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Post by thegrud1 on Oct 10, 2021 15:03:05 GMT
Gonna throw this out there. When Evatt came in we were a mess
1st step Bring in more possession based players 2nd step,,,get rid of players who cant play that way 3nd step..instill in the players a possesion based game so it becomes *normal** 4th get a striker who can score goals in L2 that doesnt cost a fortune (Doyle) 5th get promted and see how we do in L1 6th,,,,BUY a proven striker to get out out L1,in january
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 10, 2021 17:34:28 GMT
I suppose it’s easy to say bring in a striker in January Grud. They cost money if they’re any good and I’m not sure how much we have or even whether IE and Sharon are prepared to pay the wages required either, not to mention the effect that might have on the others. Wigan have signed Wyke at big wages and although he hasn’t exactly ripped it up so far I’ve no doubt he will by the end of the season because he’s too good not to. I’m sure IE is as frustrated as the rest of us to see all our good work going to waste with all the chances we’ve missed and against good opposition too.
I think though that if IE and the board do seriously want to get us promoted, they have to speculate a little to do it because it must be eminently clear now that we don’t have the capacity in the squad at the moment to score the goals necessary. Our other problem is that if we do fail to be promoted, I can’t see any way the likes of Dapo and Rico are not going to be lured away by clubs further up the food chain. So, if we accept we need a striker and I’d actually say we need at least two not one, do you have any ideas who they might be? I must admit to being sorely disappointed that we didn’t find one in August because it must have been obvious even then that we were light. I’ll give IE the benefit of the doubt that Baka and Kachunga might have turned up trumps but I think we now know that neither of those two are going to be the answer and our objective now must be to hold onto the tails of the top 6 until theres another chance in January to revisit it.
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Post by OohMac on Oct 10, 2021 18:05:52 GMT
We were a mess but we had boxed a lot of slates and was able to give Evatt a clean slate that Hill never got.
Did we win promotion because the Evatt style finally clicked and we just got better and better? No, not quite.
We got promotion because we ditched Phoenix ball in January and we brought in players that should not have ever had League 2 on thier CV. John, Lee, Dapo, MJ proper players to go with Doyle, Sarce, etc.
Maybe downplaying Evatts achievements but I think you ask a Richie Wellens, Keith Hill, Graham Alexander and they probably say "give me that squad and I'll win the league".
My big concern with Evatt is because success has come early he thinks hes King Midas and reluctant to question what did we not do well.
I dislike any manager that blames a ref. In my mind there are two exceptions for us not winning games because of refs. Barry Knight (Ipswich) and Mike Riley (Leicester) the rest have been good, bad and ugly but cannot stop you scoring more than the other team. Not liking Evatts traits of constantly using refs to try and shield his own shortcomings.
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 10, 2021 22:44:48 GMT
I think that might be slightly unfair on IE and his actions OM. I’m not sure any of those managers would have succeeded as well but we’ll never know will we? I do though agree entirely on IE having success so early in his managerial career and maybe it has grown his confidence in himself too far. I see that sometimes in his reluctance to adapt when it’s not going our way, simply changing like for like, never trying something different to fox the opposition. On the other hand, we could and maybe should have won every game we’ve played this year we’re it not for our lack of finishing prowess. We do though have to remember that this team was built under embargo and without being able to pay top wages. Maybe with that in mind it would be a minor miracle if we get promoted? You can only hope that come January, the board back Evatt to get the striker we so obviously need. Of course that won’t be easy as few clubs will allow good marksmen to leave mid season. It’s ok saying we’re going to be sustainable but there comes a time when, without being silly, you have to pay the price to get what you want. Sadly I can’t see anyone in the club to come in and do it so a big signing is the only way. Let’s hope by January we’re still in touch because lightening won’t strike twice after last years amazing run.
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Post by OohMac on Oct 12, 2021 5:51:46 GMT
Maybe a little unfair on Evatt but i'm worried that success early on can really ruin a managers pathway and mindset and dont want Evatt to think his learning is done.
Like a 17 year old driver who passes his test first time and now thinks he's Lewis Hamilton.
Just watch Quest any given Saturday and look how many goals come from set pieces and crosses into box, think of our last goal(s) like that. Its not the dark arts its a great tool especially a. When you have a man mountain like Santos and b. When you struggle to make and take chances from open play.
Fact is anyone with a scout will know Bolton are deadly when counter attacking but let them have the ball, sit back and let them pass it at the back. Get your chance, take it and sit back again.
Our game of playing cat and mouse trying to tire out opponents, get them out of shape doesnt work as well as Evatt thinks and most of the time like last season comes from us falling behind and upping the urgency.
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 12, 2021 17:32:09 GMT
We have to give credit to IE for at least trying to instil a system that is consistent and everybody understands OM, though it can sometimes seem a little obvious to opponents but it’s one thing knowing how someone will play and quite another overcoming it. In every game we’ve played so far, we could easily have been well ahead by the time the opposition scored and it’s entirely down to our failure to take our chances that have resulted in us losing games we might possibly have won. Had we taken the chances we’ve created, we wouldn’t probably be questioning Evatt’s tactics at all but celebrating us being top of the league. It’s also worth remembering that all of these players were recruited whilst under embargo and were mainly other peoples cast offs, or inexperienced at this level. I’m hoping that the board will back Evatt in January to recruit the players necessary to take us up that next level, as we did last year. I still haven’t actually seen a team that looks better than us, including those who have spent serious money on squads, so I’m entirely confident that if we can strengthen in the next window we can still make at least the play offs. The players though, need to step up and as you say, with a player the size of Rico, it seems ridiculous that we pose so little threat from set pieces. Even if he’s not the best aerially in an attacking sense, he could adopt the strong blocking role that SKD did to create space for others and if we can just add a few from that direction, I’m sure it will take the pressure off the forwards.
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Post by OohMac on Oct 12, 2021 18:53:56 GMT
True enough we did it all under embargo. And weve gone up a division(finishing 3rd) spent another £0.0M in recruitment and are in the play off mix still and disappointed not to be higher.
Only thing I would nit pick about that is because of covid, football outside the Prem has press the reset button for most of the teams. Transfer fees will be few and far between fron L1 downwards(maybe even Championship). That a salary cap was agreed albeit short lived showed football is getting a grip.
The embargo didnt really hamper us as much as it should and even now we're out I dont think we will pay a transfer fee (over 100k) for years and years to come.
In truth though, rate the job Evatts done so far, but find it hard to like him after most of the stuff i see and read.
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 13, 2021 8:40:52 GMT
Can’t disagree with any of that OM though I hope you’re wrong on the transfer fee front since that’s the boards idea of making money by picking up players like Dapo and Rico and selling them on. Maybe they’ve got their timing wrong? Like you though, I can’t see us paying big transfer fees and to be fair I’m not sure you need to with players free to move on at the end of their contracts. It’s probably more about wages in future outside the PL, even more so in L1 L2 as you say. On that score it will be interesting to see how the club approach the January window. Unless clubs want to offload players to bring in others, January isn’t normally the best time to pick up what you need so it’s going to be tough for IE to sign the striker we need. A loan is probably our best chance and higher level clubs may want to give their better young prospects a run at league level to see how they fare before deciding on them for the following season. Hopefully Evatt’s got irons in the fire anyway. I don’t know Evatt personally obviously but I do like his matter of fact attitude although I suspect he could be a bit “know it all” in some ways and can come across like that in interviews.
And finally, so Grud, you started this thread yet haven’t commented on any of the responses to your list, although so far it seems to have been entirely a conversation between myself and OM. Share your thought with us on how we’ve done. 🤔😉
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Post by thegrud1 on Oct 13, 2021 8:57:33 GMT
ok here goes Im extremely happy with the way things are going Evatt has done amazingly well under the circumstances...everything cant happen at once. as i said the style of play seems ingrained in the players we are creating chances,just not putting them away the need for a goalscorer at this level is obvious evatt may seem stubborn but i call it being realistic..we have stepped up a division and are in the top half....i will be amazed if we dont sign/loan a striker in january IN EVATT I TRUST !!!
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Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 13, 2021 17:46:56 GMT
Just off topic
I ‘taped’ a Big Match Revisited’ with Brian Moore and it was Man City v Bolton 1980 in a Div 1 (Prem)
Quagmire of a pitch
Dennis Tueart with 2 goals on his return to Maine Road, with Whatmore and a 93 min Peter Reid penalty ⚽️⚽️
Anyone remember going to that game?
We were bottom of the league after 34 games (2pts per win) with City a few places above, but looking at Div 2 (Championship) with Birmingham top (F Worthy injured) Chelsea, West Ham and Leicester in the promotion pack
To think, Worthy only left us in April 79 to go to Dallas Cowboys Philadelphia Fury or whatever they were called, he soon left them to come back to England
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 13, 2021 18:11:03 GMT
ok here goes Im extremely happy with the way things are going Evatt has done amazingly well under the circumstances...everything cant happen at once. as i said the style of play seems ingrained in the players we are creating chances,just not putting them away the need for a goalscorer at this level is obvious evatt may seem stubborn but i call it being realistic..we have stepped up a division and are in the top half....i will be amazed if we dont sign/loan a striker in january IN EVATT I TRUST !!! I can’t disagree with a word of that Grud and if we had put away our chances, or at least some of them, we’d be at or near the top. It’s incredible to think that we’ve outplayed pretty much every team we’ve played so far, just not got the spoils or been robbed by poor refereeing, despite only coming up last year. When you consider that two of those were a couple of divisions higher than us last year, that’s quite some achievement and one IE has every right to be proud of. Hopefully we’ll continue that against Wigan on Saturday but let’s just also hope that we can put away more of the chances we are bound to create than we have in most games? The one thing I’d like to see us do differently is shoot more. We have players all over the pitch who we know can shoot but instead of trying, other than Dapo, they always look to pass instead of testing the keeper. Like you say, I’d also be amazed if IE doesn’t sign at least one new striker in January, either on loan or permanently.
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