julie
Apprentice
Posts: 16
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Post by julie on Jan 7, 2015 18:07:46 GMT
As far as I know the laws in this land don't prevent someone who has served time from returning to employment. I suppose he has a living to make so suggesting he do unpaid voluntary work is ridiculous. Hysteria has been worked up on social media sites, 50 years ago he would simply have returned to football and very little would have been said.
She was very lucky to find a jury to believe her highly unlikely story and personally I hope he is eventually declared innocent if only to shut up all these nauseating petition writers who seem more bothered about their 5 minutes of fame than the real issues.
And why should he apologise to the local bike who was happy to let him watch while his mate did the stuff?
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Post by skipper on Jan 7, 2015 18:36:49 GMT
AAhh a breath of fresh air, and from a lady too. Yes, I`m glad you`ve also seen through this ridiculous circus with this man. I would never, ever condone rape, but this case has opened a Pandora`s box.
I personally believe that Oldham were right to sign him. He`d done his time on a very dodgy rape charge.
I also wonder if Oldham Athletic could sue the sponsors for failing to meet their obligations, after all he`d served his time and should be re-habilitated.
This case has highlighted the many problems with rape cases now, and shown the travesties of ill-thought laws. Women need protecting from "Real" rapists, not a previously respectable guy who`d bumped into a floozy on a night out.
Everyone in this case is sadly a victim.
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Post by BWFCTILIDIE on Jan 7, 2015 18:42:51 GMT
As far as I know the laws in this land don't prevent someone who has served time from returning to employment. I suppose he has a living to make so suggesting he do unpaid voluntary work is ridiculous. Hysteria has been worked up on social media sites, 50 years ago he would simply have returned to football and very little would have been said. She was very lucky to find a jury to believe her highly unlikely story and personally I hope he is eventually declared innocent if only to shut up all these nauseating petition writers who seem more bothered about their 5 minutes of fame than the real issues. And why should he apologise to the local bike who was happy to let him watch while his mate did the stuff? So eloquently put as always JULIE and exactly why I've loved you through thick and thin since 2008 !! I couldnt have put it any better myself !! (Maybe a bit filthier though) Anyway, just passing through but this subject and what Evans is being subjected to has p155ed me off enough to show my support ! Good luck in your appeal and I'll look forward to you having your name cleared !!! (not you JULIE .... Ched) bye for now folks, might see you all in 2016 xxx COYWM !! Mr Lennons mighty white army !!!!!!?
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 7, 2015 18:52:14 GMT
i suppose as usual it's all a question of opinion. I'm assuming the Jury had all the facts, both defence and prosecution arguments with which to make their decisions and they found him guilty. We have neither but one thing I can tell you Julie is that 50 years ago he would not have been allowed to just continue his life but would have been completely ostracised by society. People I know were for much less. maybe that was equally wrong but until Evans is either cleared or apologises genuinely and admits his wrongs he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a football pitch.
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Post by socalwanderers on Jan 7, 2015 19:07:45 GMT
Regardless of what's he done W63. He's just one player! One player doesn't make the team and so of course I'd still pay to watch IF he was playing for the mighty whites!
Anyhow Skipper has done this debate before why bring it up again? It's the same opinions (split) no matter which way you look at it!
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Post by riochforthereebok on Jan 7, 2015 19:28:13 GMT
Flippin eck!!!! Hello BTiD
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 20:28:13 GMT
Flippin eck!!!! Hello BTiD And Julie together ,makes you think don't it ? are they one and the same ?
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Post by riochforthereebok on Jan 7, 2015 20:36:55 GMT
Flippin eck!!!! Hello BTiD And Julie together ,makes you think don't it ? are they one and the same ? Haha
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Post by joanna on Jan 7, 2015 21:44:08 GMT
The following is taken from the BBC website:-
"Evans maintains his innocence, and although he has been refused leave to appeal, an investigation is under way by the Criminal Cases Review Commission into his conviction. His family have set up an extensive website dedicated to clearing his name.
Even notwithstanding the question of his guilt, he has not apologised to his victim for the distress he has caused her. She has reportedly been driven from her house five times as a result of harassment from Evans's supporters. She has been vilified on social media and in 2012 nine people were fined for naming her in breach of a court order. Her father has said she was "living her life on the run" and had to spend Christmas apart from her family as "it's too risky for her to visit".
The only person to whom Evans has said sorry is his girlfriend Natasha Massey, for having been unfaithful to her.
But for now he remains, in the eyes of the law, a rapist. And for many that remains incompatible with playing professional football where he has responsibilities as a potential role-model to thousands of impressionable youngsters.
Evans admitted having sex with the woman on 30 May 2011, but said it was consensual. In sentencing Evans, the judge said: "CCTV footage shows, in my view, the extent of her intoxication when she stumbled into your friend. As the jury have found, she was in no condition to have sexual intercourse"
There are Evans's supporters, many of whom vocally protest his innocence.
On the other hand, there are those who say that he should never play football again, apology or no apology. That the abhorrence of the crime of which he was convicted disqualifies him from professional sport forever. That footballers are supposed to be role models. That his presence on the pitch reinforces a "rape culture" in which sexual violence is normalised.
The problem is not that Evans has not said sorry. It's that he appears genuinely to believe he has not committed a crime.
"He doesn't want to change because he doesn't think he's done anything wrong. It's a fact that it's a very high-profile role. He would be there in people's faces." To Evans's victim - whose repeated harassment is, it is claimed, a direct result of Evans's protestations of innocence - this would be extremely upsetting, and many other survivors of sexual violence would find it distressing, too.
His sentence has not yet, however, been completed. Evans is still on licence, and as such still serving his punishment."
My view:- All this being so, surely it would make sense for any professional club to wait for the result of the investigation before taking any action. Whilst on licence, his term of punishment is ongoing, so Oldham are clearly jumping the gun. This is forcing sponsors to make decisions which may also be premature, depending on the result of the inquiry. For the sake of a little bit of patience, the club risk besmirching their name, driving away sponsors and fans, and causing distress not just to this victim but to all others who have suffered a similar fate. It seems to me to be foolhardy to rush into a decision that could see them risk being judged to be condoning or normalising an acceptance of sexual violence, which is potentially disastrous for the club and its place in society.
Similarly, I am surprised that people are prepared to judge without knowing all the facts or how exactly the case was put before the jury. This is not the same as the Pistorius trial where all was on display, and there was no jury, but only a judge. In Evans's case, twelve people heard to evidence and found him guilty; the judge agreed. Society is in no position to agree or disagree. It should be left to the inquiry to make a final judgement, by which all will have to abide. Only then should Oldham, or any other club, act.
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Post by skipper on Jan 7, 2015 22:36:41 GMT
A very thought provoking and balanced reply Joanna, nice to hear the female views on this. I don`t think to a man (or woman in your case) has ever denied he was found guilty in a court of law.
Just can`t agree with you on his need to apologise, If he in his sincerest thoughts feels he`s innocent then why should he?
As I stated earlier there have been miscarriages of justice on many occasions and this may well be one. However at the moment he is still guilty.
On reflection and what you`ve just said, perhaps Oldham could have waited either until his sentence is fully served or he is eventually cleared.
Football is a young mans game though, and I feel he`s entitled to earn his keep the only way he knows how to...with his feet.
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Post by joanna on Jan 7, 2015 22:55:09 GMT
if you re-read carefully, Skipper, you will notice that at no point did I say that he should apologise......yet!
If the verdict of guilty is confirmed, I would hope that he would apologise. I also think in that case he should not seek employment in any area where there are role-model responsibilities.
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Post by megsontilidie on Jan 8, 2015 13:26:36 GMT
Sorry Whitesince63 I beg to differ the only thing childish and an insult to women is feminism itself. This is an affront to decent society, not a convicted rapist. Women are not held accountable for their behaviour in the eye of the law, what kind of law is this? For Christs sake they`re not children, stop making excuses for their "sluttish" behaviour. She was out looking for a rich guy. Yes, he was found guilty, but as I stated earlier had she been sober and he drunk he would still have been to blame in the eyes of the law. There is nothing de-sensitised neither, many women cry rape after regretting sex, where does this leave men. Wake up and smell the coffee. I pray none of you guys ever fall foul of this very unfair law. totally agree Skip on that latter stuff. drunk consent is not deemed consent. it hardly empowers women to treats them as idiots like this. i thought rights and responsibilities are meant to go hand in hand. like you say, man drunk, woman not, man to blame.... woman drunk, man not, man to blame. you couldn't make it up. i saw a great comment on a forum a while back on this never-ending saga ..it said something like.... "the only way for a guy to get his leg over and be 100% sure he wouldn't get done was to take a consent form to the bedroom with him, get it signed in triplicate in the presence of 2 witnesses, and also of course take along a breathalyser too. " it should be a joke but its getting to the point that its almost best advice. !!! i don't know how a jury can possibly be CERTAIN in these cases..it's 1 persons word against another. if my washing machine breaks down and i haven't kept the receipt. it means nothing. if i agree a verbal contract, it means nothing. in football we talk about "signings". means nothing til they sign on that dotted line. anything verbal is worthless. true dark alley dragged off the street rape must be horrific and no way condone that. would no way defend Ched over that. this feels very different to that as Julie pointed out.
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julie
Apprentice
Posts: 16
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Post by julie on Jan 8, 2015 16:18:04 GMT
She didn't get hurt, in fact apparently not a mark on her. Invited two blokes to her room then gave it the old ' didn't know what I was doing cos too drunk ' routine which the jury fell for. It's more than likely that Evans told her he didn't want to see her again and this was her revenge.
It really does trivialise the real crime of rape and just encourages any dumped and scorned female ( or male ) to go running to the police with a sob story. She off course is protected by current rape laws while he gets splashed all over the papers. And now the bullyboys conducting this witch hunt threaten an Oldham staff member with rape so the deal is cancelled.
Lovely lot they are.
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Post by skipper on Jan 8, 2015 19:12:19 GMT
I honestly wish that two honest ladies like you and Joanna were more prevalent these days, proper girls...I mean that in the nicest possible way.
To see you two ladies show so much common sense over something as vile as rape is truly heartwarming.
With you two feminism would in all its unfairness not be needed, as most (yes most) men have utmost respect for the fair sex. Even me lol.
Perhaps it`s because you`re Wanderers fans and don`t see things thro` rose tinted spectacles.
Bless you both. xx
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Post by joanna on Jan 8, 2015 19:37:46 GMT
The Criminal Cases Review investigation has not yet been completed. Oldham Athletic acted hastily and were naive to think that they would be able to withstand the inevitable backlash. Their reputation is seriously tarnished despite their late about-face. Shakespeare's Cassio knew the value of reputation: "I have lost the immortal part of myself and what remains is bestial". Thankfully, BWFC escaped a detrimental scar on their reputation by pulling out of a deal to let Wonga be a sponsor. I presume most fans were glad that the club finally saw what the consequences would otherwise have been. It would have been hard to continue to support a club with "bestial" connotations attached to it.
And still, people are prepared to judge Evans without having access to all the facts of the case, unlike the jury and the judge. For example, the following only came to my notice today:- "As regards his appeal, the video footage of the girl in the kebab shop falling over, coupled with the testimony of the night porter is pretty compelling. Add to that the text messages between McDonald and Evans prior to the offence and the video footage of Evans on the job, filmed by the third footballer, and it all boils down to a pretty strong case for the prosecution."
There must be many other details that are not common knowledge too. Let's wait for the due process of the law via the investigation to come to a final conclusion and not let our personal prejudices take hold. I'm glad to see Evans now acknowledge some of the consequences of his undisputed actions, but I'm not sure that he has been given the best advice by those with influence over him.
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