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Post by OohMac on Nov 12, 2018 21:11:08 GMT
Andy, it's easier to destroy than to create and that's exactly how I See Parky.
It's easy to set up an 8 man defence and limit the games to one or two. I spoke to a Blackburn fan who said "once we scored Mowbray was happy to soak up the pressure and get the win" So many games have been like that especially at home where away teams know they can ease off and handle a one man strike force.
I don't think we should look at goals conceded as much as clean sheets kept.
On top of that I hate Parkys decisions to stunt the progress of young players in favour of a patch up job like Kirchoff, Ireland, Dyer, Obasi, etc.
Also again fairly or not I felt that Player strike was on Parkys watch and I'm not sure he handled that situation well.
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Post by davidm on Nov 12, 2018 21:46:40 GMT
Stats may look good Andy but all I can say it that this is the most mind-numbing standard of football I have witnessed since the 1980s.
People are losing interest.
The manager is driving fans away from the club.
I cannot see a positive outcome to the current malaise without change; preferably both owner and manager but, if it has to be, the manager must go.
And that includes quite a lot of mind-numbing games in league 1!
Walsall, Rochdale, Peterbro, Chesterfield (twice), Scun.thorpe, Bury etc etc
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Post by Alptrotter on Nov 12, 2018 22:55:31 GMT
I also agree in part with Andy, but I think we have to distinguish between Parky the man and Parky the coach. The man has broadly presented himself with dignity and restraint, although I do detect a recent shift towards a more petulant ‘I deserve respect’ tone. A pity, in my view.
Re Parky the coach, I can’t honestly say he’s doing anything but a poor job. Persisting with his ineffective non wingers, leaving one up front isolated, even at home and, crucially, never appearing able to change a game by judicious substitutions. His marquee signings of the summer, Doidge, Magennis, Wildschut and Oztumer have collectively made little impact to date, albeit for different reasons. But my main reason for reluctantly hoping Parky leaves or, if necessary, is dismissed, is that I do not believe he has, or is even capable of improving our players. Short term, we must be a selling club. Apart from the dubious fluke of Madine, I doubt that the value of any of our players has increased under Parky. Rather these values have declined. Moreover, his use of loanees has been poor and has resulted in us not really using this weapon effectively.
I agree that relegation under Parky is defnitely not a nailed on certainty, on the other hand I also agree that watching Bolton is now a demoralising experience. For me, the key point is that , under Parky, I can see little to no chance of sustainable development and improvement. Without that, ultimately, we will regress.
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Post by whitesince63 on Nov 13, 2018 0:01:14 GMT
Ok let me clarify! I don't want Parky to go. I don't want Ken to sack him.. In saying this I am probably quite representative of the fans who endure silently and the very limited voice of protest at the end of games. There is nothing like what we saw prior to the coups des graces which accounted for Messrs Megson, Freedman, Coyle and Lennon. In the end I wanted all of them to go. But I did not say I wanted Parky to stay. If that sounds equivocal I nevertheless think it's reconcilable. Parky is a good man who has worked conscientiously with not much going for him off the field. He has, albeit in streaks, given us some good results and some excellent moments. It was quite an achievement to get out of Division One with all that was going on. I lioke and respect him more than any of teh aforementioned. Why should I actively argue for his dismissal. I'd rather argue for the employment of an attacking coach. I think Parky has done a good job of defensive organisation certainly until trying recently to develop more of a passing game. Now if he were to resign, then my dilemma is properly resolved but again I'm not wishing for this except for his own sake. I seriously doubt that he will get another championship role unless he promotes another from below. My parallel post tried to look beyond the immediate Parky in, Parky out discussion. It argued that various conditions have to be aligned if a club is to make progress and we have all seen examples of this. I do not think any incomer has much of a chance. It's too early for Academy coaches to step up. So just maybe Phil Brown is the only one who has the history, experience and the history to take Bolton forward at the moment if there is a vacancy. But I'm not holding my breath. If investors are found the landscape would change. All of that said I do think we have seen more entertaining football recently.I like watching Erhun Oztumer and to my eyes he has come very close indeed to scoring a handful of goals and I really think, given time and loyalty and confidence, he will get some, possibly more than one in a match. And I like Williams when he gets forward and Hobbes at the back. If Parky just makes minor tweaks: Matthews for Alnwick; Vela in right midfield, Doidge alongside Magennis or Donaldson and Ameobi on the left or more central, I would not be surprised to see us go on a winning run. It may be that there are other better tweaks he might make to the same effect e.g keeping Oztumer on the left, playing Doidge on the left of the striker and powering up that left side to offset Taylor's clear deficiencies moving forward. If Parky stays all is very far from lost. We have at no point played as terribly as for example at home to Burton last year. We might just hammer Wigan. Your last paragraph Andy, both completely undermines your argument and confirms the exact reason why Parky must go. I agree with all your points about the changes to the team and personnel and so do most on here because it's exactly what we've all been asking for for the last two years, different personnel included, but Parky continues with his one up top, wrong footed wingers and concede possession, hoof it system. We can all see what's wrong, including you here, yet Parky persists with it including his 4-5 changes most weeks. It's undefendable in my opinion and if you try to defend it as you have I'm afraid you're going to be proved very wrong. Sorry.
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Post by thegrud1 on Nov 13, 2018 8:32:23 GMT
The reason there has been no *out* chants is because there is a feeling of apathy around the club. **mind numbing* is the best description of everything about the club at the moment. I have a mate who is a 30+yr season ticket holder who if has a choice stays at home and watches Rugby on TV !!!!
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Post by wots on Nov 13, 2018 10:20:04 GMT
I didn't know you and whites were mates grud.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Nov 13, 2018 12:39:41 GMT
Wow!!! So much division and mild anger on this thread. Ken and Phil must be getting to us all🤔 I wonder why😬🤔
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Post by whitesince63 on Nov 13, 2018 18:41:27 GMT
I didn't know you and whites were mates grud. Ha Ha, not rugby though Wots, now if it was time with my grandkids?? No contest.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 21:50:07 GMT
I honestly don't think he will be sacked because if you look at our results we aren't getting hammered every game. Apart from the two 3-0s all the others have been closer in the score line. So if he could change his tactics and play more attack minded we might just get out of this slump. PS I voted for David Moyes but I don't think he will come. At least we can all be friends on here eh 63 and Andy. COYWM
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Post by OohMac on Nov 14, 2018 9:08:29 GMT
I honestly don't think he will be sacked because if you look at our results we aren't getting hammered every game.COYWM That For me is where I have resentment for Parky. He will play for a narrow defeat and if we can limit it to 2 he's happy. Especially if they score a penalty and he can blame the ref even if it's a stonewaller. For me it's self preservation, not got the interest of the club at heart, it's lack of ambition. I think it's cowardice and it's blocking the opportunity of a manager and players who want to go and win.
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Post by whitesince63 on Nov 14, 2018 9:15:22 GMT
Crikey Chip, don't tell me your weakening on the Parky situation. He shouldn't be sacked because we haven't been battered every week? The fact is we have been battered every week, not in goals maybe but certainly in football, passing, goal opportunities, ideas, entertainment, team management, substitutions and pretty much every other facet of the game. Parky bemoans the one or two chances we've missed but fails to include the considerably more missed by the opposition every week. I know you weren't expressing your view, just possibly Anderson's but whichever way you look at it the fact is it's points that count, as Ken himself said earlier in the season when our early season fluke results prompted a false sense of confidence. Well we aren't getting points now. We aren't scoring goals now and will still aren't getting any entertainment now, so what's his excuse for keeping Parkinson any longer?
As you say, we are all friends on here. The thing I like about this site is that every poster is a dyed in the wool, genuine Wanderers fan and there isn't the name calling and profanity of most other sites. People here express informed views and discuss them. I think from your comments you may have misunderstood my recent quotes re Andy so just to clarify. I rate Andy one of the best posters on here, always thought out and well put comments. His recent piece about not wanting Parky sacked surprised me but also interested me in why he would think that way with all the evidence the other way. It wasn't a criticism so apologies to everyone, especially Andy if it was perceived that way. Andy hasn't outlined his reasons so he may have seen it as you did but I hope not as I would never mean to offend. Enough said. ;-)
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Post by wots on Nov 14, 2018 11:45:11 GMT
Made me laugh did that whites, 'cos I thought exactly the same when I read chips post.
Re: Andy's comment, I think you should read his other post aligned to this one.
First, let's give credit to Parky for getting us and keeping us in the Championship, whether, or not if it's by luck and boring football.
I have my own theory and that is of the Peter Principle, which Andy pointed out. Could the player's do any worse if they were left to their own devices? Is the problem that we don't have an attacking coach? Is Parkin the underlying problem? Additionally, Ken Anderson for not recruiting and adding to the coaching team?
Many have toyed with the idea of Lee and Kelly as the manager, but perhaps they may be the coaches to assist Parky, maybe it's Parkin who should be jettisoned.
There may be contractual issues that prevent Parky from resigning and we realize that Anderson will not/cannot afford to pay him off, or even afford some of the potential managers suggested in another post.
Just a thought.
Footnote; My opinion is that Parky should be replaced, given his recent record. Any other manager would have been sacked based on this series of results/no goals. There is, as I have said no plan B from Anderson, who up til now has stayed eerily quiet this Int'l break.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Nov 14, 2018 13:10:07 GMT
My two penneth clearly states that Parkinson cannot spot talent. END OF Magennis and Doidge should be left in League One, along with our manager. Lowe??? FFS Nooooooooo Wildschut!!!! One run, one flukey goal I think🤔 Taylor ? Hobbs ? Donaldson ? Dyer ? Ireland ? Injury prone Olkowski? One good game then fade Gary O’Neil? Noone? Wilson ? Why ? I know he doesn’t have any cash but that’s no reason to make desperate loans and purchases of useless waste of resources on aged journeymen. He can’t spot talent because he wouldn’t know where to play them. This is his team and his players and I partly blame him for Vela’s demise and for the unnecessary injuries we have. Steve Parkin is like Lennie Lawrence from when Freeloader was in charge! Pointless... We need a massive statement if intent from this chairman which should include the dismiss of PP and SP, I’d even say put Jimmy Phillips back in charge until we find someone new alongside DL TK and Ju Darby. Where’s Neil McDonald when you need him?
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Post by kenglowhite on Nov 14, 2018 15:25:15 GMT
Brilliant post RFTR !!! I am particularly concerned about central midfield and have been since Ivan Campo. The BN have been giving Lowe rave notices, but he is very ineffective in my opinion. I note he captained Blackbrun into League One and moved to Brum where he flopped....only to be signed by PP. I think only Hobbs of that list of signings is likely to make good, and that among other reasons is why they aren't gelling as a team. All those useless signings on the wage bill, and although probably only on modest money, just think how that could have brought in one or two really good signings. You only need one good one to bring the best out of otherwise useless rejects from other clubs. That is the reason PP needs to be pensioned off ASAP.
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Post by wots on Nov 14, 2018 18:21:27 GMT
My two penneth clearly states that Parkinson cannot spot talent. END OF Magennis and Doidge should be left in League One, along with our manager. Lowe??? FFS Nooooooooo Wildschut!!!! One run, one flukey goal I think🤔 Taylor ? Hobbs ? Donaldson ? Dyer ? Ireland ? Injury prone Olkowski? One good game then fade Gary O’Neil? Noone? Wilson ? Why ? I know he doesn’t have any cash but that’s no reason to make desperate loans and purchases of useless waste of resources on aged journeymen. He can’t spot talent because he wouldn’t know where to play them. This is his team and his players and I partly blame him for Vela’s demise and for the unnecessary injuries we have. Steve Parkin is like Lennie Lawrence from when Freeloader was in charge! Pointless... We need a massive statement if intent from this chairman which should include the dismiss of PP and SP, I’d even say put Jimmy Phillips back in charge until we find someone new alongside DL TK and Ju Darby. Where’s Neil McDonald when you need him? Football is a business Rioch. It's a little more complicated than what you think. We have to accept the predicament that we are in, as it applies to "Parky Out" and that is: we have no money, or at least none that Anderson is willing to spend. As I've posted before, we know Parky's capabilities, but in the end it's Anderson who is the problem, not the staff. I appreciate Anderson has balanced the financials to some extent, but he is in a win win situation, as per davidm's post. He cares, financially, of course.
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