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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2020 17:10:34 GMT
It's going to be a difficult job no matter who gets it. Do we need experience, or a new manager/coach, who has no history.
Personally, I'd go for someone new to coaching and someone not connected to the club in anyway.
Dwight Yorke? He's said he's not been given a chance, well here ya go then. You've got to cut your teeth somewhere, or are we in to a precarious position that we need an old head? 46 games away from non-league status.
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Post by whitesince63 on Jun 15, 2020 7:15:28 GMT
Since the club have decided that we are going to operate a completely new set up with a Director of Football and a Coach, not a true manager, then surely the person appointed needs to be more from a coaching perspective. Some of the older managers will struggle, like KH did, to accept the limited authorities so I’d discount an older head. For me there’s nobody better qualified or ready for this role than our own David Lee. He has vast experience from working under some excellent managers and obviously running and bringing our young players. It is those players who will form the basis of our team next year so why gamble on someone else instead of one who knows the club backwards?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 8:42:56 GMT
Whoever comes in will need to be better and more thick skinned than the last lot. I don’t think us fan’s are very patient with the manager’s at the moment but me personally I just want to see progress playing football and winning enough games to stop this slide down the league’s Some people don’t think it can get any worse well try saying that to Notts County fan’s and Bury fan’s. I hope it’s someone decent that’s an all rounder who can change a game from attack to defence and vice verser just give us something to shout and be proud of again stay safe one and all COYWM
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Post by OohMac on Jun 15, 2020 8:54:30 GMT
All comes down to compensation. Can we pay it under embargo? If we are allowed how much is there?
From the shortlist you can whittle down. Take out the unrealistic and take out the old school managers who want to buy thier players, etc.
Would anyone in a job doing well come to Bolton when they see the list of our 8 players and embargo still in place?
Everyone is talking David Lee but i'm not even sure he would be the front runner if we appoint from within. Previous caretaker roles were given to Jimmy Phillips and it was Spooner & McCann(a buddy cop movie waiting to be made) that were in the dugout.
My personal opinion is Dean Holden would be a good fit. A coach who has been working closely with Lee Johnson who plays the right way. My feeling is that he would have picked up far more there than our coaches(could be wrong)
Local lad too and sure if Dean chose to come Bristol wouldnt demand a fee(again my guess)
I can see Whites already about to make the point "if we're going to gamble on an inexperienced man why not or own" fair point and im nor opposed to Lee. I do feel we have sections of fans that would love Didsy but if we didnt win first 4 games would it be like Namesake Sammy Lee. Good coach, nice guy. Never a manager.
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Post by whitesince63 on Jun 15, 2020 9:05:02 GMT
I agree chip, we shouldn’t discount completely the chance of falling further and next season will undoubtedly be tough, though I don’t believe as tough as this year without a starting deficit. There are no guarantees for anybody taking over but I do think that DL would be given more latitude than an outsider. Actually I’m not worried about him failing, I believe David has everything needed to make a success of it but we all have to trust FV to make the appointment they have most faith in and if that’s an outsider then they will get my full support on that. One thing I think we can all agree on is that we need stability but not to the extent that we find ourselves at the bottom and stick with it. I see no reason why we shouldn’t be challenging from the off because we have to be realistic. This is the 4th division and the quality is poor and given the likely fallout from the CV situation will probably be even poorer whilst we should have the pick of some pretty good players given our lack of current contracted players. I haven’t seen the job actually advertised anywhere so it seems the club may have an idea of the candidates they would like as they did last time. Hopefully it will be decided soon and whoever is chosen can start to build his squad in July after contracts expire, though I expect Phoenix and Kenyon will have been formulating a list of potential targets already. Time will tell but in the meantime stay safe all and don’t wait too long in those shop queues!!
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Post by whitesince63 on Jun 15, 2020 9:20:30 GMT
All comes down to compensation. Can we pay it under embargo? If we are allowed how much is there? From the shortlist you can whittle down. Take out the unrealistic and take out the old school managers who want to buy thier players, etc. Would anyone in a job doing well come to Bolton when they see the list of our 8 players and embargo still in place? Everyone is talking David Lee but i'm not even sure he would be the front runner if we appoint from within. Previous caretaker roles were given to Jimmy Phillips and it was Spooner & McCann(a buddy cop movie waiting to be made) that were in the dugout. My personal opinion is Dean Holden would be a good fit. A coach who has been working closely with Lee Johnson who plays the right way. My feeling is that he would have picked up far more there than our coaches(could be wrong) Local lad too and sure if Dean chose to come Bristol wouldnt demand a fee(again my guess) I can see Whites already about to make the point "if we're going to gamble on an inexperienced man why not or own" fair point and im nor opposed to Lee. I do feel we have sections of fans that would love Didsy but if we didnt win first 4 games would it be like Namesake Sammy Lee. Good coach, nice guy. Never a manager. Ha ha, you read my mind OM, that would be my first response on bringing DH back, though if Lee isn’t for FV I’d certainly prefer Dean to most of those mentioned and I agree he will have been well mentored by Lee Johnson who plays just the kind of football we want to see. He would also make use of our current coaches rather than bringing in his own entourage, though I’d like that to be a stipulation FV make for anyone taking on the job. I’m just hopeful that FV don’t fall into the trap of “It needs to be someone of experience given where we are” because that’s cobblers. Look what Ryan Lowe did with Bury last year and countless other young managers learning their trade in the lower divisions. I actually also like Sol Campbell who people overlook the job he did in keeping Macc up against the odds and to be fair was doing a more than capable job at Southend before the season was curtailed. He seems a modest, genuine individual and I’m sure would jump at the chance to come here, although I’m not sure Southend would want to lose him and may demand a fee which could be a problem. I don’t know much about Ian Evatt but from what I have seen he’s definitely one to consider as well. So let’s see who FV choose. It won’t be to everyone’s taste as always but for me I’m still very firmly in the DL camp and can’t really see anybody better that’s likely to come. Two I definitely would be upset about coming in though are Clough and Grayson. Both journeymen and I would be anti from the start I’m afraid. In fact if it’s either of those or similar it smacks of a lack of ambition by FV and my season ticket money stays firmly in my pocket.
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BL2
Squad Player
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Post by BL2 on Jun 15, 2020 14:51:28 GMT
I actually also like Sol Campbell who people overlook the job he did in keeping Macc up against the odds and to be fair was doing a more than capable job at Southend before the season was curtailed. Give us a break, whites. Campbell was in charge at Southend last season for 21 league games and they only won 3. They even got dumped out of the FA Cup by Dover Athletic. He's hopeless. Has this BLM malarkey gone to your head?
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Post by whitesince63 on Jun 15, 2020 21:08:39 GMT
Not at all BL2, I think you’re being a little unfair to him because just before the stoppage they were playing much better and starting to pick up points. He also had a number of key players out injured at the start of the season. I just think sometimes you need to look a little deeper and I think if you do Sol would appear better to you. Let’s face it, he pulled off a minor miracle at Macc keeping them up so you have to give him credit for that at least under worse conditions than we had. That said, my first choice is obviously still DL but whilst I’d be disappointed with one of the journeymen like Grayson and Clough I’d be more inclined to go with someone like Sol who has everything to prove and with their managerial careers in front of them not behind them.
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BL2
Squad Player
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Post by BL2 on Jun 15, 2020 22:04:15 GMT
Not at all BL2, I think you’re being a little unfair to him because just before the stoppage they were playing much better and starting to pick up points. He also had a number of key players out injured at the start of the season. Oh dear, whites. They were not getting any better at all just before the stoppage. 1 win in 7 games up to stopping. Par for the course for old Sol. Yes, they did have some injuries at the start of the season but he wasn't even there then - he only took charge in November. You're right about one thing though - he certainly has everything to prove. I just don't want him trying to prove it at the Unibol.
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Post by whitesince63 on Jun 16, 2020 6:49:03 GMT
Ha ha, fair enough BL2 I’m obviously not going to convince you and of course I may be totally wrong on him. You’re right about all your statistics but I’m talking about performances not results. He had an almost impossible job when he came in with a poor side weakened by injury to key players and obviously it takes time to stabilise and turn things around. Unlike KH who seemed to give up and lose the plot with performances and results getting worse, Sol seemed to do the opposite and I applaud him for what he did in two car wreck situations and believe there is a potential good manager in there somewhere, there’s certainly a fighter which I like and respect. Anyway, it’s not our opinion that counts but if he ended up getting the job I’d be 100% behind him.
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BL2
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Post by BL2 on Jun 16, 2020 13:00:45 GMT
As you say whites its not our opinions that count. We'll just have to wait and see. Whoever they get should be an improvement on KH.
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Post by OohMac on Jun 16, 2020 18:53:20 GMT
I thougt he did a great job at Macclesfield. But didnt he leave not getting paid and out of pocket? Was that on TPs watch?
Im weary as well as ive seen a lot of players go into management and hit the ground running. Only for them to start to stall and then clank out.
Thinking Di Canio, Rosler, Poyet, Kewell, Nolan and maybe Campbell. Not sure of thier name gives lower league clubs a real feel good factor or whether the players are kidded into thinking "this guys methods must be right, hes picked them up from Rafa, Wenger, etc. Only that "placebo" to wear off.
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Post by whitesince63 on Jun 16, 2020 20:55:05 GMT
It’s a tough job picking a manager, after KH which they rushed into, they need to get this one right and I don’t envy them the job, whoever they pick won’t suit everyone. I’ve made my case for David Lee first, Ian Evatt second and Sol Campbell third but it entirely depends on what the set up will be and how much say Toby will have. That’s a real question mark for me because we really know nothing about him or his qualifications to do the job. Clearly KH didn’t like it and I don’t imagine any previous manager who had total control liking it either. In fact if I was responsible for results which I had to get from players and systems forced on me by someone with little or no real time experience, I think I’d look elsewhere. At the end of the day, a manager or coach must have total authority to decide which players, what positions and what systems they play, otherwise I think we’ll be lucky to get any self respecting individual to take it on.
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Post by OohMac on Jun 17, 2020 6:28:38 GMT
At the end of the day, a manager or coach must have total authority to decide which players, what positions and what systems they play, otherwise I think we’ll be lucky to get any self respecting individual to take it on. Thats not the "moneyball" way though. So the new manager needs to be completely honest with themselves and the club. Can you work like this? No point nodding saying yeah and then sulking because you wont let us sign a 35 year old you worked with and trust. My top 3 would be 1. Evett 2. Holden 3. Lowe 4. Lee. (Give you an extra one there) My question for David Lee would be "You've been here for 12 years, why hasnt the cream risen to the top? Why hasnt anyone at the club put faith in you? Why have you been overlooked so many times? And why are you better prepared now than then?" For me the whole Lee hiring could rest on that.
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Post by whitesince63 on Jun 17, 2020 8:21:03 GMT
People didn’t put their faith in Winston Churchill or General Custer until Winnie won WWII and Custer saved the North from defeat in the Civil War but once in the battle proved their worth. I just see Lee as one who will prove a success if given the opportunity, if not here then somewhere else. Personally I’d rather it was here but if FV decide not then I agree with you OM that Ian Evatt would be my choice and Holden the wild card. I definitely don’t want one of the journeymen like Clough, Grayson, Bowyer or Powell, let’s have someone new to get behind and take the club forward.
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