl on Feb 17, 2015 20:18:41 GMT
All good points,Bonaparte..My main one here is that DF tinkered less than he claimed and was criticised for and NL experiments more than might be supposed he has been criticised for. But yes injuries have driven some of it. The comparison is more apt perhaps with Coyle who came unstuck with gung ho changes in mid game more than once
You may be right re subs and their use. However when he put Hall on v Wolves he and Feeney threw two points away by not holding on to the ball in the corner. I suppose it depends on whose legs they are!
Over time we will get a better feel for NL's., team selection policy and constancy. It is still a honeymoon season and it's great that he experiments. Again however those who would criticise everything DF did might reflect that he launched good runs around Dawson and Jutkiewicz. It remains to be seen if Bannan, Slavchev, Le Fondre and Rochina have the same impact as they did
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Post by andyl on Feb 17, 2015 20:24:45 GMT
Crossing posts here, Joanna. I actually accept and/or agree with all the points of your analysis. That's why I will have attended ten consecutive games by Sat. It's fun at the moment and surely everyone present enjoyed the Watford game. My only note of caution is re the long term. Mind if I'm staring into the sun at Forest and we are 3down in 30 again with a defence reliant on Feeney's back tackling I will be gnashing my teeth and worrying
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Post by megsontilidie on Feb 17, 2015 21:47:00 GMT
Answers to why no sharpened knives: 1:- Exactly as Bonaparte says above, most changes have been enforced.....the result of injuries and the obvious need to rest our elder statesmen like Eidur after putting in a shift. 2. The quality and entertainment value of our football is massively better than we have been used to since BSA. Almost every player has improved significantly and young players have been introduced successfully to excellent effect The atmosphere and team spirit around the club is hugely improved. NL has an eye for a good player and how best to use them. I would argue that some of the performances under Df did not merit the points won, whereas we have been unlucky recently and lost points due to last-minute goals. Progress under NL has been clear. Those who play well are not relegated dispiritingly. 3. New recruits look promising. 4. NL's handling of the media is refreshing. He has put us on the map in a positive way. 5. NL follows through on what he says, and he is logical and fair-minded. i was hoping you or others would respond to Andy's post 'cos i'm not bothering. to deliberately try and muddy waters like that is ridiculous when we can see its the reasons you and Bonaparte have stated. NL might switch a squad type player around the field like Feeney, but DF decided to mess about with key players like Chungy with clueless experiments playing him on the left, that failed, clearly dis-spirited CYL and of course would never admit his fault on that and just switch him back. in this supposedly bad record since xmas we've played 12 games ( all comps) and scored in 11 of them..failing only at Anfield. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/bolton-wanderers/resultsin his 20 lge games,( NL ) just 2 times failed to score .... 2/20 = 10%. in df's first 10 lge games this season, we failed to score in 6 of them ..60% fail rate looking at last season , we failed to score in 12 lge games ..12/46 = 26% fail rate. after we beat blackburn on 26/12/14, NL had won 7 of 12.. a win % of 58%. clearly unsustainable. there was bound to be some drift back. Boro (top of the lge,) currently have a win % of 56.6%.... 17 wins in 30 !! www.statto.com/football/stats/england/league-championship/2014-2015/true-table/fullyes, the defence needs to tighten up a bit, but finally now we have a break to work on these things and also get some bodies back. even the likes of Mourinho have bad months..losing to bradford..shipping 4 and getting royally thrashed by Spurs..shipping 5. and BSA regularly had a dodgy month, often November wasn't it !?!
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Post by OohMac on Feb 18, 2015 10:19:58 GMT
Imagine for a moment a hypothetical universe where posters here had made up their minds to be anti- Neil Lennon . We have shipped two three or four goals in each of our recent games and they are looking for explanations! When Lennon was appointed there was a lot of people, myself included that thought that he was untested, unproven and possibly was not the man for the job. What he did in his first three weeks was enough to get the 98% of fans to not be anti-Neil Lennon and to be pro-Lennon. This is his worst stint, not much doubt about it. We've pretty much dropped completely from the playoff places and now our season is effectively securing a place in the Championship(which we'll probably do in a few weeks) and then its a very long pre-season for next year but the fans are still happy with the entertainment thats on show. A concept Dougie could never get his head round. He thought fans were happy to turn up spend £100+ per family per match day so we could be "educated" into a defensive grind out performance. Neil Lennon has shown the Bolton fans a level of respect we've not seen since possibly Rioch/Todd, certainly not Megson and Freedman, because even Sam Allardyce stated that he was "in the results business". I disagreed at the time, and I think that was the start of the end for Big Sam, because if he's only interested in results then 25,000 are better staying at homing and watching the vidiprinter. Lennon didn't tinker until the injuries came, whether that was the cause I'm not sure. He's never played in a league with so many combative games, if he had a Barcelona game or Juventus the chances are he could rest players the Saturday before against Dundee or a cup game against Queen of the South. This league Derby, Forest, Wednesday, Wolves, Fulham, Watford. 3 games, 7 days. We may see more tinkering, as Neil is a young manager who is still learning, not a young manager who thinks he knows all there is to know. Dougie tinkered with players who were on form, getting goals and getting rested. There's no way Lennon will drop a striker whose just scored a brace. It doesn't make sense. Saturday is a one off game, anything can happen and we'll be slight underdogs but overall I'm confident that we'll have the last laugh when it comes to Dougie Freedman. P.S Wheres Megson now. I better ask "people who know about football"
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Post by joanna on Feb 18, 2015 10:28:47 GMT
Well done, Meggers. I knew I could rely on you for some statistical back-up.
I'd also argue that some of the goals scored against us recently have been wonder-goals....unstoppable! The general uplift under Lennon has been clear enough to everyone, and expecting absolute perfection is, in any case, ridiculous.......
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Post by megsontilidie on Feb 19, 2015 11:36:21 GMT
www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wanderers/11803813.Bolton_Wanderers_boss_Neil_Lennon_happy_with_goals_return/don't want to do a dougie and keep blowing my own trumpet but i'm claiming a bit of credit here... haha good to see the BN guys read this forum..some of those goalscoring stats re scoring in every lge game are almost exactly what i put on 2 days ago above, and aren't the type of stats that get bandied about on a regular basis. even the theme of sharing the goals around is similar to that on my other thread re home and away scorers.
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Post by andyl on Feb 19, 2015 13:12:48 GMT
And so you should. The stats you post are interesting and constructively provocative. Good. Please keep it up!
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