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Post by davidm on Oct 16, 2021 18:39:30 GMT
Isn't Wellens manager of bottom of league Doncaster?
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Post by kenglowhite on Oct 16, 2021 19:03:26 GMT
Maybe this was our Port Vale replay - the home game we lost 3-6 last season. Apart from our control-the-game from the back policy not operating well, we were so full of mistakes at front and back that Wigan didn't require the help of a referee so tolerant to their physical approach yet intolerant to any slip we made. I am sure his readiness to book our men and not theirs for basically the same fouls must have played a part in our performanceand lack of confidence. I thought Williams unfairly booked, and later Santos trying manfully to play the ball as the striker backed into him and tried to turn him unfairly for the umpteenth time. Johnston was also booked unfairly imo. I have sympathy for Brockbank as he was fed manifold suicide passes when being closed down, and maybe Jones would have met the same fate today. It is also unfair to keep railing against Doyle, who received little or no service. There is little point in giving him support - Bakayoke or Kachunga - and playing them on the wing. On the left, when Afalayon is stymied by a good full back he should be re-positioned under a plan B or C. I wonder what is happening to John. His absences are now starting to trouble me, and while I have rated Sheehan a good signing his contributions are not up to Lee's standards at present. Maybe he's not big enough and that is why I have wondered in the past if our team should start out with Thomason on the left side of midfield.He is very creative. The point about last year's PV game is valid as thereafter serious thinking seemed to take place about reshaping the team, and I hope to see some similar thought given to that soon, including perhaps bringing Politic home, as I feel he could be a serious support to Doyle up front as an attacking midfielder,
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Post by OohMac on Oct 16, 2021 20:05:59 GMT
Doyle did not concede 4 goals today Doyle didn't let us concede the 1st goal in 10 games out of 13 this season so always having the opposition packing their defence He hasn't played well Yes but today was not his fault Perhaps not leaving him isolated from the rest of the team might help No, but its an example of Evatts refusal to see and change anything and his "I know best" attitude. For me Evatt should be soaking up lessons like a sponge in his infancy in management but seems determined just to do the same thing that he thinks worked regardless. And when it doesnt work its not his masterplan no, its poor referees, wrong dugouts, dressing rooms too cosy, or just freak bad luck. He gets more bookings than most defenders. Ive never seen such petulance. As ive said on the other thread I find him an unlikable character at the best of times. 0-4 loss wont help. I guess what I would say in his defence is that the loan players all happy to stay so must be ok to work with.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 16, 2021 20:17:52 GMT
Isn't Wellens manager of bottom of league Doncaster? I feel a right proper Charlie now davidm I meant Ryan Lowe and it’s my head that needs looking at now Apols all
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Post by OohMac on Oct 16, 2021 20:51:51 GMT
Isn't Wellens manager of bottom of league Doncaster? I feel a right proper Charlie now davidm I meant Ryan Lowe and it’s my head that needs looking at now Apols all Did wonder with that shout. Its not the time to be talking about new managers though. We've come up a division and spent nothing. I cant see any situation, even relegation, that would make FV part with Evatt. But he doesnt have Tobias Phoenix to throw under the bus this year. At some point he will need to take responsibility.Subheadline says it all "Bolton Wanderers boss Ian Evatt says players "let down" fans in 4-0 Wigan defeat". Ha, got to laugh. When its bad its nothing to do with you Ian, bet your happy to get a manager of the month award though.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 16, 2021 22:10:14 GMT
I feel a right proper Charlie now davidm I meant Ryan Lowe and it’s my head that needs looking at now Apols all Did wonder with that shout. Its not the time to be talking about new managers though. We've come up a division and spent nothing. I cant see any situation, even relegation, that would make FV part with Evatt. But he doesnt have Tobias Phoenix to throw under the bus this year. At some point he will need to take responsibility.Subheadline says it all "Bolton Wanderers boss Ian Evatt says players "let down" fans in 4-0 Wigan defeat". Ha, got to laugh. When its bad its nothing to do with you Ian, bet your happy to get a manager of the month award though. Loyalty is Evatts problem as I’m sure it will be Sharon’s problem too if she sticks with him Let’s see
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 16, 2021 22:57:28 GMT
Interesting views on here today, some I agree with some not. Today was the earliest I’ve ever left a Wanderers game, as the 3rd goal went in I just couldn’t stomach any more and made a run for it. That was just embarrassing. I fear the comments by Evatt totally unnerved and unsettled the team who looked nervy right from the off. I’ve said it before, as some on here have also, that playing Baka on the wing is doubly wrong as Baka isn’t a winger and doesn’t have a wingers instincts or abilities and it also robs us of a winger that does. I felt sorry for Brocky for that reason because he had nobody to link up with and just ended up having to go back. I’d actually have liked him to take the ball forward himself but either he didn’t have the confidence to or had been told not to.
The most annoying thing was that Wigan, like Rotherham were nothing special and had we managed to pull one back it might have changed the game. We were just so slow though, no attempt to break quickly. Our best football is when we pass and move quickly but today they were just lethargic, slow and static. Every pass was telegraphed and there was no attempt to up the tempo. Up front we have no threat with Doyle receiving little or no service. It’s easy to blame him but he’s the kind who needs that and unlikely to create on his own. Like the rest of the team he’s lacking confidence but with no adequate replacement he must play for me.
So where next? I think Evatt has to use this performance as a base. We’ve stopped doing the things that make us good and that’s getting the ball forward much more quickly. I like the building from the back but it can’t be the only tool in the box. Teams have got wise to it and are pressing us back too easily forcing mistakes and making players rush. If teams are going to push higher up, surely we’ve got to get the ball forward quicker so they can’t get back but then we don’t have much pace up top other than Dapo. Sheehan, Sarce and Doyle all lack a turn of foot and Evatt needs to resolve this in the window. Maybe with Amaechi back that will improve us but even so I wouldn’t write us off yet. Today was bad but let’s hope it’s the kick in the pants everybody needs, including IE. Maybe like the Man Up comment unwisely made on BC, he will learn shooting his mouth off not only fires up the opposition but also undermines his own players too.
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Post by andyl on Oct 17, 2021 10:52:49 GMT
Having watched the limited highlights on Quest, I offer a slight remark and would argue for this relative to David M's or Marc Iles
Dixon 6 +1=7 Brockbank 0+2=2 Santos 2-7=-5 Johnston 6-1=5 Gordon 6-1=5 Williams 5 Sheehan 5 Dapo 6-1-5 Bakayoko 5 Sarcevic 4 Doyle 2 Isgrove 4 Kachunga 4 Thomason 6.
Why? Firstly unless we mark him down for rolling the ball out under orders to hard pressed defenders Dixon had a near faultless game- with lots of quick interceptions, safe handling and quick releases. I had thought the third goal was down to him but it wasn't - he actually got his foot to the ball well and was unlucky.
Brockbank was shell shocked, given no forward outlet with Bakayoko wrongly selected in front of him and not as much at fault on goal 1 as I at the time thought. He is though just not good enough defensively to survive for long at this level. He cannot turn and has no pace from a standing start. We saw that again yesterday. Not his fault he was taken off too late.
Santos was horribly at fault on all four goals. He resembled nothing so much as blundering colossus wandering dreamily and bemusedly on some alien terrain. On goal one he just ball watched and with plenty of time really doesn't even look for or at the player who stole through- in fact not so much stole as sauntered. On goal two he is unlucky with the first touch but with an easy block on for some reason he half turned and let McLean shoot. On goal three again he took his eye of his man and let him run free for the shot and fell short of putting in the b lock that would have spared Dixon the false criticism and even on on goal four he stands statuesque. Was he ill? he was just all at sea and offered just in case we needed it proof that against a mobile intelligent attack and without a double screen such as Lee and Williams he can't cut it. Sorry. It's all very well swaggering out and playing some excellent cross field balls and outmuscling static forwards but none of this disguises his naivete defensively. he also isn't very good in the air. Wykes and Kean roughed him up and bested him from the off and of course he offers no threat whatsoever in their box. If we look back for comparators in relatively recent history maybe Danny Shittu, a far better player had similar attributes and weaknesses but he hardly ever got a game. The last time I can recall a comparably awful game but I need help here re the name of the defender. It was a televised game and Big Sam hooked the defender at or maybe even before half time. It was also remarked to me at the game that Yoan Zouma did better against Wykes. Santos is, I think now suspended and it must be time to have a look at Aimson, especially at Plymouth where he should have a point to prove. Baptiste is not a long term solution. Edwards impressed amongst the youth but before in jury
Of others I remain frustrated that Bakayoko was not used centrally ahead of or even beside the lonely and hapless Doyle. I remain in two minds re Sarcevic, now brilliant and now ultra careless. He seems to pass well until he has to. How many breakaways has he carelessly started.Johnston was appreciably better but isn't good enough in the air and this was not the game. Gordon faded under pressure but needs to be encouraged to move forward on the flank if behind Dapo. defensively he was better than John
Were we unlucky? A bit. Goal one may be handball. Sheehan is either the victim of collision or is barged in the penalty area. Either way he did not commit a foul, unless the referee thought he dived-- and in truth there was a bit of that as the contact slowed down was not as great as the force which propelled him. My vote would be penalty though. That Evatt was again booked is unsurprising. He lacks all dignity , empathy or class at such times. better had he asked himself why on earth he had selected Bakayoko on the wing and asked for defensive duties. He is our one long ball outlet. To replace him with Kachunga and leave Doyle on was unintelligible.
You could see in the post match interview that John's continual absences and injuries are beginning to grate with Evatt and ditto Lee's. There was an Ameobic hint in there of the old Sammy 'is fit when he says he's fit' mantra.
Finally it's not that the overall style of play is wrong. Nor is continuity of personnel, loyalty or even building them up in public. That can all be good and we have made good progress given what we came from and experienced. Crowds are up, although I ask myself if we want some of the so called fans we saw yesterday- they even threw missiles at Kachunga. But we really really need our manager to learn to adapt tactically when other teams have our number as they increasingly do. I think we have to find a way of playing with three at the back and stringing five across midfield in some games and we have to find room for Lee Thomasson, Williams and Sheehan to play together and Doyle if he is to play to have a partner centrally. How to solve that conundrum should be Evatt's challenge. Last season he did in the end via the transfer market find a formula. All is not yet lost
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Post by chip on Oct 17, 2021 12:16:55 GMT
Well I have seen the goals and read as much as I can on the game and I'm still scratching my head as how easy we seem to allow the so called better team's to walk away with three easy points. How many more times do we have to keep giving team's early leads it beggars belief. I don't know who you blame for it apart from the players also I think it's time to give Doyle a rest not dropped completely but benched and brought on as a impact sub until he gets his sharpness back. We move on stay safe one and all onwards and upwards COYWM
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Post by OohMac on Oct 17, 2021 13:37:55 GMT
Another dig at Evatt having said that Sarcevic is playing with "a hefty ankle injury".
Well why? We have Thomason, Isgrove and Delfouenso all can play there. Or we can go 4-4-2. There is no way Sarce is so important that he plays with a hefty injury.
Think whats happened is Evatt knows hes been soundly beaten, egg on his face after his "best in show" nonsense and thinks I cant come out and make excuses but if I exaggerate the injuries then people will read between the lines. Sorry Ian stinks of BS to say hes played with a Hefty Ankle injury.
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Post by andyl on Oct 17, 2021 14:00:52 GMT
Abdoulaye Meite is the player I couldn't remember. No doubt someone will recall the game?
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Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 17, 2021 14:20:04 GMT
Well After my negative moans of yesterday after the non performance of our side, I’ve had time to calm down and gather my thoughts
That took all of 2 seconds
And I’m still fuming
A side with so much promise that could capitulate so so easily All this talk of ‘credit where it’s due and Wigan are a decent side! They’re all decent sides if you allow them the freedom to annihilate you
Ian, or should I call you Keith, please don’t ever mouth off that we are the best side until we’ve lifted the league trophy (highly unlikely) as 3 of my work colleagues (Wigan Pathetic fans) are no doubt eagerly awaiting my return from holiday tomorrow morning to rub my noise well and truly in it
Wigan’s best away win in nearly 4 years and it just so happens to be against us!! This is Phil Parkinson's gift territory
Onwards and upwards and hope Ian learns some lessons from this! Hell, he’s already wrote off our chances at Plymouth with his moan about his ever growing injury list (not that we had many before we visit them) NewsFlash Ian, every club has injuries…
Just out of interest, Andy Carroll (32) looking for a new club, could he be worth a shout in January
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 18, 2021 9:28:17 GMT
I think Andy Carroll would be slightly out of our price range rftr but we certainly need something. The problem is, where would Evatt play him? He seems to have the Parky failing of playing strikers on the wing just to fit in with his system rather than amending the system to fit what he has! Can he change? I hope so.
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Post by kenglowhite on Oct 18, 2021 9:48:59 GMT
I think the major problem is we need to play three across midfield, Lee Williams and Thomason, to help the defence and also create attacks, and unless he plays three at the back, that leaves room only for three at the front, and who would those be?
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Post by thegrud1 on Oct 18, 2021 13:41:21 GMT
Its blatantly obvious that either Doyle cant play at this level or he needs a partner Saying he works for the team is not enough...baka could do that Theres only one reason a striker is on the pitch To score goals...a striker can stand there all day,,if he scores he,s done his job
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