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Post by spanishjonny on Feb 15, 2015 21:20:17 GMT
Quite frankly OM unless young Josh ups his game a bit it wouldn't trouble me if he didn't re-sign. That goes for most of the others too because at the moment our defence is way off the pace and I think the only one I would keep is Wheater. We desperately need two new full backs and put Ream back in the middle or even in front of the back four where he did so well when played there. I think NL is just giving everyone a chance because he has no other choice but there needs to be a big clear out in the close season and for NL to bring in the players he believes can do the things he needs. I think under successive managers until now the quality of our squad has been dumped down and dummed down until it seems even average players are acceptable. Well fortunately they aren't to NL and I genuinely have confidence that next year our new team will at last start to move us back up from the dross we've had to endure for the last ten years. Onwards and upwards and if we can hold on to NL next year should be a whole lot better. Well I for one would disagree with about Josh ,he has done as his manager asked and stood in to fill a gap and to my mind has very well ,when you consider the fact that he is playing behind a dumbo like Danns and learning a new position he is allowed one or two mistakes , full back is not one of the easy position on the field more so in the modern game were full backs are asked to attack as well as defened and I don't think we will see the best of josh until late in the season or even next year ,for me full back or midfield the lad has promise and talent and he has to re-sign .
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Post by spanishjonny on Feb 15, 2015 21:24:04 GMT
Quite frankly OM unless young Josh ups his game a bit it wouldn't trouble me if he didn't re-sign. That goes for most of the others too because at the moment our defence is way off the pace and I think the only one I would keep is Wheater. We desperately need two new full backs and put Ream back in the middle or even in front of the back four where he did so well when played there. I think NL is just giving everyone a chance because he has no other choice but there needs to be a big clear out in the close season and for NL to bring in the players he believes can do the things he needs. I think under successive managers until now the quality of our squad has been dumped down and dummed down until it seems even average players are acceptable. Well fortunately they aren't to NL and I genuinely have confidence that next year our new team will at last start to move us back up from the dross we've had to endure for the last ten years. Onwards and upwards and if we can hold on to NL next year should be a whole lot better. Well I for one would disagree with about Josh ,he has done as his manager asked and stood in to fill a gap and to my mind has very well ,when you consider the fact that he is playing behind a dumbo like Danns and learning a new position he is allowed one or two mistakes , full back is not one of the easy position on the field more so in the modern game were full backs are asked to attack as well as defened and I don't think we will see the best of josh until late in the season or even next year ,for me full back or midfield the lad has promise and talent and he has to re-sign .
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Post by spanishjonny on Feb 15, 2015 21:28:38 GMT
Wheater is an old style centre back, not comfortable on the ball and too slow, as the first goal yesterday showed Mills and Dervite are better, Ream is quality whether at left back or midfield, right back is the problem position
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Post by andyl on Feb 16, 2015 9:34:24 GMT
I also disagree re Vela. I've seen him have a number of good games; for example he was MoM for me at Rotherham. he is young and doing well. I do think he has been disoriented by being asked to chop and change positions and he is now doing midfield things at full back and vice versa. he may need a break to regroup but for me he's definitely one to stick with. Liverpool are again tracking him though after his showing against them so we may have to work for it
Re goal 1, spanish jonny, that was a typical Dervite mistake. He stood off in midfield and allowed his opponent past. It happened time and time again and NL's post match warning is surley aimed at him whoever else. Wheater yes has limitations and he was bested by a good young opponent but as someone said above at least he had a go. he was less impressive backing off for goal 4. It was like the worst of Ricketts a few years ago
Ream made dreamy mistakes on goals 3 and 4. he was excellent on the ball on Saturday but is no left back and may lack physicality at centre half. In my opinion we need to attract 4 better defenders for next year if we are to make a serious promotion challenge-- ( as in passing do Watford). It's great for us fans that we are seeing our side becoming more creative and attacking but there are moments for caution. I personally think that Wheater is most often the best and Mills is good on the ground most of the time but neither are anywhere near the likes of Bergsson, Ngotty, Taggart, Fairclough in terms of consistency and being consistently first to the ball. Dervite has had some good games but will surely make way for the retrun of Mills at Forest
A caution for all of us too and for NL is that his post Christmas results are not noticeably better than two seasons of DF's. No doubt MTiD could give us the actual facts. I'm pretty sure DF's teams did better v Watford than some other teams. Saturday's was a a brilliant spectator game but not overall a good NL or BWFC game. It was too erratic and Feeney at wingback was a step too far.
Yes Danns form has dipped. he is not as good without Pratley and as one of the older players he is fading a bit. Bannan is a good buy and very good on the ball but was off the pace defensively for goal 2. We need a battler alongside. Muamba and Pratley have been heavily criticised over the years but I think the merits of that type of player are to be felt in their absence. Oppositions when Pratley is absent currently get off way too lightly. Even Spearing, not a patch on Bannan on the ball is missed for his aggreessive tackling. We have a gap. It is exposing the defence and the defence are being found out. Danns on his own is being found out. Oppositions are studying their videos and watching his tricks. . They are letting him turn into trouble. They are approaching him from his left on his blind side and he is getting rattled. He needs a break
And we need much more of an air of command and presence emanating from our keeper. Lonergan again made two or three very good saves as keepers should but as more and more batches of 4 goals are conceded, then more and more the routines of his play should come under scrutiny
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Post by joanna on Feb 16, 2015 10:59:22 GMT
I didn't think I was going to need to post comments on the Watford game, as it was so obvious who the best and worst players were:- without Lonergan Watford would have had 6 or 7; without Feeney we would have had perhaps 2 or 3 fewer goals. I presumed that these two would be praised by all.....but no!...AndyL finds a way to criticise our very best performers, Dougie-like! If AndyL was picking the team for next match, he would presumably copy our sage ex-manager and relegate them to the bench or worse, despite the fact that they again confounded his previous words of censure. Feeney's crossing, in particular, defied Andy's judgements. Like DF, AL seems to have to prove that he has been right all along by deliberately and demoralisingly picking holes.
On the other hand, his championing of Wheater has again been shown up: he's fine if teams play the ball in the air but is desperately slow and ponderous when players run at him. Pace is an absolute essential at this level:- presuming that teams do indeed study videos of our weaknesses, they would be utterly dim-witted if they did not expose Wheater's ocean-liner-like turning circle. I agree with Andy about Pratley's value and with the comments about Vela.
We could easily have won this match, just as was the case against Wolves. Last-minute goals are killing us at the moment, but the style of play is so magnificently entertaining compared with the Dougie reign, that I don't mind if the record since Christmas is no better than that of the man who "understands modern football" better than the rest of us. Our luck will turn around, and don't forget that Liverpool failed to score against us in over 170 minutes, and not at all when we had 11 men on the pitch. NL's methods will pay off in terms of results as well as entertainment, especially when he has a full squad to choose from so that tiredness is not such an issue.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Feb 16, 2015 11:33:18 GMT
I didn't think I was going to need to post comments on the Watford game, as it was so obvious who the best and worst players were:- without Lonergan Watford would have had 6 or 7; without Feeney we would have had perhaps 2 or 3 fewer goals. I presumed that these two would be praised by all.....but no!...AndyL finds a way to criticise our very best performers, Dougie-like! If AndyL was picking the team for next match, he would presumably copy our sage ex-manager and relegate them to the bench or worse, despite the fact that they again confounded his previous words of censure. Feeney's crossing, in particular, defied Andy's judgements. Like DF, AL seems to have to prove that he has been right all along by deliberately and demoralisingly picking holes. On the other hand, his championing of Wheater has again been shown up: he's fine if teams play the ball in the air but is desperately slow and ponderous when players run at him. Pace is an absolute essential at this level:- presuming that teams do indeed study videos of our weaknesses, they would be utterly dim-witted if they did not expose Wheater's ocean-liner-like turning circle. I agree with Andy about Pratley's value and with the comments about Vela. We could easily have won this match, just as was the case against Wolves. Last-minute goals are killing us at the moment, but the style of play is so magnificently entertaining compared with the Dougie reign, that I don't mind if the record since Christmas is no better than that of the man who "understands modern football" better than the rest of us. Our luck will turn around, and don't forget that Liverpool failed to score against us in over 170 minutes, and not at all when we had 11 men on the pitch. NL's methods will pay off in terms of results as well as entertainment, especially when he has a full squad to choose from so that tiredness is not such an issue.Hey Joanna, what's your beef with AndyL? He aint jilted you at the alter has he You both seem to be at each others throats over Bogdan & Lonergan!! Just one slight observation on Zac Clough (and this isn't a criticism) I've just noticed his lack of getting back to help on defensive duties over a couple of games, in the Liverpool game, he didn't retreat when Coutinho had the ball coming past him and for Watford's second goal, he labored back at a snails pace when and the Watford lad had an age to fire in unchallenged. I know he's only young and he's a sensational talent, it's just an observation and if he's logged on to Trottersforever, he'll observe my comments
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Post by megsontilidie on Feb 16, 2015 12:09:53 GMT
i don't know if WS63's account has been hacked or whether btid was right all along. we used to agree a lot. now i don't recognise his posts at all. he'd be quite happy to let Vela go..based on what 1 or 2 recent below par performances due to fatigue, despite 20+ good ones before that. surely as a df hater, vela was one of his biggest gaffes. to criticise vela is to side with Df. www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wanderers/11794337.Bolton_Wanderers_boss_Neil_Lennon_ticks_off_Emile_Heskey_after_radio_chat/on this link he's made a post ( presuming this is the same guy ) wishing good luck to NL at Villa.. getting more thumbs down than just about any comment i've ever seen on the bn. and dozens of angry replies. i agree with the angry replies, if NL wanted a PL job, he should have waited for one. it's showing the classlessness of a DF to jump ship so early. Leicester might tug at the heart strings more , but both clubs are close to relegation,why not stay with us..and be up to the PL in a year or so anyway. we've showed enough promise to show that is possible. totally agree with NL that if we hadn't had this ridiculous injury crisis with mavies, mills, cravies, tierney, holden, heskey, pratley, clayton etc all out , we might well have made top 6 this season, despite a woeful pre-season & lge start by that prat . i've also dug up the "bolton striker crisis" thread which was on and around the time of the watford away game ( 1st game of season ) where he predicts Watford will "struggle to make the top half of the ch'ship" . they've been top 6 virtually all season as me and surreywhite predicted. everyones entitled to an opinion but an opinion is only as good as it's predictive value. certain other people who predicted Wigan to do well, even after the wigan thrashing in the lge game at the Macron, might also want to keep a low profile when ( if looks very likely ) they get relegated.
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Post by andyl on Feb 16, 2015 12:35:47 GMT
Re Feeney. I gave him 8 along with Clough thus equal MoM status and praised his three assists. I also faulted NL for putting him at wing back. Yes Feeney played a significant part in their winner and it was a brainless attack to make at the time but he had just fed Clough for the equaliser and NL had left him at wingback without repositioning Vela. . Feeney had a good game. And I said so
Wheater was at fault on goals 1 and 4 but Dervite and Ream were worse. Having seen the replay I'd downgrade my 7 to 6 . He did a lot of good things on the ball which took my eye but he slumbered on goals 3 and 4
Lonergan I gave 7 to at the time on the basis of three good saves that took my eye. His distribution by hand was better v Wolves than Watford. His kicking and decision making re kicking was average. He lacks the power of Bogdan and Jussi who kicked too often in years past but at least kicked long and with SKD challenging
The BN picks up on Lonergan being static for goal 3. Some keepers would come out for that others would save it. Goal 4 he was anonymous and he cannot have identified the dangers to Ream. He let two defenders get in his way without asserting a position and yet again he dived away from the line of the ball. I do not blame him for any of the goals directly but he did not impress me in what he did. Of course more generally he has had some good games and , made some vital saves., even one or two outstanding saves. I do not believe he would have featured in these last few games had Bogdan not got injured and I think we would have got more out of them had that been the case. Lonergan has no presence in his own box whatsoever. Bogdan has been improving. Lonergan has peaked. Bogdan out of form was indifferent for ages in early season last year and the year before. But he came good later.Lonergan made misjudgements twice in the first half once letting a ball run across the goal box once diving to soon(as usual) and really making rather a meal of kicking out a ball which he could have stood still and picked up. On reflection I'd downgrade him from 7 to 6.
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Post by joanna on Feb 16, 2015 13:18:18 GMT
RFTR says, "Hey Joanna, what's your beef with AndyL? He aint jilted you at the alter has he?"
Do you really think I would have considered as a potential partner a man with whom I would argue constantly, one whose stubbornness reminds me of Dougie and his annoying conviction that he is right and knows better than everyone else, despite the overwhelming evidence and the opinions of the vast majority?
No, I married a man who has the good sense to agree with me(!!!)....and one much closer to my own age! And sexier!! Sorry, Andy!
The serious answer to your question, RFTR, is that I enjoy Andy's match reports in which he leaves himself wide open to differences of opinion, and I feel sure that he enjoys standing his ground, sticking to his guns and does not take offence in the face of light-hearted banter, dissension and teasing...... It's just a shame that he's so wrong all the time!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 14:30:55 GMT
RFTR says, "Hey Joanna, what's your beef with AndyL? He aint jilted you at the alter has he?" Do you really think I would have considered as a potential partner a man with whom I would argue constantly, one whose stubbornness reminds me of Dougie and his annoying conviction that he is right and knows better than everyone else, despite the overwhelming evidence and the opinions of the vast majority? No, I married a man who has the good sense to agree with me(!!!)....and one much closer to my own age! And sexier!! Sorry, Andy! The serious answer to your question, RFTR, is that I enjoy Andy's match reports in which he leaves himself wide open to differences of opinion, and I feel sure that he enjoys standing his ground, sticking to his guns and does not take offence in the face of light-hearted banter, dissension and teasing...... It's just a shame that he's so wrong all the time!! at last a bit of humour ,thanks xxx.
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Post by andyl on Feb 16, 2015 14:51:05 GMT
'1. Do you really think I would have considered as a potential partner a man with whom I would argue constantly,... and his annoying conviction that he is right and knows better than everyone else, despite the overwhelming evidence and the opinions of the vast majority?
2. No, I married a man who has the good sense to agree with me(!!!)....and one much closer to my own age! And sexier!! Sorry, Andy!'- Joanna above
Re 1. Why not? My wife, your namesake, did! Re 2.Introduce him sometime to me. I'll buy him a drink or several!
PS Re the vast majority---evidence? If we could poll all 17000 who attended last week for example in the Bogdan v Lonergan argument..how do you think it would turn out? Anyone?
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Post by riochforthereebok on Feb 16, 2015 16:00:36 GMT
'1. Do you really think I would have considered as a potential partner a man with whom I would argue constantly,... and his annoying conviction that he is right and knows better than everyone else, despite the overwhelming evidence and the opinions of the vast majority? 2. No, I married a man who has the good sense to agree with me(!!!)....and one much closer to my own age! And sexier!! Sorry, Andy!'- Joanna above Re 1. Why not? My wife, your namesake, did! ReĀ 2.Introduce him sometime to me. I'll buy him a drink or several! PS Re the vast majority---evidence? If we could poll all 17000 who attended last week for example in the Bogdan v Lonergan argument..how do you think it would turn out? Anyone? I'd rather argue about Branagan v Jaaskeleinan ? Although, as they are much of a muchness and both capable of keeping the score line down, would it not be worth you 2 squaring up in a boxing ring to fight over your rendition of our cack players, the ones responsible for shipping in shed loads of goals, whoever they may be!!! Like Wheater, Ream, Dervite, Vela, Janko, etc etc
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Post by megsontilidie on Feb 16, 2015 16:33:09 GMT
. We could easily have won this match, just as was the case against Wolves. Last-minute goals are killing us at the moment, but the style of play is so magnificently entertai ning compared with the Dougie reign, that I don't mind if the record since Christmas is no better than that of the man who "understands modern football" better than the rest of us. Our luck will turn around, and don't forget that Liverpool failed to score against us in over 170 minutes, and not at all when we had 11 men on the pitch. NL's methods will pay off in terms of results as well as entertainment, especially when he has a full squad to choose from so that tiredness is not such an issue. neither do i . most of us i hope can see the reasons why. and can see that we are at least competitive. we've had a lot of tough games lately, 2 v Liverpool where we were competitive even vs them to the last moments. losses to top 6 sides derby and watford. can't quite believe Andy is still keeping that Dougie -love. Df's record against top sides is nothing to write home about : www.statto.com/football/stats/england/league-championship/2013-2014/versus-top-half/fulllast season 24 games against top half sides... 2 wins, 13 losses. simply woeful. a win % of just 8%. & over 50% loss %. it'll take a bit of time to start turning that record round, like i said very early on about our away form. Big Mick at Ipswich is the benchmark...the way he picked up Ipswich in similar troubles to us. hardly spent a penny in 2 years + .got them to safety 1st year, 2nd year..top half...3rd year top 6 ( so far) . NL already has 3 wins against the current top half teams - sheff wed, brentford and blackburn. and draws against ipswich and wolves..the unbeaten home record finally went but again that was proof that if we couldn't win, at least don't lose them, 'cos the situation DF left us, we almost needed snookers, so every point is precious to keep us moving up. Df at Forest has luckily managed to play 3 of the bottom 4 so far. this stat made me smile : www.statto.com/football/stats/england/league-championship/2014-2015/attack/fullBlackpool hadn't previously scored more than 2 in a game this season til they met Doug-loss on sat'day and scored 4..with just 7 outfield players (at the death ) if Lee clark is be believed ( 1 sent off , 1 limped off, and another hobbling/lame. ) www.statto.com/football/stats/england/league-championship/2014-2015/attack/homethis gets even funnier... i didn't realise breaking it down into home goals scored that blackpool had not previously scored more than 1 at home. that same table also shows that bwfc's most frequent home "goals for" per game is 3. i.e ( having scored 3 in a home game on 6 occasions ) that record of getting more than 2 goals per home game is BETTER than derby, bournemouth and boro. in terms of home and away, watford have cut loose and hit 3+ ( more than 2 ) in 10 lge games out of 31. www.statto.com/football/stats/england/league-championship/2014-2015/attack/fullso yes, be critical of our defence but lets have some perspective. it'd be interesting know whether the lack of possession..down around 40% was a deliberate choice (due to fatigue , or exploit watford weakness) or whether we got forced back. we countered so brilliantly at times. it's nice to have that alternative way of playing as a backup and may help to improve our away form eventually. with heskey and cravies both missing, it cuts out that option to hit it long. Eaves came on belatedly, but his lacks of mins seemed to suggest he doesn't feel he's quite ready for it.
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Post by Pedro on Feb 16, 2015 18:54:55 GMT
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Post by andyl on Feb 16, 2015 20:02:32 GMT
There is no residual Dougie-love from me. I merely point out that not all results were bad at all times and have consistently said that he did some good things- a point NL made too - see BN articles
And the whole match experience is better and this has led me to attend 9 consecutive games home and away. This will rise to ten on Saturday
Why 40% possession ? Yes I wondered that too. At the margins we surrendered it more from the back than say against Wolves. We also had a very high tempo when attacking on the flanks and this reduces the time we were in possession because we were urgent and positive.
A third reason is that they were very good in possession and more patient. And we didn't succeed at dis possessing them as much as we have been doing. It all adds up
But I doubt it's deliberate. What was it v Derby? It felt as though we enjoyed a lot of possession in the first half there? There was no obvious change of tactics. Perhaps Moxey made an extra link in the chain. It was also my impression v Fulham that Vela and Janko worked together and kept the ball better. V Watford Anya was so much on top of Vela that NL was forced to swap Janko with Vela for a while and maybe this broke up the flow?
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