|
Post by whitesince63 on Apr 10, 2020 14:34:01 GMT
I fully agree wots, the EFL position makes perfect sense and they’ve stated datelines for clubs to meet, though as you say, they know perfectly well there’s no chance of complying unless a miracle happens. It does though show they have at least tried to meet their obligations, even preparing to play behind closed doors which should protect them from the likes of Sky and BT as you say.
|
|
|
Post by kenglowhite on Apr 14, 2020 15:02:29 GMT
I see that Lord Triesman is on our case and is seeking to reform football, quoting the lack of credible leaders and suggesting the Government should step in. Wonder if anybody is listening, including Gordon Taylor and anyone else who lives off the extortionate earnings of footballers. Hollywood, at its worst, was never like this
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 10:20:53 GMT
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Apr 19, 2020 16:10:13 GMT
I’m just trying to be realistic wots. Obviously as a Wanderers fan, I’d rather cancel the season, rewind and start again with everything exactly as it was last August, including the 12 point deficit because I genuinely think we will overturn it next time, which I still believe we should have done this year, despite the bad start. Obviously clubs with promotion in mind will think differently but whatever your views on it, it seems almost impossible to restart the season given the current situation. As your article indicates, the practicalities and dangers of playing games are just too high to be realistic. How many players are going to be prepared to leave their wife and kids for 50 days? How many players wives would accept their husbands leaving them isolated with young children for that length of time? Not many I’m sure and I certainly wouldn’t. The sheer cost of doing it anyway is unrealistic for most lower league clubs let alone Championship and even some PL outfits. As Andy Holt says, it’s just totally impractical to expect clubs and players to extend contracts once they expire where they wouldn’t have otherwise done so. When you consider all the problems associated with completing games, it’s just fantasy to think you can get round them. I don’t think anyone would argue with awarding Liverpool the title but everything else should be voided so the season can be started properly once it’s truly safe to do so.
|
|
|
Post by kenglowhite on Apr 19, 2020 17:21:53 GMT
Agree with all that 63, but once you award Liverpool the title all other outcomes will follow the same calculation, thus failing to solve other financial problems and letting the game's rulers get away with their gross incompetence, and of course our Wanderers will be down.
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Apr 20, 2020 7:30:35 GMT
You’re probably right Ken, unfortunately the other clubs with something to gain would be up in selfish mode about it and to be fair you probably couldn’t blame them, although none of the others are 25 points ahead!!
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Apr 20, 2020 7:30:59 GMT
You’re probably right Ken, unfortunately the other clubs with something to gain would be up in selfish mode about it and to be fair you probably couldn’t blame them, although none of the others are 25 points ahead!!
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Apr 20, 2020 7:36:23 GMT
Just typed a dissertation on how to fix the world. 7000 words and instead of pressing send i pressed back and lost forever.
So abridged version. L2 for me is fine. It means we are 1 year closer to end of embargo which is hampering us, not just to get players, but also to keep the players. Not been able to sign Darcy. Losing him for nothing would be a real blow. So i dont mind volunteering our place or backing a vote that results in it however L2 presently is very tight. There are no Liverpools. It is a close run thing and few points separate top 6, with unequal games played. I couldnt say which team would be promoted and i doubt very much those 6 teams could agree.
I think it needs to come down to a vote between null and void versus a "as it stands" table. They would need to address the games in hand, which wont be easy.
My masterplan, which isnt without controversy. Leave as it stands. Liverpool champions(i dont say that with ease). No relegation. Top 2 automatic spots promoted. No play offs this year. Larger leagues next year. Fairly easy fix. No EFL trophy. League Cup scrapped? FA Cup replays scrapped. Europa cup god knows with being stripped back. No champs league fallout teams for a start. Champs league can have at least two rounds as 1 leg, maybe semis as two legs. And international friendlies to be replaced by more regular squad sessions/meet ups.
More teams in the leagues so more relegation. Could even get a bit more creative. So 20/21 season 3 down as normal but 4th and 5th bottom danger zones so they would be finalist, or a part of the play off set up. So this season you may have West Ham vs Fulham, Brighton Vs Forest in a play off final double header.
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Apr 20, 2020 10:17:34 GMT
You can go round this as many times as you like OM and come up with as many potential solutions as you like but you will never get one that suits everyone so why not just face up to that and end the season now, cancelled, voided, finished, start it again as was when it’s safe to do so, which May be a long time yet. Unless the medics come up with a suitable vaccine, life in lockdown is going to continue for as far as we can see. This virus isn’t going anywhere and despite the numbers, the huge majority of people are still at risk so I see little change in the governments safety firs attitude changing. Football will just have to accept what other sports and businesses have. There will be no games and no income for a long time, get used to it and be realistic.
|
|
|
Post by andyl on Apr 22, 2020 6:49:18 GMT
I see only one sensible path : to void the season and start again next. If the Olympics can be cancelled so can Bolton v Rotherham etc.
But all this will have damaged some clubs finances greatly. Some may not survive . So it would be a nonsense to roll forward Bolton's points deduction or embargo or any other team's? Because by that time ours will not necessarily be the worst predicaments.
I can remember when relegation from and promotion to the bottom tier was by re-election. So, first determine shape of leagues, maybe add teams in temporary or permanent expansion. Second seek applications re who wants to stay where. Some may opt for demotion if EPL or Championship status no longer viable. If any promotion slots available vote.
Trouble is there's too much self interest involved in a league. It almost needs an independent body. Nevertheless once there is certainty and once the financial casualties are defined or supported all of this needs voting consensus.
Hasty play offs, rushed fixtures noone sees or cares about will just damage the game. Brought forward penalties from a previous age are just petty and anachronistic. To my mind it needs a democratic and agreed way out and I fear clubs will fold and create space.
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Apr 22, 2020 8:59:15 GMT
You can go round this as many times as you like OM and come up with as many potential solutions as you like but you will never get one that suits everyone so why not just face up to that and end the season now, cancelled, voided, finished, start it again as was when it’s safe to do so, which May be a long time yet. Unless the medics come up with a suitable vaccine, life in lockdown is going to continue for as far as we can see. This virus isn’t going anywhere and despite the numbers, the huge majority of people are still at risk so I see little change in the governments safety firs attitude changing. Football will just have to accept what other sports and businesses have. There will be no games and no income for a long time, get used to it and be realistic. Trying to resolve this passes the time W63. Looking back i dont think Gartsides idea was too far off. Think it was 2 tier premiership with no relegation. Basically the 40 self sufficient big hitters and the rest compete in semi professional. Is there a point in having 92 league teams when they're losing millions year on year? Netherlands have said no football until September but not yet made a decision on the league standings yet.
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Apr 22, 2020 9:20:03 GMT
I agree on the two divisions for PL OM but not on the no relegation bit. Without the opportunity for clubs to reach the pinnacle, it removes one of the bedrocks of our game. I do though agree with andyl’s point about a club needing to prove their financial capability to compete in those two divisions before being allowed in so I’d say promotion for the top two and bottom 2 clubs between PL1 and PL2 with no play offs and only the top club promoted into PL2 if it’s agreed they have the resources, a bit like what happens with company valuations in the FTSE. There are numerous wealthy owners who could support a PL position and if you take clubs like Bournemouth and Brentford, they may be small clubs but with current ownership can survive at that level. Also there are teams like ourselves and Sunderland who would aspire to be part of that club and it would be unfair to lock us out completely just by a freak of timing.
Of course, that would mean the PL clubs sharing their spoils with Championship clubs and we already know how greedy and self interested they are, so that’s unlikely. I do also agree with andyl that if this situation continues for as long as we believe it will, there will be casualties, maybe even us, so the leagues may have to change. I think the vast majority of football supporters accept the PL has gone too far money wise at the expense of the clubs outside and would back a change but I just done see the PL accepting it. Who knows, it may lead to the construction of the Euro League which has been on the agenda for so long with the top 6 clubs from each major country forming their own competition and leaving the rest of us to get on with it. Clubs would still get their games against each other, so City v Utd, Spurs v Arsenal twice a year as well as the giants like Madrid and Milan, so shouldn’t lose out financially or fan wise. Whatever, a long delay may change football as we know it and there may be some surprises along the way?
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Apr 22, 2020 9:20:15 GMT
sorry for the double post a message came up and said it didn’t go through but it obviously did but I can’t find a way to delete it. Obviously as all my posts, it’s worth reading twice anyway 😉🤪🌈
I agree on the two divisions for PL OM but not on the no relegation bit. Without the opportunity for clubs to reach the pinnacle, it removes one of the bedrocks of our game. I do though agree with andyl’s point about a club needing to prove their financial capability to compete in those two divisions before being allowed in so I’d say promotion for the top two and bottom 2 clubs between PL1 and PL2 with no play offs and only the top club promoted into PL2 if it’s agreed they have the resources, a bit like what happens with company valuations in the FTSE. There are numerous wealthy owners who could support a PL position and if you take clubs like Bournemouth and Brentford, they may be small clubs but with current ownership can survive at that level. Also there are teams like ourselves and Sunderland who would aspire to be part of that club and it would be unfair to lock us out completely just by a freak of timing.
Of course, that would mean the PL clubs sharing their spoils with Championship clubs and we already know how greedy and self interested they are, so that’s unlikely. I do also agree with andyl that if this situation continues for as long as we believe it will, there will be casualties, maybe even us, so the leagues may have to change. I think the vast majority of football supporters accept the PL has gone too far money wise at the expense of the clubs outside and would back a change but I just done see the PL accepting it. Who knows, it may lead to the construction of the Euro League which has been on the agenda for so long with the top 6 clubs from each major country forming their own competition and leaving the rest of us to get on with it. Clubs would still get their games against each other, so City v Utd, Spurs v Arsenal twice a year as well as the giants like Madrid and Milan, so shouldn’t lose out financially or fan wise. Whatever, a long delay may change football as we know it and there may be some surprises along the way?
|
|
|
Post by andyl on Apr 22, 2020 11:14:05 GMT
In passing doesn't the consultation to herd us all into the lower tiers look odd now!
I just see the current ideas of EFL, EPL and all being as one Sunday Times reporter put it many years ago as reminiscent of a 'the terminal thrashings of an electrocuted octopus'.
This season is over. It's tough on Liverpool. It was tough on Tiger Roll who might have won a third Grand National. It's tough on Dina Asher- Smith who might have won gold in Tokyo. It's tough on Bulgaria who would have won the Eurovision Song Contest. It's tough on Federer and Serena who may not get another Wimbledon. It's tough on Coventry who have been through the mill and might have got back to the Championship. It was tough on Swindon years ago when they won promotion to the top division but weren't allowed to take their place. The list goes on. But it's a hell of a lot tougher on the many who have lost their lives and still will to CV. Football needs perspective. It is impossible to countenance, in the near future, any meaningful return to football as we know it. I just wish the powers that be could accept that and take the opportunity for a radical review of its governance and financial organisation, void teh season decisively and then find a democratic path forward that brings us competitive football whenever we can resume. Liverpool can take their place alongside Swindon in pub quizzes.
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Apr 22, 2020 17:26:50 GMT
Good post andyl, my view exactly on other sports and sportsmen and women who will miss out on major events. Those who think the season should be completed always site that things like Wimbledon, Olympics, Open Golf etc. haven’t started yet so can’t be compared but that’s not true, players for all these events have been qualifying for the “finals” for months and even years, so they stand to suffer and miss out on personal achievements every bit as important as footballers. Yes it would be a shame for Liverpool and Sheffield Utd and Leeds and others who saw a prize but as you say, none of them compare to the lives of people all over the world. Of course they should make every attempt to complete for all those clubs but it must now be obvious that under the circumstances there is no safe way to play football, even behind closed doors. The practicalities are impossible and surely it must be becoming increasingly obvious to the football authorities that it isn’t going to be possible, however much they want to complete the season. It can now only be money that is keeping the can being kicked down the road but surely once it’s clear it can’t be completed by the end of June when contracts expire, they must face reality and cancel the season altogether.
|
|