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Post by socalwanderers on Apr 22, 2014 20:52:32 GMT
They should offer all fans who attended tonight's game a full refund!! 38% possession at home!!!
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Post by riochforthereebok on Apr 22, 2014 20:54:35 GMT
I just wonder if Doug Freedman can use tonight's defeat and watching Leicester crowned champions on our turf, as a motivator in the same way Nigel Pearson has done following their slip up last season??
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Post by socalwanderers on Apr 22, 2014 20:56:06 GMT
What kind of sicko would do that??
Your probably right though...
DF out!!!
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Post by realtrottersforever on Apr 22, 2014 21:42:22 GMT
Did anyone understand the formation for tonight's game? I didn't and the players certainly didn't.
Off tonight's showing I wouldn't know whether White was a decent player or not, cos he was hung out to dry by Freedman in that first half. He comes into a team and has to play a system we have never played before against the champions elect and he hardly had a touch of the ball, he was left for dead so many times, turned this way and that and just didn't get in any tackles what so ever. He was rightly replaced at half time, but why didn't we have someone more able that Mills to put at right back??
How we only lost 1-0 is a mystery they had so much of the ball and corner after corner.
I hear there are rumours that we are offering Wheater in exchange for Jutkewitz, well tonight proved he may be a loan striker, but he is not a lone striker....boom boom, he needs someone to play off and he was more effective after Beckford was brought on. I hope those rumours, if proved correct, don't mean we are opening the door slightly to the idea of retaining Zat Knight!!
The match was dross from start to finish and I really fear for next season.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Apr 22, 2014 21:45:59 GMT
This is it now RTF Years of football in the wilderness If we get to stay in the Chumpionship for the next 5 years we'll be doing well
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Post by realtrottersforever on Apr 22, 2014 21:47:32 GMT
Oh and we can hold our own against the top clubs in this league ...according to Dougie.......updated stats
won - 0, drawn - 7, lost - 11
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Post by andyl on Apr 22, 2014 22:10:38 GMT
I was more impressed with Leicester than at the KingPower. They swamp midfield and move wide delightfully. They have turned out to be worthy champions and credit to them. BUT despite modest possession we had a good strategy against them- far better than in the previous game. We had some splendid breakaways and could , perhaps should have won 4-1. For all their possession they only had one chance when we went to sleep after missing one of our own, left a man alone and onside and enabled him to go on two on one with Mills to release Dyer for a really good winner.
I can't make up my mind whether it's fair to criticise Jutkiewicz overly because he part fashioned two of the three great chances he squandered with poor finishing. And much the same goes for Beckford who was bright and lively when he came on thumping a fierce shot just wide and high but then tapping a glorious chance tamely to Schmeichel after doing all the hard work to be in position. If these two had been able to finish we would have won outright. The bottom line though with Jutkiewicz is that he is badly unfit. Every burst of action left him hands on knees or prostrate and his strength lacked at the vital moments.
Prior to the match it had been reported that DF was not going to use his young players except maybe loanee Robinson, so par for DF I guess we had to expect him to field several but not Robinson. Why does he do it? We set up with three centre backs and White and Ream as wing backs. I think it worked pretty well. We had a couple of flank scares but had the width to offset Leics. Bogdan was in dominant form and with quick releases usually to the thoughtful Trotter we also began to have some good breakaways. Hall was inventive and quite penetrative. To have played with two up top against them would have been disastrous. As it was they seemed to have six or seven in midfield But Trotter and especially Spearing were playing well and competing.
In the second half the game opened up. DF had withdrawn White at half time and this paved the way for Dyer to be brought on against the known Mills. I wonder if DF had left well alone for twenty more minutes whether we would have maintained the 0-0. But anyway it opened out for us too. Chungy who had struggled to keep possession early on broke through, tricked his way past two men and pulled the ball back to Jutkiewicz's left foot. He pulled his shot wide. It was a crucial miss yet not the last
Trotter faded from view in the second half as did Hall who gave way fro Kellett and after another strange choice by Chungy volleying from a wide angle he was hooked for Lester
So how did White, Kellett and Lester play? Quite encouragingly I think. White looked a bit lost at times but was well protected by the three centre halves. He had a brief to go forward but wasn't trusted with enough passes. He all but burst through once only to have Jutkiewicz assert seniority to no good effect. Kellett was the most impressive. He was tricky, energetic and skilful. Again Ream several times ignored the pass to him. But he did well and his efforts led to a couple of half chances. Lester had less opportunity but was eager and quick. They brought a welcome energy to things and helped to keep us in the game. So ( at last!!) credit to DF for giving them a go and also for helping to make the game one of the more interesting we have seen this year. We could well have won it. With Mason on board I think we would have I just wonder if He'd gone the whole hog and brought A young striker on before Beckford whether we might have got the goal
Bogdan 9. ( excellent in every way) White 5 Mills 7 Knight 6 Wheater 7 Ream 6 Trotter 6 CYL 6 Hall 6 Jutkiewicz 5 ( can't get a good mark missing three fantastic chances) Beckford 5 ( ditto) Kellett 7. Lester 5
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Post by realtrottersforever on Apr 22, 2014 22:36:21 GMT
AndyL have you been replaced by an attack of the body snatchers? How can you possibly think we could have won the game 4-1 and that they only had one chance and yet you have given Bogdan 9 (excellent in every way), Bogdan made at least 2 good saves (he can't be excellent if he's done nothing), Wheater cleared one off the line, Knight very nearly scored an own goal and they were just as wasteful as we were.
They had 20 shots to our 12, 7 of their shots were on target to our 4 but you seem to think that we could have won it 4-1 surely we should have lost it 7-4. They had 13 corners to our 5, a ridiculous number of corners to give away when you are at home. we had only 38% of the possession and have now gone 180 minutes without scoring a goal, but you think we could easily have won the game 4-1. That's DF style reasoning that every chance we get could have been a goal, but every chance they had wasn't going to be.
Even Jack Dearden (according to my b/f) was saying on GMR couldn't believe the game was still 0-0 prior to them scoring and he's usually as biased as anything.
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Post by joanna on Apr 22, 2014 22:57:42 GMT
Well said, RTF. Good thing the women on here are rational and shame we can't call on Julie for support.
Andy, has "thoughtful" as in your description of Trotter, become a euphemism for "bone idle" or "invisible"?
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Post by andyl on Apr 22, 2014 22:58:11 GMT
Rtf I thought Bogdan made some excellent saves to well hit shots from distance and yes we had a bit of luck with Knight's deflections (two) and a bizarre header into the ground and over the bar! But that had little to do with them! I also credit Bogdan with two catches of crosses that he would never have gone for earlier in the season. He's a changed man. The save where he pushed a viciously swerving and dipping long shot wide of his right post was much better than it may have appeared.. He had a good all round game. Indeed our best first half chance came after a simple roll out to Trotter in central midfield. BUT we had four gilt edged chances much better than they had. Jutkiewicz should have had a hat trick, Beckford's miss was embarrassing. If your argument is that they were appreciably better than us, I agree but mine is that despite that we had the better chances to win the game. I'd go further I think the four chances we missed were some of the best we have had this season. And I thought the three centre back plus wing back line up showed promise. I've been hoping to see it for two seasons, Tonight it was insurance for White but also a response to how they play and indeed how they destroyed us there in successive seasons when Dyer made a fool of both Butterfield and Baptiste
More generally I think the continual and repeated criticisms of DF miss the point certainly re this game. Here he was creative, picked a strategy that delivered a good game and all but won it and gave three young players a run out against testing opposition in an end of season game. I'm happy to criticise him for his public utterances and for a number of odd choices through the year and for not playing homegrown or developed young players but tonight from me he gets praise for getting it right. With fit and clear headed strikers we should have won but alas we had Jutkiewicz and Beckford who fluffed their lines.
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Post by andyl on Apr 22, 2014 23:16:59 GMT
Joanna , were you at either Charlton or the Reebok tonight. Trotter will never be flavour of the month for everyone, I can see that but in these two games he competed well and some of his passing and space finding is excellent. Surely I can't be the only one to have noticed . He faded a bit in the second half tonightbut still kept a very good position when they were attacking. He has a presence in midfield. You'll be telling me next that you yearn for the return of Pratley? I for one want to see more of the passing fluency we are at last achieving. Yes they were better. They are the runaway champions! But we had phases of play often involving Trotter where we were really good too
And as for the claim to Sapphic rationality! And by implication the superiority of said rationality over we blind and emotional male posters weighed down by myopia and childish irrationality... OMG.. Whatever...
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Post by realtrottersforever on Apr 22, 2014 23:28:59 GMT
The only reason he went with the strategy he did, was because Baptiste pulled out at the last minute with an injury, otherwise he would probably have gone with the tried and tested 4 at the back with Knight being on the bench. It was no great master plan.
How can you say that Bogdan pulled off 2 great saves (which I agree he did) and yet say we had the more gilt edged chances. I don't remember Schmichel making any fantastic saves and you are assuming that the misses we had would defo have been goals if they had been on target. Yes we had some glaring misses, but they had more, did you not read the stats? Admittedly the Knight near own goal was not their effort and would not have counted in the stats but was due to pressure from them.
They had 20 shots, 12 on target that means they missed 8
We had 7 shots with 4 being on target missing 3 others
Most of the time they were playing with us.
We had a mere 38% possession!!!!
We have still not won one game against a top 9 side, even teams below us in the table have a better record than we do against these sides.
We have a poor manager who only ever sees the positives and discounts all the negatives.
You cannot say that all our chances could have been goals and their's wouldn't have been. All ours weren't and one of their's was and that's all that matters really. The best team won on the day and if we had taken anything from that game it would have been a travesty.
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Post by andyl on Apr 23, 2014 6:00:41 GMT
If Baptiste was injured that's disappointing. The formation was a good one and restricted a good Leics side to very little in the first half. Mind , can we trust DF to be truthful?
Yes the best team won. They were uninhibited even in added time and they did everything well except perhaps their flank defending on the right.
I sit in North Upper and from that view would persist in saying that we had four excellent close in shooting chances . One was tapped to him by Beckford , another The labouring Jutkiewicz screwed wide and a third saw Jutkiewicz fire weak footed with his right foot to the near post when anything across Schmeichel was in. These three in particular were really bad misses. I can't remember them having a bad miss at all. For the most part despite the corners we held them at distance and we cut out their crosses well albeit with the habitual ten back at corners.
Yes we deserved to lose and yes we are second best to the top teams in the Div ( in passing rtf compare our record v the bottom sides- that's actually very good) I'd love for us to be in the class of Leics but we aren't for all sorts of reasons not least finance.
If a counter attacking team picks off a better team 4 times and wins is that a travesty? I don't think so. We had the chances to win this despite being second best and if you don't take chances then you are just second best As a striker Jutkiewicz had a bad game. He should have had a hat trick. He did well to race clear of them for one chance that was tougher than the other three but still fired wide. Beckford hit a screamer. Good- on a par with them but having done all the hard work he made a pig's ear of the night's best chance
We have seen far worse defeats and draws at the Reebok this year
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Post by bonaparte on Apr 23, 2014 8:50:08 GMT
Andy, I usually like to see your comments and those of Joanna, they usually reflect my view of the game, but yours were not in line with my perceptions last night. Bogdan made 4 very showy and good saves and did make some catches he would not have made earlier in the season. He was slow to come out to help Mills, which may have cost us a goal, and his kicking, although improved is simply to hit Jutkiewicz, who was marked out and bundled out of the game. My marks 7. Trotter made two telling passes in the first half, and two equally awful ones to compensate. Thereafter he passed sideways or backwards. He never made a tackle, never broke sweat, left men unmarked by pointing to them for others to cover, and generally just ambled around the pitch. I can see why Millwall do not need him. My marks 4. Knight had one of those games we remember him for, dodgy clearances and lucky not to score an own goal. Marks 5. Spearing, who you did not mark, had a busy game and was at the heart of the little good play we had with Chungy and earlier Hall. 8 for him and 7 for the other 2 for me. DF usual 2, set up for a draw, with Kellett hung out to dry, who plays 5,4,1? Passing game, what passing game, same old pas pass pass lump forward. Can see combinations of Chungy, Beckford, Jutkiewicz, Hall, Dans, and Davies working as a front 4 diamond, with Spearing and Medo in support of a back four with Ream and Mills at the centre, but we do need two wing backs.
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Post by davidm on Apr 23, 2014 8:50:32 GMT
Definitely the proverbial “games of two halves” this one.
First 99% defence with little intention of attacking; second half FIVE glorious chances missed.
The line-up was odd to say the least. He’s tried various permutations but a back 5? (or was it a back 3 with 2 wing backs?).
Well, whatever it was, it didn’t work. We had 45 minutes of near all out defence. We just put 8 behind the ball, all 8 within 30 yards of our goal, and let Leicester have the ball.
We had one shot from Jutkiewicz which was straight at Schmeichel and that was it. The rest was endless Leicester possession and scrambles in our box. We deserved to go in 2 or 3 down.
Second half, he replaced Haydn White with Beckford and we looked like a team. We attacked, had chances and badly missed them. Jutkiewicz missed 3 really good chances and then Beckford missed 2. Schmeichel didn’t need to stretch himself to save.
There was an inevitability about their goal but we messed up badly to start the move. Schmeichel wellied the ball deep into our half on the left wing and we just left it. Presumably we thought it was going out but Nugent didn’t. He bust a gut to keep it in and rolled it back to Dyer who easily cut inside our right back (Mills of all people) and sent a screamer into the far corner. It was a goal worthy of winning a championship but we helped them by some awful casual football.
We pressed quite well but everyone knew that we wouldn’t score and Leicester deservedly won the match.
Overall, a shocking first half for which Freedman deserves slaughtering and then a positive second half in which we should have scored.
Marks:-
Bogdan - 7 Some good blocks. Good catches from crosses/corner. One horrendous mistake in the first half when he let a shot squirm from his body and sneek just wide.
White - 4 Looked so out of his depth. Played as a wing back and, fair play to him. He got forward well but was largely ignored by his team mates. Defensively, he scared me each time the ball came near him.
Mills - 5 Along with Knight and Wheater, he made some terrible defensive headers/clearances. Ball were being cleared to just 5 yards outside our box in absolute panic. Drew the short straw in having to play right back in the second half.
Knight - 5 All 3 of our centre back looked like stumps as Leicester just ran round them. Nearly scored an own goal with a crazy header in first half. Please please do not give him a new contract.
Wheater - 5 Cumbersome. He got turned so many times by nippy forwards.
Ream - 6 Not shown up as much as the back 3 but, as a wing back, did not get forward enough.
Spearing - 5 Outclassed by a much better midfield. He is tigerish which I admire but his passing was poor.
Trotter - 4 I know that AndyL will argue with me about this player but he is slow, hardly ever plays a positive ball. Another who I pray doesn’t get a contract but I fear that the deal is already done.
CYL - 6 His first 3 touches were terrible but he improved and played some good football on the break. I need him to be more positive though.
Hall - 6 Tried hard but was up against a hard defence who bossed him.
Jutkiewicz - 5 As usual, worked really hard but his shooting boots were missing.
Beckford - 5 Same as Jutkiewicz, worked hard but couldn’t shoot for toffee.
Kellet - 6 A bit of promising with some positive play. Looks very small/ slight though
Lester - 5 Little time to show anything.
Manager - 4 (2 for the first half but 5 for the second). A defeatist attitude in the first half summed up all I dislike about our manager. We conceded the game in the first 45 minutes when, in reality, we could have had a go at them. Credit for a positive second half but I hold little hope for next season with this man in charge.
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