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Post by andyl on Feb 22, 2015 2:23:12 GMT
There are no miracles on view and this game was a harsh reality check. A fellow fan and I were discussing why so many injuries were occurring before the game. Was it anything to do with NL's regime. Well here today yes. Ream pushed on to one leg- (Would say other foot/wrong foot but not sure he possesses- were he named Mills would think it was Heather) as a daft attempt to thwart Antonio's speed, was disoriented throughout and the post only added to his discomfort. Twardzik on full debut was put into the shuttle sprinting wing back role and no surprise it was too much for him-pity he shows promise. Lonergan kamikazed himself with an assist from Moxey so that was a one off.
If we think back Pratley was pressing everywhere, Clough pulled up after debut. Trotter and Craig D have been pushed after repeated injury... And the pattern persists
whitessincce63 too harsh on DF and today untimely.. Yes there were turkeys but his transfer windows yielded Dawson,Jutkiewicz and Hutton. Any of these would be very welcome now and anyway this is not the game to be asserting Neil's supremacy. It's unproven and yesterday did nothing for the argument. We even heard harsh criticisms of the 'my players are soft/aren't good enough variety.
fairer to say that yesthe NL era has been encouraging in many ways but now he has a challenge on with a half fit squad and a tough relegation scrap. These last few away games have well and truly burst the bubble. We will now see if first impressions have been accurate! Hope so! I'm still optimistic, just!
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Post by socalwanderers on Feb 22, 2015 3:45:41 GMT
There are no miracles on view and this game was a harsh reality check. A fellow fan and I were discussing why so many injuries were occurring before the game. Was it anything to do with NL's regime. Well here today yes. Ream pushed on to one leg- (Would say other foot/wrong foot but not sure he possesses- were he named Mills would think it was Heather) as a daft attempt to thwart Antonio's speed, was disoriented throughout and the post only added to his discomfort. Twardzik on full debut was put into the shuttle sprinting wing back role and no surprise it was too much for him-pity he shows promise. Lonergan kamikazed himself with an assist from Moxey so that was a one off. If we think back Pratley was pressing everywhere, Clough pulled up after debut. Trotter and Craig D have been pushed after repeated injury... And the pattern persists whitessincce63 too harsh on DF and today untimely.. Yes there were turkeys but his transfer windows yielded Dawson,Jutkiewicz and Hutton. Any of these would be very welcome now and anyway this is not the game to be asserting Neil's supremacy. It's unproven and yesterday did nothing for the argument. We even heard harsh criticisms of the 'my players are soft/aren't good enough variety. fairer to say that yesthe NL era has been encouraging in many ways but now he has a challenge on with a half fit squad and a tough relegation scrap. These last few away games have well and truly burst the bubble. We will now see if first impressions have been accurate! Hope so! I'm still optimistic, just! Flipping eck is this a wind up? I dont think it was worth a response but I'm sure it's going to be a lively debate when I get up in the morning! Talk about testing a mans character with comments like that AndyL FFS? (shaking my head) optimistic you say I say taking the pi$$! I think someone commented on the fact that Dougloss was only given till the end of the season contract which might surprise you eh? You can't exactly say it is a level playing field can you with players both managers took over can you? Talking about ex managers maybe news to everyone but strong links are saying that Big Sam is going to walk away at the end of this season from West Spam!! I'll put it down to watching a bad day at the office but despite recent results I still believe (even though it wasn't evident yesterday) there is a change of approach and hopefully results will change for the best. Players need to hold themselves accountable has do managers I get that but now is not the time to start distancing yourselves! Night! Xxx
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Post by whitesince63 on Feb 22, 2015 7:43:28 GMT
There are no miracles on view and this game was a harsh reality check. A fellow fan and I were discussing why so many injuries were occurring before the game. Was it anything to do with NL's regime. Well here today yes. Ream pushed on to one leg- (Would say other foot/wrong foot but not sure he possesses- were he named Mills would think it was Heather) as a daft attempt to thwart Antonio's speed, was disoriented throughout and the post only added to his discomfort. Twardzik on full debut was put into the shuttle sprinting wing back role and no surprise it was too much for him-pity he shows promise. Lonergan kamikazed himself with an assist from Moxey so that was a one off. If we think back Pratley was pressing everywhere, Clough pulled up after debut. Trotter and Craig D have been pushed after repeated injury... And the pattern persists whitessincce63 too harsh on DF and today untimely.. Yes there were turkeys but his transfer windows yielded Dawson,Jutkiewicz and Hutton. Any of these would be very welcome now and anyway this is not the game to be asserting Neil's supremacy. It's unproven and yesterday did nothing for the argument. We even heard harsh criticisms of the 'my players are soft/aren't good enough variety. fairer to say that yesthe NL era has been encouraging in many ways but now he has a challenge on with a half fit squad and a tough relegation scrap. These last few away games have well and truly burst the bubble. We will now see if first impressions have been accurate! Hope so! I'm still optimistic, just! Not a bit too hard on DF Andy, he alienated players who could have helped us, used what resources he had badly, said one thing and did another, sat a full back earning £25k a week on his bum when he could have been earning that wage, persisted with the likes of Knight, allowed Dawson to return to WBA when he could have done more to keep him and squandered what little money we did have on second rate journeymen by giving them long contracts so we're now stuck with them. He signed players then loaned them out, ostracised our youth and dropped players in form for no good reason. I could go on so don't give me the Hutton and Jutkevicz crap, even Freedman had to get lucky some time. Open your eyes to what he's left behind. He's been the most destructive manager we've ever had no question. Lennon's now got to work with this dross but hopefully only until the end of the season when he can start to re-build, assuming he's still here of course whic I very much doubt.
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Post by andyl on Feb 22, 2015 9:09:51 GMT
Whites since 63, you have missed my intended point though I do think you are being harsh re DFalthough I don't at root disagree with you. But I don't care about DF. I'll readily concede all that to you even the hyperbole re worst - we have had some shockers in the 80s! My focus is concern re Neil Lennon and the team now. He has McNaughton sitting on his bum! He proclaimed a front foot strategy and then upset the balance of the whole team to counter Antonio.He got cross with his own players. He made chaotic in match decisions. Heskey centre half? Clough captain?
Before everyone descends and misunderstands so far he's done well and excitingly so. He operates with passion and imagination. I actually approve of experimentation. I also get his being so fed up yesterday as to lose interest. None of that is terminal. He is still learning
But to praise him or compare him favourably to DF or any manager- today and yesterday are not the days for it
We are in fast free fall. Now is the time to show his mettle.!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 10:27:07 GMT
Morning all, andyl freedman has taken over a very good team in Forest who just needed to click again and the run of games they have had Brighton Wigan Blackpool And us who are rubbish away some at work say he should have taken 12 points. Flip the coin over to what he left us 5 points and second from bottom team of dross players and now look were we are. I was at the game yesterday and I have to say what I saw was total rubbish it looked like we have gone backwards in the last couple of weeks. Lets just wait till the end of the season see were we are and just for fun see what happens at the city ground when they play some tough games. Enjoy your Sunday andyl it seems you are being got at this weekend even from me.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Feb 22, 2015 12:29:21 GMT
Morning all, andyl freedman has taken over a very good team in Forest who just needed to click again and the run of games they have had Brighton Wigan Blackpool And us who are rubbish away some at work say he should have taken 12 points. Flip the coin over to what he left us 5 points and second from bottom team of dross players and now look were we are. I was at the game yesterday and I have to say what I saw was total rubbish it looked like we have gone backwards in the last couple of weeks. Lets just wait till the end of the season see were we are and just for fun see what happens at the city ground when they play some tough games. Enjoy your Sunday andyl it seems you are being got at this weekend even from me. Interesting point you make there chip, 'look where we are now' We are actually only 6 points above the drop zone albeit we do have enough games to cement a position in this torrid league for next season. I'm a bit miffed with some of the reaction on the BN and here towards Lennon, it's almost as if people are waiting to pounce on him and think that we have another Freedman on our hands. NL needs time, money and support from the owner and the board then watch the difference. The Heskey and Gudjohnnsen deals were clearly there to instil some experience and confidence into the Freedman flops and for a short period of time, appeared to be working. Time really has shown how poor Freedmans buys were and only Lennon could possibly manage to get anything out of them in terms of battling qualities. We need to continue our support for NL and write this season off, but one thing is for sure, 80% of the current squad are simply not good enough for BWFC or this league
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 12:59:36 GMT
I see what you are saying riochforthereebok but just which players can we just get rid of. To be honest me included we all thought lets go to the city ground and show Freedman just how well we have done without him and to be honest it kind of fell apart after the first slip by Twardzik and then by five yes five (count them on youtube highlights) players watched the forest lad run by them and score. I was all set to leave there and then but stayed to watch the first half and most of the second half, it was a very painful afternoon and on Monday at work I will get it from the forest fans.
We do still have enough games to go and players to get us out of this mess but it will be a rough old ride so hold tight and just try to enjoy it
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Post by whitesince63 on Feb 22, 2015 13:12:18 GMT
Whites since 63, you have missed my intended point though I do think you are being harsh re DFalthough I don't at root disagree with you. But I don't care about DF. I'll readily concede all that to you even the hyperbole re worst - we have had some shockers in the 80s! My focus is concern re Neil Lennon and the team now. He has McNaughton sitting on his bum! He proclaimed a front foot strategy and then upset the balance of the whole team to counter Antonio.He got cross with his own players. He made chaotic in match decisions. Heskey centre half? Clough captain? Before everyone descends and misunderstands so far he's done well and excitingly so. He operates with passion and imagination. I actually approve of experimentation. I also get his being so fed up yesterday as to lose interest. None of that is terminal. He is still learning But to praise him or compare him favourably to DF or any manager- today and yesterday are not the days for it We are in fast free fall. Now is the time to show his mettle.! Sorry if I missed your essential point Andy but I think I was just letting off a bit of steam regarding Freedman who I dislike with a passion. Rather like rftr I'm a little disappointed that people seem to be losing faith with Lennon already. He's done more in his short time here to show he has what it takes than Freedman ever did. I'm sure that he's just giving the current squad an opportunity to really show if they've got it and so far it's clear they haven't. I think Lennon already knows that and will deal with it in The summer but for now I have no worries over the drop, he has recruited at least enough to keep us up and if we can get Pratley and Mark Davis back soon all could look much better.
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Post by andyl on Feb 22, 2015 14:20:02 GMT
I assure you that I'm not losing faith nor did I with Megson,Coyle and DF until near their end of tenure. But in my opinion NL contributed to yesterday's debacle. He is not entitled to unswerving praise?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 16:12:04 GMT
I assure you that I'm not losing faith nor did I with Megson,Coyle and DF until near their end of tenure. But in my opinion NL contributed to yesterday's debacle. He is not entitled to unswerving praise? Agree 100% with you Andy ,never since miss boardman picked a team at my junior school have seen such daft selections , I said in an earlier post that NL was on a steep learning curve and that has been proved with his insistence on playing 3/5/2 there is simply not enough quick players to use that system and in my opinion he should revert to 4/4/2 ,tues is going to be very interesting .
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Post by andyl on Feb 22, 2015 16:34:19 GMT
I agree owdonlad and we are leaking goals and chances as a result. We stole a march against Sheffield Wed and did well v Liverpool . Otherwise we have been dismantled too easily. And your point about pace v three is a good one
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Post by joanna on Feb 22, 2015 19:15:35 GMT
Seems to me that our recent decline coincides with the loss of Chungy and Pratley who, along with Lonergan, were the key figures in our impressive run of early results under NL.
Don't forget, though, that it is not long ago that we were pretty much all agreed that Lennon was getting so much more from virtually every player in the squad. As fans, we must boost their confidence; don't undermine it just when we have proved that, once injury-free again, we can do well under Lennon's guidance. Saturday apart, our games are so much more watchable than the turgid dross on display under DF.
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Post by andyl on Feb 22, 2015 20:47:48 GMT
The comparison we might like to consider here is not with the DF era. It's with the early phase of the Coyle era!
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Post by spanishjonny on Feb 22, 2015 21:19:28 GMT
Reality is very dissapointing, the recrutment of Heskey and Gudjonson and the discovery of Clough has kept us out of the Wigan and Blackpool situation. We have, at the moment, a mid table squad that after the first Liverpool game ran out of the bit of luck that every team needs to progress. After Middlesborough on Tuesday, when I fear another loss, with key players back Lennon should be able to steady the ship and see us to a top half finnish
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Post by OohMac on Feb 22, 2015 22:24:13 GMT
Weirdly enough, Dougies last two games involving Bolton have both seen us losing 4-1 and this performance was a typical Dougie one. Too much tinkering, too many round pegs in square holes, not enough chances created, had 20+ chances against, ill disciplined, conceded a penalty and played a striker in defence. Can't really deny it, this was as bad as that Fulham game, which seems a long time ago now.
This does look very much like Coyle'd reign. His appointment met with euphoria and The Reebok was happy again, Coyle could do no wrong until one or two injuries and he was unable to stop the rut. The free-fall we went on was remarkable and here we are again. Fans back on side, players happy but 4/5 games we've looked shocking. Can Lennon fix it where Coyle failed, not sure but think so. The interviews he gives makes little excuses(though he has commented on refereeing decisions a little too much recently) he knows this is not good enough, he knows we are "soft" and i'm sure he will ship out were he needs to.
The defence doesn't work. For all Mills and Wheaters grit they're exposed to any player with any pace. Stick them in against Andy Carroll and Peter crouch and they'll give a good account of themselves, if a team play it on the deck they're lost. Dervite, i still have question marks over. Erratic. Ream also looks a soft touch at times and does anyone know his best position. Moxey, not good enough. McNaughton can't get in, due to loan signings, doesn't get a sniff. Bad example as we actually subbed a keeper on Saturday but how many times does a keeper get subbed off. Once/twice a season. Could we not put a youth team keeper on the bench to make way for McNaughton.
We still need to remember the ambitions we had when Lennon took over. 1. To stay in this league. We all got carried away and now we're forgetting what a tough job he was asked to do. The injuries, jeez, never seen the like. Again whether that's burnout from not rotating or just bad luck i'm not sure, but that just adds to the toughness of the job.
So conclusion. Neil get on with the job of keeping us up, anything else is a bonus but we cannot go on shipping goals like this, or we will go down. No doubt, 6 points off. That could be achieved in one week in this league.
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