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Post by riochforthereebok on Feb 3, 2024 18:45:01 GMT
I agree chip, I think if we’d had Rico and certainly Jones too it would have been a different game. I think we’ve realised with him missing just how important Gethin is and hopefully if fit ready to return on Tuesday with Toal taking the Rico role. Personally I’d stick with Dion and Vic up front but I’d play Collins behind them in the 10 role and leave Maghoma out of midfield who for me delivers little. It’s early days and whilst I haven’t actually seen Collins yet, just listened, he seemed to immediately make a difference so hopefully he can give us that little bit of quality we’re lacking. I wonder if IE will have second thought about an offer for Victor if the interested party come back again? You’d hope so after today but I’m sure if they watched him maybe not? Have to win on Tuesday now and take advantage of our games in hand so we need to be much better than today which hopefully we will be? ‘Take advantage of our games in hand’ I don’t know what it is W63, but we never looked destined to depose Portsmouth from that top spot and we e had enough chances to do it We have to start getting the ball in the net more and we have to start turning these draws into wins Portsmouth had a man sent off at 2-0, what happened next? They went on to score 2 more. Maybe that’s why they’re sitting top It must be Evatt’s style that is somehow stifling our front 2’s abilities to score!! Is it all this 60-70% possession and over passing that’s doing it I wonder? Pompey won with 49% possession
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Post by chip on Feb 3, 2024 19:11:48 GMT
Possession doesn’t get you more points unless we score more goals it’s not rocket science COYWM
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Post by davidm on Feb 3, 2024 19:29:03 GMT
We have to start getting the ball in the net more and we have to start turning these draws into wins We've only drawn 4 games - the second lowest number in the league!
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Post by davidm on Feb 3, 2024 19:29:19 GMT
You have to be happy with a point from that game.
We started slowly (AGAIN!) and took a long time to pick up. Then we finished the final 10 minutes well on top with Barnsley hanging on but, in all honestly, we could, probably should, have been 2 or 3 down by that stage.
Our usual slow start at home cost us again. Barnsley had a throw in level with the penalty box. They sent all their big men up indicating a long throw but instead throw it to the near post where it was headed on and touched in. I need to see it again to determine blame but it was a really poor defensive goal.
Like other sides have done, Barnsley decided to single Sheehan out for rough treatment and 4 or 5 of their players unceremoniously chopped him whether he got the ball. It worked to a degree as he couldn’t control play.
We dropped into our slow play out from the back tactic and although we had loads of the ball, we barely got nearer to their goal than 25 yards out. Barnsley were happy to wait for us to lose possession and then break.
They had a couple of decent chances, the best one being when Sheehan was caught in possession and they finished up with 4 against 2. They played through us but the final shot was awful and went 5 yards wide. It was a tale of the first half though in that Barnsley looked twice as dangerous as us even though we had most of the ball.
For the 2nd half, it was hoped that the manager had got into them and geed them up but we started terribly.
We continued to play passing the ball between keeper and the back 3 but Barnsley pressed us so well, it was embarrassing. We managed to lose the ball 3 or 4 times and leave them in with great chances which either Baxter saved well or they missed.
It got to the stage where the crowd were groaning every time we tried and failed to pass it out from the back.
We were fortunate at this stage not to be 2 or 3 down.
Somehow we survived and the game changed when we replaced Charles and Adeboyejo with Bodvarsson and Collins. We started to keep the ball upfield and managed to press.
We got our equaliser when Collins got the ball on the right and slung over a cross to the far side for Ashworth to come in and win a header to score. A well taken goal with credit to both Ashworth and Collins.
From then on, we pressed but couldn’t grab a winner. Collins had a shot deflected which somehow the keeper tipped round the post.
As I said, we have to be happy with a point as it was an up and down performance – some good bits and some dreadful amateurish mess ups.
Marks:-
Baxter - 6 A few really good saves but complicit in the near kamikaze defending early in the 2nd half.
Dacres-Cogley - 6 Did OK but wasn’t able to get the ball into the box very often
Toal - 6 Part of the mass chaos at the start of the 2nd half.
Taylor - 6 Went down with cramp. Did OK but headed a corner wide from a glorious position.
Iredale - 6 Some decent defending. Another one who headed over from a corner
Ashworth - 7 A couple of good corners that deserved something and then took his goal well
Sheehan - 6 Barnsley decided to kick him every time he got the ball. Unfortunately it had an effect and his game was littered with some poor passes
Dempsey - 6 Had some real good forward runs including one great pass across the box but couldn’t dominate the midfield
Maghoma - 5 Just too casual again. He often seems to stand back and let the opposition have the ball. Shot well over from a great position late on
Adeboyejo - 4 His ball control was awful. The ball just bounced all over the show from him.
Charles - 5 Worked very hard. Not much came off for him
Bodvarsson - 7 The change in the flow of the game when he and Collins came on was noticeable
Collins - 7 Lovely centre for the goal. Made an impact and also almost scored late on but the keeper made a great save from a deflected shot
Morley - 5 Yet again, it was hard to see what influence he made on the game when he came on
Ramsay - 6 OK but not much time to do much
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Post by OohMac on Feb 3, 2024 19:33:48 GMT
For large parts I really don't know what we were doing. Literally going from goal kick to giving them a golden chance within 2 or 3 misplaced passes. It should have been 4 down before we made the changes.
We went more direct at one point Baxter pushing up the defenders at a goal kick which got the biggest cheer of the day until the goal.
I said Evatt would be able to leave Vic and Dion up for this week without any fallout. I now think Collins needs to start.
Poor games for Iredale, Sheehan, Maghoma, Dempsey, Charles, Victor.
Positives Ashworth, Ramsay, Collins.
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Post by davidm on Feb 3, 2024 19:37:36 GMT
One extra point!
We must have a sub keeper on the bench.
That was such a worry today when Baxter went down injured.
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Post by andyl on Feb 3, 2024 19:38:52 GMT
That was so hard to watch! We had a kamikaze 15 mins in the second half of brainless slow passing and they could and should have scored two three. Baxter made three excellent saves thankfully but he caused loads of problems. I think the first half knock hampered him.
First half we were well on top. Dempsey was excellent, Sheehan also prompted right sided attacks well as did Dacres- Cogley and Toal. It all came to naught. Adeboyejo was dreadful. For a big man he has minimal power. But he also gets in all the wrong places and as for his control. He had one Cheltenham style chance but opted out with a poor pass to Charles.
Charles to was really off key. One dreadful shot. He also lost possession poorly sometimes in defence.
It was very noticeable that all our attacks came from the right. Full marks to Ashworth for the goal but in general play he was a cul de sac. All too often attacking position were spurned in favour of three pass moves back to Baxter
Enter Collins. He reminded me a bit of Andy Walker, the same upright, watching gait and the accuracy of choices. He assisted Ashworth, assisted Maghoma even better for his sky rocket shot and his shot that the keeper seemed to just reach looked bound for the top corner.
Bodvarsson, better than Adeboyejo also struggled save for his immediate contribution to the eqaliser.
We missed Thomason, all but threw it away and were ultra frustrating. Up to Evatt now to get team selection right- four winnables pend.
Pet hate- so many players getting caught in possession needlessly.
Pluses Collins and Ramsay? I thought Ramsay did very well!
Baxter 7 ( for saves) Dacres- Cogley 6 Toal 7 Taylor 4 Iredale 4 Ashworth 6 Dempsey 8 Maghoma 6 Sheehan 5 ( with two deductions) Charles5 Adeboyejo 2 Collins 8 Bodvarsson 5 Ramsey 7
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Post by whitesince63 on Feb 4, 2024 9:40:39 GMT
I don’t think we should read too much negativity into yesterday with the defence so mixed up, especially one that had never played or even trained together. All being well both Gethin and Will Forester will be back soon which should help defensively even if Rico’s out for a few weeks. Starting Taylor was for me a mistake but it’s easy to say that after the event. For Tuesday I’d have Toal at CH with Gethin and Iredale alongside and until we see what Ogbeta can do we need to have Ashworth at LWB. We should also have George back who we missed badly but it’s up front where the worries are. Both Charles and Victor are out of form with Dion clearly suffering from his recent misses, he seems to have lost all confidence whilst Victor is just Victor but even worse. His first touch is I think the worst I’ve ever seen and having defended him regularly I just can’t see him improving so I don’t think we’d miss him even if an offer did come in for him as he adds little or nothing, especially now we have Collins. So I think at Cambridge it’s Dion and Collins to start and if necessary a later change for Bod and CJ as usual. After dropping two points yesterday a win is essential because until you do win them games in hand mean nothing.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Feb 4, 2024 11:57:04 GMT
Bit surprised at Evatt’s dig at the crowd for cheering the long kick out from Baxter
We were under immense pressure whenever we played out from the back and I don’t know about you but my nerves were in bits with Toal Taylor and Iredale playing pass ball with Baxter only to look over the shoulder and see Cole McAtee Kane and Phillips breathing down your neck.
Apart from Rico being able to have cleaned up on their early goal, as I do believe it wouldn’t have gone in, the high press would have been a real problem had he been playing as he’s not comfortable with this system at all when physical teams like Barnsley come to town.
So do forgive us Ian if we cheered that long boot downfield as all their attacking men were waiting for a ‘play out from the back’ cock up
I also think Aaron would profit from a few of these per game but it’s time to ask some serious questions on what’s gone wrong with Dion?? Vic is just out and out rubbish and not much upgrade on Kachunga
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Post by whitesince63 on Feb 4, 2024 14:27:45 GMT
I don’t think Victors rubbish rioch just not suited to Evatt’s system. I’ve said before that Victor is a box player and if you play him there he’ll score goals as he did for Burton. He isn’t a chaser like Dion and he’s certainly not a hold up player like Bod and he’s not even a physical player who uses his strength so no matter how much Evatt has tried to adapt him it’s just not going to happen and in a way I feel sorry for him because I believe in a different team under a different manager you’d see a different player. I really hope there is another bid from abroad for him because no matter how much Evatt tries to fit him in it isn’t going to happen I’m afraid and it might do both parties good to have a split? Collins on the other hand looks exactly an Evatt player, skilful, intelligent and composed who can both hold the ball up, pass it, shoot and create, so for me he looks excellent value for money and a good fit for the team. Based on that I’m not sure where Victor fits in because surely the starting pair now will be Dion and Aaron and with the need to hold up the ball and take pressure off late in the game that’s hardly suitable for Vic. Evatt obviously got this one wrong and should accept that and allow Victor to leave and if we can get anything above half what we paid I think we’ll have done well.
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Post by OohMac on Feb 4, 2024 15:25:22 GMT
Bit surprised at Evatt’s dig at the crowd for cheering the long kick out from Baxter We were under immense pressure whenever we played out from the back and I don’t know about you but my nerves were in bits with Toal Taylor and Iredale playing pass ball with Baxter only to look over the shoulder and see Cole McAtee Kane and Phillips breathing down your neck. Apart from Rico being able to have cleaned up on their early goal, as I do believe it wouldn’t have gone in, the high press would have been a real problem had he been playing as he’s not comfortable with this system at all when physical teams like Barnsley come to town. So do forgive us Ian if we cheered that long boot downfield as all their attacking men were waiting for a ‘play out from the back’ cock up I also think Aaron would profit from a few of these per game but it’s time to ask some serious questions on what’s gone wrong with Dion?? Vic is just out and out rubbish and not much upgrade on Kachunga That's why I don't really get on with Evatt. At that time Barnsley just pressed us and should have been 3 up at least. Going direct created miles more chances for us. Even if Evatt said they have dominating centre backs we got our fair change from then and when they cleared the ball it fell in a good position for us. Playing Evatts A game way we never got out of our half. I'm a bit baffled because you'd assume we want them to press us. Then we get them out of position and hit those quick bunch of passes and we're passed them. But we were so uncomfortable with the press and we never looked for that out ball to start an attack. I can't see us selling Vic because Evatt plays 4 strikers every match. 60m for 2 and 30+ for the other two. No matter what. So we need 4 capable. Jerome isn't an option now. He's just not. Mendes Gomes, someone said it was harsh to say he's been disappointing. I can't think of any other way. Unused sub for a game where we're trying to win. Think Cambridge will be tougher. Lyle Taylor is on form for them. Not sure why a player of his quality ended up there. Gethin Jones has done well really. He's returned after getting decent game time. We're no worse off (apart from exiting the cups) and no one has taken his place off him. He'll slot straight back in I expect.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Feb 4, 2024 17:39:21 GMT
Just watching Arsenal v Liverpool and Liverpool have not laid a punch on Arsenal, all they’ve done is pass themselves to death, but wouldn’t you know it, it’s been all Arsenal and Pool get a very fortuitous equaliser
You can see how Evatt must study Man City and Liverpool games to effectively target 60-70% possession in n games
I’m name dropping now but a very good friend of mine (Rugby League manager) once watched a recorded rugby game St Helen’s v Hull, it took him 7 hours to watch it!!
Stop, start, pause, rewind, pause again, rewind, pause again!!! I was sat in his house for 10 minutes and I’d had enough 😳😳 Is this what football managers do? Evatt must, as our games are like watching City and Liverpool without the quality
Not sure why Klopp dropped Bradley though as TTA hasn’t really been doing it in this game
Edit
Apologies I’ve just read about Conor Bradley and his terrible loss
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Post by andyl on Feb 4, 2024 19:43:39 GMT
I have just watched back Barnsley's goal. Dempsey I think is beaten to the header- no real blame. Taylor is attracted to the ball out of the centre and is lost. Maghoma ball watches and lets Cole past. Iredale, I think is rooted to the post. I agree that plays differently with Santos. Because he is known not to be able to jump and head or mark a man he always takes station centrally as a free man. He would use his size to get something to it or block. Essentially Taylor lost concentration or hadn't had time to learn the brief.
Re the Baxter ball to Toal/Iredale or pass to Sheehan under pressure...I agree with IE that passing is better than hoofing and transition and argued as much from Freedman to Hill inclusive! However players must have discretion not to take risks if the state of the game warrants. The Arsenal Liverpool game is mentioned above. Arsenal are renowned for passing out under pressure and have at times merited reference as exemplars of undue messing about. Note that every goal kick was passed sideways to Raya who then launched forward to Havertz with second ball pick ups a fair bit of the time. They changed their tactics because it was Liverpool! If it's good enough for Arsenal to show flexibility why not BWFC..if situation demands- methinks the crowd often knows best?
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Post by riochforthereebok on Feb 5, 2024 10:33:51 GMT
Just watched the short highlights of Exeter’s 2-1 victory at Oakwell (could have been 4-1) to see what Exeter did differently to our attempts at beating Barnsley
Exeter weren’t shy of shooting for a start and they battled them with the same brute force the Tykes did on us. You can also see where Cole’s goals tend to come from as well, from long humps downfield from the keeper or the back four
Sure, Barnsley like to raise their game when they come to our stadium as do others
I am grateful of the point as it should have been a loss on the chances they had, but these are the games we should be claiming the wins from as it’s going to be tougher in the league above
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Post by Pedro on Feb 6, 2024 7:28:11 GMT
From BN today: "Evatt has developed a possession-based style over the last three seasons but it has not always been met with universal approval from the fanbase. But the manager pointed towards three successive years of improvement and the league table, in which Wanderers still boast the best points-per-game record in the division, as proof that his methods are working. “It isn’t going to change – I can tell you that much – we are going to stick to our principles,” he said.
“There is methodology behind it, we are doing it to gain an advantage, we are not doing it for vanity.
“We need everyone to buy into it and support them. I don’t think it is helpful when there are moans and groans and kicking long certainly isn’t helpful because it tends to play to opposition strengths." Oh dear, stubborn and still delusional.
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