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Post by whitesince63 on Nov 17, 2021 22:43:22 GMT
I don’t think I’ve ever been as embarrassed in my life by our football team, that was just beyond belief. Anything you could do wrong tonight we did. We can’t pass, we can’t tackle, we can’t cross, can’t take corners or free kicks, have no heart, don’t battle, I just don’t know where we go from here. We were weak in both mind and body tonight but all that said, County we’re magnificent, even after giving us a start and losing 1-3, they still never wavered and kept believing and coming at us, just brilliant. We’ll done to them and good luck in the next round.
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Post by OohMac on Nov 17, 2021 23:06:44 GMT
I dont think ive seen such an inept, bad performance as that ever. Sure we have been beaten by wider margins (and we didnt actually lose the match) but theres no defence for that. Speaking of no defence. What an absolute horrorshow.
Dixon- despite them being dominant, there wasnt that much to do. But what he did he did poorly. A bad keeper with Crellism creeping in. But a solid 2/10
Isgrove- Not a defender. Gave away a penalty but we went 3-1 up and should have been forgotten about but wasnt. 3/10
Santos- cleared some balls from set pieces. Ok on set pieces but crossing a ball from open play and Santos is all at sea. 3/10.
Johnson- pathetic. Never a centre half. Should be embarassed. Another evatt recruit that flatters to deceive. I dong think he deserves a single point so 0/10.
John- shocking. Not alone but did they wear studs in the boots. All over the place. Another 0/10.
Thomason- harsh lesson. Youve replaced MJ and youre clearly not ready. Too one footed and not got the hunger to step up. With regret 1/10.
Lee- 2
Sheehan 2
Afolayan - 2
Kachunga - 1. 1 is for the goal he helped go in off a deflection. True deflection is that he has a goal to deflect his absolute shocking performance tonight.
Baka - 4. Badly let down by colleagues. D
Subs were the worst ever subs imaginable.
Aimson 1 - where did he play? I still dont know.
Delfouenso 0 - why? Get out already. Give someone a chance. Delf has had his. Hes useless.
Amaechi- 3 if we practised set pieces he might be worth keeping.
Gordon n/a should have been brought on at 3-2 up as John was having a mare. Losing the game, trailing? Why not a young striker?
Ref 7- yeah fine,dont mind.
Ian Evatt a stinking zero- time to go i'm afraid. Hes a bad manager with ideas well above his stations. Deluded. Blamed Phoenix last season for poor recruitment even though it came from players he knew. Recruitment again looks poor.
I have zero faith now in the Evatt project.
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Post by one2many on Nov 18, 2021 9:08:28 GMT
I expected us to lose and so am not too disappointed. Genuinely happy for Stockport, they have suffered a lot over the years and deserve a good result. Didn't see the game but everyone is saying that Bolton were outplayed and poor, that worries me more than the result. Many players seem to be going backwards in their progress at present and all is clearly not well behind the scenes. Mystery illnesses, Sarcevic sale, Santos as captain vs Doyle etc. Might be a blip but I am getting bad vibes.....
Equally perhaps I am just over thinking it and our players are just bog average or crap with an inexperienced manager at the helm!
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Post by chip on Nov 18, 2021 10:31:42 GMT
So what do we say now 🤷♂️ Oh never mind we can concentrate on the league dah this was Stockport not a premier league team and they thrashed us good luck in the next round I’m to hurt to say what I really think as they wouldn’t print it just truly awful stay safe one and all COYWM
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Post by whitesince63 on Nov 18, 2021 10:59:06 GMT
Whilst there’s no excuses for last nights performance, we have no option but to give everyone the chance to put things right. Evatt deserves to at least be given the January window to improve things but he must be given the money to do it. It must be clear to everyone that we have zero penetration up front. Had Quigley been playing for us last night, I have no doubt the result would have been different but sadly we have nobody in the squad anything like him. Baka I’m afraid is poor and not one to keep and Doyle should be a squad player and no more. Most players underperformed last night but it doesn’t mean they’re bad players, just lacking confidence. Either that or there really is something bubbling behind the scenes. One thing I do question Evatt on though, is his constant reliance on Delfouneso, for me one of the laziest and most ineffective players ever to wear our shirt. He sends out young players like Politic and Darcy who both show more effort and ability than Fonz and since he’s always a bit player, would certainly have been more effective. Obviously Evatt sees that differently but if he’s going to survive here he has to make sure he brings in some quality in the coming window because nothing will change until he does.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Nov 18, 2021 11:30:40 GMT
Like I’ve said in the BN
I’ve been to Anfield and Highbury and seen us (as underdogs) take them on and beat them in their own back yard so, like some others, I’m genuinely pleased for County and hope they progress past Rotherham (play with heart and sole like last night and I see no reason why they cannot get the win)
Dixon 2 (keeper is only as good as his defence allows him to be) Isgrove 3 (kept running into brick walls rather than running through them) Santos 3 (Keown and Brotherton raving about his performance… why?) Johnston -1 (enough said) John -1 (see above) Sheehan 3 (got injured but never affected the game much) Thomason -2 (get rid) Lee 2 (industrious without a purpose) Kachunga 3 (took his goal really well and then faded, no, I mean, faded, badly) Bakayoko 1 (egg yolk would have performed better) Afolayan 2 (I think he’s getting caught up in the hype and thinks he’s too good for this level-sorry Dapo, this is your level)
Aimson -3 (ineffective and a pointless introduction to the game) Delfouneso 0 (I’m hoping he’s the first out the door in Jan closely followed by Gilks and Baps) Amaechi -6 (that’s right, minus 6. We’d have fared better if we’d dug up Don Ameichi from his resting place and laid him in the middle of the park
Ian Evatt - 10 (yep, minus 10. Out of his depth at this level and cannot change a game when it’s going pear shaped. Challinor was windmilling every kick from his side whilst Evatt just stood looking unperturbed, chewing his gum and looking glum, it was reminiscent of Rioch and Souness/ George Graham back in the day, Rioch animated, Souness deflated
Wycombe will show a reaction to losing to Hartlepool just see, I can see a 4-0 defeat
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Post by realtrottersforever on Nov 18, 2021 12:22:38 GMT
Have you all seen Santos mark out of 10 from Iles. 8. yes that EIGHT as the vidiprinter would type out shock scores. he may well have been our best player...although as Andy said..won plenty headers but still lapses for goals,and where's the leadership ?? maybe if Iles had to mark the opponents too , he might reach more balanced & fair marks. Quigley clear man of match, so if Santos is sooooo outstanding, their centre forward shouldn't be getting a kick. see Bobby Moore 1970 vs Brazil see Paul Mcgrath v Italy 1994. no we let a non-lge side get 5 past us. Quigley's 1st goal the header..Quigley walks/ghosts into the box, Johnston is already watching Madden. Santos seems to see Quigley but neither picks him up or delegates him to others !? their 3rd goal from a corner. partial blame to Santos. don't think it was his man yet doesn't seem to get a good jump on it, despite Keown waxing lyrical about his headers. like i've always thought, true aerially dominant guys like John Terry, Mcgrath or Beevers/Wheater or Ngotty etc are dominant in BOTH boxes..they score goals, Santos doesn't. 4th goal..Quigleys 2nd. again poor from both centre backs. is Santos is so dominant..let him deal with Quigley, but he doesn't. 5th goal. no idea what went on here. where was Johnston ? Santos again not organising. it's hardly Van Dijk stuff is it..a one man defence. when Van Dijk plays really well..thou shalt not pass. overall really surprised not seeing more from the likes of Lee & John. these were along with Afolayan, the players signed 2 leagues above from last year. they still should be capable at this level. you wonder has something happened . i've always seen Evatt as being as miserable as Freedman so could never see how his man management would work . he was very lucky not to have crowds in a year ago, passing it around the back losing to the likes of Oldham ,and drawing to Grimsby . he'd have got booed big style and he WOULD have reacted to it & patronised the fans. i've lost faith with Evatt a long long time ago..playing right backs at left wing totally unnecessarily (rather than players like Gnahoua or Isgrove who are both now playing at Lge 1 level) , Crellin taking ages to drop..after publically slating the young lad-...charming !!, playing 5 at the back way too long. painfully slow build up, the treatment of Darcy last year. blaming the signings last year on Phoenix.....partially yeah..but who signed Crellin, Delfouneso, Baptiste, Tom White. all with links to him or Gilks , Blackpool etc treatment of Gnahoua vs Elbouzedi. one he signed, presumably he didn't sign Gnahoua as he treated him . one was King Arthur to the fans...who played a pivotal role in the turnaround last year...great goal v Mansfield , and played well Exeter away. a real hot streak of form. with goals & assists. Gnahoua was joint top assister for us last season with 5. despite playing way less minutes than the other 2. 5 assists .2 goals. even Dapo only had 2 asists 1 goal in way more minutes than him (1400 v 900+ ). of course El Bouzedi has 0 goals , 0 assists, yet still kept getting minutes and bench positions ahead of Gnahoua. persona non grata as Brian Glanville would say. critics would say Gnahoua tailed off...well that's not surprising when you treat him like that. no articles bumming him up like he does to Santos ( and all that lightning pace of his !?) . I should add Gnahoua is just 1 assist behind the top assister even this season in Lge 1. with 4. top ranked have 5. www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/8/Seasons/8620/Stages/19795/PlayerStatistics/England-League-One-2021-2022
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Post by realtrottersforever on Nov 18, 2021 15:06:48 GMT
I know we had 1 or 2 missing, but John Rooney, ( Waynes brother ) & one of their better players was missing ( injured) last night. www.stockportcounty.com/john-rooney-named-national-league-player-of-the-year-again/2 years running National lge player of the year. 16 lge goals from attacking midfield, 17 the previous season with Barrow. i've been watching a fair bit of National lge this season on BTsport...surprisingly strong. Wrexham with American celeb owners & Parky as manager & Lge 2 topscorer from last yr, Paul Mullin, from Cambridge. also big City sized clubs like Notts County. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-59283017they set a National lge attendance record with almost 13k last week. other former lge clubs..grimsby , southend, torquay, chesterfield, Halifax, yeovil etc.
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Post by andyl on Nov 18, 2021 16:32:32 GMT
Re commentators' ignorance may I add to the mix the praise for Kachunga and Bakayoko in terms of their speed! !!!!!
Rtf's challenge to Santos's mark is valid but in my opinion nowhere near as strong as it should be. For the purposes of this post I am going to forget Johnson's horrible pass that led the first, Johnston being outmuscled on two other goals, Dixon getting himself into Noman's land on the 4th or not competing aerially for the 3rd. I'm ignoring the lack of a competitive equivalent of Williams or the endless backpassing, foolish releases by Dixon and other malfunctions by John , Isgrove and others . I want to focus entirely on Santos and why he lost us that game and is an unfit captain- Evatt's greatest blindspot.
1. Most of the time the playing out from the back involves Santos stroking accurate but ridiculously slow and ponderous passes, hospital passes at times to marked up midfielders and defenders
2. Goal 1- we know that Santos is hopeless aerially in both boxes. Here he gets under an easy headed clearance and projects it upwards with no distance. Isgrove, credit to him, has another go and gives it a good head. Santos and everyone else stands still. Isgrove goes to close his defender who rolls him and wins a penalty. Isgrove is not a full back but nevertheless was as good as anyone last night save for a tendency to run into brick walls but at least he ran. This goal happened because Santos fluffed the clearance.
3. Goal 2--the highlights reel scans to a view of Santos ambling back with 23 Quigley as the break occurs on the left. Quigley is just ahead. When the cross comes in Quigley has moved beyond Santos and dragged Johnston with him, Inexplicably Santos now facing forward and marking noone takes two paces forward- ball watching- a schoolboy error and has no idea where his man Quigley is and he is Santos' man because it was Santos who was tracking him ( not!)
4. Goal 3 straightforward - a corner. Santos jumps, gets under it and misses it. Goal. Johnston is actually being fouled by a shirt pull as all eyes are on Santos' glaring miss. Again it is classic ball watching and aerial misjudgement.
5. Goal 4 through ball- Quigley is very close to offside but again Santos is not in the play - he has moved the wrong way and taken his eyes off Quigley stranding Johnston with their responsibility. If Santos is goalside he easily traps Quigley offside if he moves up at the right time,but no he stands like a lummox, Johnston falls back and does his best but Quigly outmuscles him.
6. Almost the worst of all Santos is lumbering about and there is a far side break but not a fast one. Santos throws his hands up as if appealing. He then goes over towards the play but noticeably gives up and throws in the towel. had he sprinted for the goal line and covered Dixon he could perhaps have intercepted.
In sum, yes he got a few headers in and attracted media attention for it but he was at fault with all five goals exactly as he had been with all 4 Wigan goals. OK he's naive, inexperienced etc ( but captain because he's a nice guy and it will help his development ffs)--- on current form and last season until Gilks got a hold of his positioning he is performing at a level somewhere akin to Meite, Diawara, Kernigan, Cid and Dervite when central. Emile Heskey pitched into central half service at Notts F would be another benchmark if anyone was there that day ( David M , I think from memory?)
Meanwhile Johnston who wasn't great became the fall guy for Evatt's crazy risk taking possession game and because Santos left him with Quigley. The BN is way off the mark. If I had to mark it, the scores would be something as follows
Dixon 2 ( no presence) Isgrove 7 ( really gave it a spirited and good go and got a lot of tackles in, unlucky with the penalty) Santos (-5- we might have been better with Aimson there all the time) John 3 ( passing was dreadful , a minus score but he did get forward a bit. Johnston 4( not his best for sure but stood up and gave it a go, dropped in it constantly) Thomason 5( found out for sure but should not be the scapegoat- better players than him struggled to control the ball and at least he got stuck in to the end) Lee 5 ( some good touches but missed Williams and all too often lost the ball) Sheehan 5 ( was doing Ok until injury) Bakayoko 5 ( as ever only intermittent play) Dapo 4 ( poor game, lost interest but not his sort of pitch and no service) Amaechi 4 ( some flickers of potential and good corners but didn't really show)
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Post by westandlower on Nov 18, 2021 22:14:03 GMT
Andy. I'm surprised you apparently see Santos as equal to Meite, Diawara, Kernigan, Cid and Dervite. I'd take any of those rather than Santos. I rate him as a non-league CH and not a very good one at that - certainly as far as his performances this season go. Last year he looked good for L2 - he should at least appear competent this season but doesn't. Has something happened to affect his confidence I wonder? Maybe rumours of disquiet in the dressing room are true.
Pretty much agree with your marks for the rest of the team. John has been poor all season. Now he has a contract he's not trying - bad character. I don't think Dapo has been trying for the last 3 or 4 games either. Maybe he's fed up with being kicked.
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Post by OohMac on Nov 18, 2021 22:38:55 GMT
Well almost 24hours on and i'm still not over that performance.
Usual things being said but how Evatt as a 6 foot odd old centre back can watch our defence deficiency is beyond me. That maybe part of his ego. Probably been treated like a big lump and now once people to see him as the forward thinking, easy on the eye, total footballer.
I'm sick of the argument "oh you dont like Evatt, shall we get hoofball Parky back?" Erm, how about a manager in the middle. Like 90+% actually are.
I keep coming back to the recruitment and if I was Sharon i'd be having a sit down with Ian and saying along the lines of. Its November again and we seem to be in the same position this year as we were last. Looking over our shoulder with a squad not good enough. Last season you said we got every target we went for. You personally knew several players. They didnt work. We backed you and got rid of Phoenix and upgraded your role. We acted in Jan. Kept your players from last season. Added to them, you again said we had depth. A battle for every position and now after a few injuries we are bare bones and not good enough?
Anyone knows that in the summer the pool of players is large. In Jan its harder to recruit and assume more expensive because of it.
The bad run last year, Port Vale/Leyton Orient was a warning. The bad run ending with club captain released in odd circimsyances. That was cards marked strike 1. For me Ian Evatt is on strike 2 after the worst performance in a clubs history.
I think Evatt has 3 games. 3 games to answer.
Are the players with him. Are they playing for him still? Is there a response. Is there an improvement. Can this Evatt style work with these players and if not why has that penny not dropped.
Could say we need x amount of points but think a better marker would be to just ask if things are getting better and are lessons being learnt(my guess is no they're not/wont. Because the ego has landed and he wont change his ways and that is why ultimately i think we are better off now really putting ths feelers out for the next manager.
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Post by whitesince63 on Nov 19, 2021 9:12:11 GMT
I feel your pain OM, as well as that of others but it isn’t the time to panic. OK, the Sarce thing was suspicious but to be fair, I’m personally not fussed that he’s gone but I do think we need to know more about the reasons. Whether we will I don’t know, probably in time but as for now, I don’t think it’s the case of players not being with IE. I think we’re just seeing their real lack of ability. I do agree with Westy about Dantos and Andy’s comparison with previous centre halves. I’ve always considered him slow and lumbering and an accident waiting to happen yet Evatt seems to see him as completely different. Whether that’s because he wants to boost his transfer value, or I’m missing something I don’t know but time will tell I suppose.
I do think though that we need to remember that last summer we were still under embargo and we’re still limited to who we could bring in. What concerns me most is the continued mantra that we need to be sustainable and whether that’s just code for, we haven’t any money? If that’s the case and we’re going to continue to recruit cast offs and hope for a lucky pick, it isn’t going to go down well. Maybe, like Parky with Anderson, FV know that IE is on side with that and will hang onto him whatever happens? Lots of unknowns but for me we have to stick with IE for now and not potentially throw the baby out with the bath water. For all its frustrations, the football is immeasurably better and more enjoyable than under Parkinson, so let’s not be too hasty in thinking the grass is greener elsewhere.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Nov 19, 2021 11:37:25 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHq5eJ-h64A&ab_channel=BoltonWanderersFCa surprisingly tolerable Evatt interview. first time for everything. no bull. admits team lacks leaders. need basics of graft etc. Wycombe should be interesting. i would have fancied it to be fairly winnable. but confidence dipping, extra time midweek, a few extra tweaks and injuries picked up. a real tester. Wycombe I don't think have been on good form after a pretty decent start to the season. no wins in November Lge or cup. not scored in last 3. style wise should be interesting.... apparently Ainsworth likes an attack minded aggressive high energy pressing game. possibly quite direct too. likes recruiting older players that are unfavoured...considered has-beens but he sees they have more to give. shades of Big Sam with Speed or unfavoured players like Davo. this is what good management is about, not expecting to be bailed out by money all the time..like BSA says make your own money. sell a "flash in the pan" striker ,like Michael Ricketts who's really a dud, to some dopey manager. that's generating money. Wycombe were in Championship last season and got relegated. Gareth Ainsworth quite fairly said...even being 3rd bottom in the Championship for a club of their stature was a proud moment. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gareth_Ainsworth#Management_style
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