|
Post by whitesince63 on Apr 2, 2020 9:51:02 GMT
Good post O2M, not being a legal eagle like you, even my complete novice belief would be that circumstances would outweigh any legal objection clubs or players would take through voiding of the season. It seems to me to illustrate just how selfish and inward thinking football has become compared even to other sports. Euros cancelled, Olympics cancelled despite athletes training and buildings constructed, Wimbledon cancelled, Open Championship cancelled, Chelsea Flower Show cancelled, in fact every serious event cancelled despite all the money and inconvenience to participants and sponsors yet I’ve heard no talk of people prepared to go legal over losses. Yet the ignorant cretins that run football can’t see the obvious sense in cancelling the season because it inconveniences a few ponce players and club owners. Let’s hope if anything this shows up football for what it has become, a bloated, self interested infestation of mindless idiots. The difference with those is that those events never got started. If Wimbledon was called off in final week and a wildcard pick got to the final there would be more pressure to finish the competition. Or if Lee Westwood had a 7 shot lead going into last day of the open then there would be that back story. But thats the issue. You need to take emotions out of the decision making. Never got started? Really OM, so those athletes who competed and qualified for the Olympics in earlier events never got started, the pro golfers and tennis players who’ve spent all season earning qualifying points for the Open and Wimbledon never got started, the growers, contractors and suppliers to Chelsea never got started? Are you really suggesting that all these things just happen on the day with no planning, preparation, qualifying and expense? Planning and qualifying and the costs associated with all events begins the minute the current one concludes. Well the 2019/20 season has concluded except that the money men can’t see that. Of course it’s unfair on those who stand to gain but to say that none of the other events have started yet so are not the same is untrue.
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Apr 2, 2020 10:04:41 GMT
I wonder OM if you are going too far into the niceties of pleasing the very people we have been castigating on this thread. As 63 says many sports have come to the right conclusion without pussyfooting around who won't get what they so-called deserve. Has it occurred to any of us that Liverpool are where they are because they have paid out £43M to agents in the last year, thus encouraging the very hangers-on we all feel are taking fans' money out of the game. I wonder, now we are out of Europe, does the Bosman Ruling need to stay. It is on the back of that in my opinion that started to lead football to the dogs now shown up by this virus and the indecision of football's "leaders". It has become necessary to use form and statistics to guess school examination results, but why transfer that technique to our national game? Exactly Kenglo, the abolition of minimum wage and Bosman are the two things that have destroyed the fabric of the game at the top level and turned it into a merry go round of who can squeeze out the most. Does anybody seriously believe that any of today’s great football stars would perform any less if their pay was halved, or even quartered? £300k a week to £150k a week? £300k a week to £75k a week. £75k a week is still £3.9m a year to you and me. Are we seriously suggesting that players wouldn’t play exactly the same for that amount, let alone even halved again? Football I’m afraid has just lost all sight of reality. I’m not trying to be a bleeding heart and start on about health care workers or zero hours contracts, we all accept entertainers and sports stars will earn mega money but surely isn’t it time to ask just how much is enough? As for the Bosman ruling, I suspect it would stand up just as much in UK courts as it does Europe so it’s probably here to stay either way sadly.
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Apr 2, 2020 11:27:24 GMT
The difference with those is that those events never got started. If Wimbledon was called off in final week and a wildcard pick got to the final there would be more pressure to finish the competition. Or if Lee Westwood had a 7 shot lead going into last day of the open then there would be that back story. But thats the issue. You need to take emotions out of the decision making. Never got started? Really OM, so those athletes who competed and qualified for the Olympics in earlier events never got started, the pro golfers and tennis players who’ve spent all season earning qualifying points for the Open and Wimbledon never got started, the growers, contractors and suppliers to Chelsea never got started? Are you really suggesting that all these things just happen on the day with no planning, preparation, qualifying and expense? Planning and qualifying and the costs associated with all events begins the minute the current one concludes. Well the 2019/20 season has concluded except that the money men can’t see that. Of course it’s unfair on those who stand to gain but to say that none of the other events have started yet so are not the same is untrue. Of course the preperation started but if you wanted to visit Japan and tie the trip in to see the Olympics you wouldnt book it for years in advance. The actual games, shows and tournaments havent started. I dont vilify Liverpool if it wasnt them it would be Man City, United, Chelsea. All as bad as each other. Liverpool at least have some locals in the team. But they will be favourites for years to come. Sheff Utd and Chris Wilder i believe will be the hardest hit. I have said we shouldnt just wait and force the season through for a Liverpool win. If we can finish the season before July then so be it. If we cant then null and void.
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Apr 2, 2020 17:28:39 GMT
Agree with all that OM except the premise other events haven’t started yet. The culmination event may not yet have started but actually, unlike Sheffield United who have not attained a European place yet and may well not, many of those due to compete in the Olympics, Open and Wimbledon have done so through their respective qualifying events. Equally, exhibitors at Chelsea have qualified to show and will no doubt be gutted at the cancellation of this years event. Some from all these events and more may never get this chance again so they are just as damaged as footballers in my opinion. As you say if it isn’t able to be completed by July then it should be voided and certainly not run on and affect the start of next season, assuming even that is able to commence.
|
|
|
Post by kenglowhite on Apr 2, 2020 20:17:10 GMT
I read today that Harry Kane is reluctant to halve his £200,000 a week pay and at the same time he, or his agent, is touting the idea that he is looking to play for a club that wins silverware.He is not alone amomg our so-called stars. That at a time when the whole country, including football, is in unprecedented chaos through this virus. Another clear example of why football has lost its conscience, and why the leaders of the game need to take a long hard look at how they have taken it away from those who support it through thick and thin, by supporting the likes of Kane, Gordon Taylor, and the moneyed owners who revel in the glow of Sky and BT monies. All that with no idea when the game will restart and no sensible opinions being voiced. Likewise cricket is only talking about playing the white ball game....another set of leeches, whose only apparent interest is revenue.
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Apr 2, 2020 22:11:09 GMT
In future though i would say if over 66% of the games have been played the season would end as is or go to the eggheads for a Lewis/Duckworth mathematical conclusion. Didnt realise but Lewis who died recently was a Boltonian and Duckworth was Lytham. Relying on maths is no way to settle a fixture but i dont think theres been any arguments or controversy with the DL method.
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Apr 2, 2020 22:20:00 GMT
I read today that Harry Kane is reluctant to halve his £200,000 a week pay and at the same time he, or his agent, is touting the idea that he is looking to play for a club that wins silverware.He is not alone amomg our so-called stars. That at a time when the whole country, including football, is in unprecedented chaos through this virus. Another clear example of why football has lost its conscience, and why the leaders of the game need to take a long hard look at how they have taken it away from those who support it through thick and thin, by supporting the likes of Kane I would be very wary of these type of "stories". Any quotes from Kane or his agent? I think they are linking Kane's comments about looking to win trophies with this pandemic. Kane's comments are purely football based. Wants silverware, prefrebly with Spurs but if its not coming then he must look elsewhere. Hes too good to retire with nothing. I imagine a lot of players are reluctant to halve thier wage, especially if others are not following suit.
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Apr 3, 2020 8:43:35 GMT
I’m not sure we could ask the players to take a cut of 50%, however much the likes of Kane can afford it but certainly a 20% cut which is donated to either Charities, Care Homes or the NHS is the least you could expect. No PL club should be in a difficult position regarding finance and so consequently shouldn’t look to benefit from a reduction unlike L1 and L2 clubs who are in danger of not surviving. I’m assuming clubs are still receiving their Sky and BT payments and also sponsorship so I could understand PL players not wishing to just take a cut whilst that’s the case. I do though think that all PL players need as a whole to show some empathy with their communities otherwise I can see a big swell of opinion against them now the media boys are on the case. As others have said, it might look better if Gordon Taylor showed a bit of leadership and took a 20% cut first. I won’t hold my breath waiting though!
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Apr 3, 2020 15:15:57 GMT
So now we know. After a conference call we get this statement "football will return when its safe and appropriate to do so?"
Can imagine they quickly had the engine of the car on as he asked "any follow up questions. No great. Bye. Quick, get out of here.
I mean its just such a nothing statement. Basically saying "we wont risk lives but we also wont be making any decisions either"
Belgium have cancelled thier campaign however have named Club Bruges as champions. There was only one game left though.
Think the statement should basically have said this is the new schedule for the season. It aims to complete all games by June 30th, if the new schedule cannot be met, then in the first instance, the season will be null and void.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2020 11:38:10 GMT
morning all welcome to another fun filled action packed day , just read a news article on the beeb that says UEFA have cancelled the ban on football being broadcast live on Sats at 15-00 hrs ,is this going to lead to playing behind closed doors ?just a thought would get the table in order and if sky relaxed the constraints on one of thier channel and maybe sell day tickets per game that would also bring in some revinue . just a thought .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2020 12:01:06 GMT
Well, you think right, owdlad. More than a possibility.
Sadly, the live football that is shown on the box will be mainly PL, thus condemning the smaller clubs to the great abyss.
If anything live football on TV has hurt the game at all levels, save for Int'l games in far off lands..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2020 19:11:16 GMT
Well, you think right, owdlad. More than a possibility. Sadly, the live football that is shown on the box will be mainly PL, thus condemning the smaller clubs to the great abyss. If anything live football on TV has hurt the game at all levels, save for Int'l games in far off lands.. bee n on to a mate of mine who has a good job on the Sky ,he says that it is possible using "nowtv" but he thinks they need permits of the FA and BT and one or two more , guess we will just have to wait and see .
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Apr 5, 2020 7:41:33 GMT
The two scenarios i think of are.
1. If its a streaming service like NowTV do older generation have the access to it? Or will they rely on family members and friends to set it up and watch it with them.
2. If its PPV £10 a day pass. For the important matches like say Villa looking to avoid relegation, Liverpool clinching the league. You will have half of two major cities plus the rest if the country wanting to watch. Will every one of the street really pay £10. Or will it encourage a few to club together and watch it together with a few beers and weather is nice so may as well have a BBQ and oh neighbours have the same idea street party.
You can talk about on the spot fines, you can plead with people and appeal to thier considerate side but my opinion is football matches cannot be televised and shouldnt go on if the rules around social distancing are in place.
Behind closed doors with no TV and free to air radio? Possibly. Not really the "product" we expext and not sure how Sky will react. For 20+ years weve pumped money in and now were being shut out?
It also would send the wrong message that you must self isolate, cant see family members and friends but footballers can be in close contact with 21 other players, plus the entourage that comes with a game. So again as it stands unfortunately doesnt seem worthwhile thinking about.
Reminds me of the Brian Clough quote what happens if his idea is wrong "well he'll tell me his view, we'll talk about it for twenty minutes and decide I was right" Its more "well we'll discuss it for weeks and weeks, come up with all sorts of suggestions and ways we think it can be done. Finally realise that none of the ideas work and make the decision to null and void the season like we could have done in the first place."
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Apr 5, 2020 8:06:09 GMT
Impossible to imagine the government would allow football to be played, even behind closed doors, whilst the self distancing situation still exists. As we’ve said many times, whatever the cost, the football authorities will string things out so they dont cancel the season. They may be trying to do the fair thing by clubs with much to gain and because they fear legal action from any like Liverpool who would suffer but I actually think any club taking legal recourse against a cancellation would fail due to the nature of the circumstances. In fact, I think they might actually get themselves in deeper water legally by extending the season against player and sponsorship contracts which terminate in June. As OM says above, they should have bitten the bullet and stated that all matches must be played before the end of June, or the season would be null and void.
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Apr 5, 2020 9:34:14 GMT
Well i wouldnt surprise me if PL say games will restart as usual and will be conpleted business as usual.
Forcing the government to step in, perhaps even push through a law that prevents it. Then when the lawsuits come in they can say not our fault.
These next few weeks and months, i fear will all be about passing the buck.
|
|