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Post by Alptrotter on Dec 27, 2020 9:17:22 GMT
I think it says a lot about this division that we played so poorly against a team 3rd in the league with an enviable home record and got a draw. Anything is still possible.
I have more patience than some with Evatt because there are real doubts about the extent to which he directed the summer recruitment which has left us with a number of unplayable players and a grotesquely unbalanced squad. Evatt has made clear that he doesn’t rate several players eg Mascoll and Taft because he never picks them and/or has stated they are not good enough. For me this suggests that many of the players brought in in summer were the result of Phoenix’s ‘moneyball’ nonsense, Surely, if Evatt had been the main driver for their recruitment, to publicly rubbish them and to say several need to be moved on, as he has done, would hardly inspire FV’s confidence. He’d be a fool. And I don’t think he is.
I mean, does anyone on here seriously think that he continues to pick Jones on the left because he thinks he’s a natural there? Does he keep picking the evidently work shy Delfouneso and give him 90 minutes because his contribution to the team is unquestioned? Does he select the obvioulsy past it Gilks for Sat and Tuesday games because he is simply undroppable? I could go on with others of our regular starting eleven, but I’m sure you get my drift. Evatt simply reasons that there is simply no one else in his terribly unbalanced squad.
So, let’s see what he can do in January, given that he is now in full control, but bearing in mind he is still hamstrung by the embargo. Also, let’s see how much value he can add to Santos by his coaching. That’s got to be an important job for him.
I think we should also recognise that he is trying to educate his players into a certain playing style. I agree that the short ball to Santos, hasty square pass to poor Delaney who is often being closely pressed is a big weakness, but we have no one of stature to challenge for long clearances except Kioso, who then gets criticism for being too far up the field! Arguably Evatt’s style is not the one to give the fastest results at this rustic level of football. But, if he eventually gets us challenging for promotion it is one that won’t have to be ditched if we start progressing up the league heirarchy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 9:35:50 GMT
I agree with most of your points Alp. Let's not forget that in the not so distant past we were on the verge of obscurity. Were the players strictly Pheonix's choice. We'll never know.
On the tactical side, given what you call a rustic style for the division, one wonders why Evatt never changes tack during a game. Surely, playing his Barca style may look attractive, to him, but it doesn't bring results and results are what will get us out of this division.
My other concern, a simple one, is that I have never seen a foto of Evatt smiling. Is the stress of being at a big club also a strain on him and does it flow down to the players. Compare his demeanor to that of Big Sam's. That little video RTF posted shows it all for me.
I'd give him this season and the next, but too long in this division makes it more difficult to escape.
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Post by kenglowhite on Dec 27, 2020 11:09:08 GMT
The weird and wonderful works of football never cease to amaze me, and increasingly the old adage of "where there's muck there's money " comes to mind, and this seems relevant to the point Alp raises about Evatt and the questions it raises. After the Orient game I suggested Evatt was behaving as though he had been lumbered with players chosen by someone else and that he had hung them out to dry. I thought then that they were in fact players brought in by a certain D of F, and that D of F had been introduced to the owners of BWFC by someone who had promised jam tomorrow for them if everything went well. Obviously things haven't gone particularly well so far and probably plan A has had to be abandoned with Evatt the apparent winner. Apart from the players who haven't turned out to be the right ones, there are the other academy players whom Evatt apparently doesn't want to use such as Senior, Alexander and Darcy. Mysteriously, when we all thought he wanted to leave, Darcy signed a new contract, presumably at the behest of the D of F. Did that contract in fact contain elements with which Evatt disagrees, such as an early exit, as suggested by 63, and is that a reason why Evatt isn't using him?(I am sure he could work more closely with Doyle and Sarcevic than the currently disinterested Delfouneso ). It is also obvious that he has little faith in many other players brought in by someone else, such as Taft, Greenidge, Mascoll, Faal,Comley,Gordon possibly Hickman etc. and is striving to be rid of most of them. So where does Evatt really feature in the future of our glorious club ? He needs to be more tactically flexible. He needs to make subs at the right time. He must bring in the right players in this window, including a goalkeeper, left back, defensive midfield and a support striker. If he manages to clear the dead wood and bring in those green shoots successfully and retain Darcy then the job is his for a long time.
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Post by OohMac on Dec 27, 2020 13:51:39 GMT
No theres not a lot of options for Evatt but the players who should be running into the ground like Looney Tunes cartoons shoulf be Baptiste ane Delfouenso as they're his old chums for Blackpool days. If football shorts had pockets Delfouenso would have his hands in his. He just cannot motivate himself. He seemed to up his game during Doyles injury but not happy to live in the shadows. Baptiste problems are not attitude but he doesnt do the right things enough of the time. IE can blame Phoenix all he wants. This is what he said in Summer. "There isnt a target we havent got. Everyone we wanted we got." Or words to that effect. It wasnt Tobias has brought in X,Y and Z it was always "we". Happy to take credit. Quick to throw TP under the bus. But ultimately I do blame IE because i'm sure a flat back 4 would work, with any permutation, much better than this crazy RB as LWB system he has. With Kioso missing and Baptiste brought off surely Tuesday is the time to ditch and go 4-5-1. Jones Santos Delaney Taft Tutte Darcy Tomasson Crawford Sarcevic Doyle ?
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Post by realtrottersforever on Dec 27, 2020 15:02:08 GMT
it's not April 1st is it ?
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Post by andyl on Dec 27, 2020 16:04:51 GMT
I think that it's one thing to allow a relatively young manager time to learn, time to fashion a team and its tactics, time for some personnel change and to make allowance for mistakes, bad luck and off field distractions. All of this makes me hope that Evatt can succeed. All is not yet lost. Also, see parallel thread a legacy such as FV, TB and IE inherited is not going to be turned round in a season especially with a salary cap applying. It's also the case that we did not make much forward progress under Keith Hill when we certainly had the players to be further up the table than was achieved.
OK, so far so good. But then the argument in his defence collapses. We have seen a muddled manager at times barely hiding a bullying or self absolving inner persona. As was elsewhere noted he speaks of us and them and the players at one remove in Freedman speak. He embarrassed and unnerved Crellin both by speaking about him and by selecting him. He also pressured him by not naming a substitute. Was there more to get? We will never know
We have the nonsense of square pegs in round holes wrongly deployed. If you are going to plug flank gaps with the likes of Brockbank and Jones, don't keep passing to them or strand them up the field, just lie deep with them and counter attack in other ways. Gordon showed something at left back, I thought. Comley really battled in midfield but kept getting caught in possession and therefore embarrassed partly through his own shape but both he and White if ever moving forward did OK and in Comley's case significantly so at, I think, Barrow. Who asked players to play roles ill suited to them
Why is Darcy not good enough. Is he another Freedman ( second strike on this one) whose Academy players openly hated him because to him they were never going to be good enough? Maybe his faith in Thomason spares him this second Freedman comparison for now but we have all seen what Darcy can do.. We might ask if he would have also sidelined Politic.
On Saturday we had the nonsense of the commentator saying that Evatt as an experienced centre half should take Santos aside and teach him how to mark. Did no one else think along the lines of 'FFS he's had three months to teach his specialist subject and his sidekick's specialist subject'
What really got to me was the statement that Doyle and Delfouneso pick themselves. Er..no. You do. And most of the time in most games neither of them is showing very much at all partly because they do not get the right sort of service often enough but partly because Delfouneso is er Delfouneso. It's pretty obvious he has talent above his station but surely we can all see his moody laziness, his gestures of frustration and his absence from most action. For my part I'd love to see Kioso upfront, harassing defenders, chasing back when they break out, competing for aerial kicks and forging ahead of defenders.. OK he'd take a while to learn. OK he'd probably get a number of yellow cards. And he'd be offside almost as much as Delfouneso..But if not that...
Finally, whatever anyone argues this is by far the worst team I have seen in 61 years of going to or watching bwfc. I have never seen us taken for 6 at home or so easily for 3. I've seen the odd Orient style crumble but never so many self inflicted goals or opposition misses.
So in defence of Evatt. I don't think so. The vaunted Barrow magician was ever a case of Emperor's new clothes and the new tactics ( Sammy Lee did better with that one). I think that by just about every imaginable criterion Evatt could have been a candidate for sacking and that he hasn't been shows either a) a serious lack of FV resource again b) a lack of ambition or c) a praiseworthy FV perspective of patience and taking one season at a time before review,
However, back to the beginning if IE can learn, adapt and change and continue not to need defending then great. I don't want to see him go just yet. Nor did I Megson, Freedman, Lennon and even maybe Coyle until they reached a point of no return, I lapsed a little with Hill because of his manner and words. He talked himself out of a job. I want to see IE succeed, for now
Finally the irony of this thread and I alluded to it re Santos and tactics generally is that if he had a ( playing) defence he would not need a defence and as himself a defender why hasn't he?.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Dec 27, 2020 18:43:51 GMT
In defence of the defence
I’m thinking, 2 for Manè, 2 for Firminho, a hat trick for Salah and a Henderson special for 8 nil 🤔🤔🤔🤔
Not on your nelly
When Big Sam comes to town, all that ones to a halt This was David and Goliath stuff The way Liverpool took Palace to the cleaners last week (and to be fair it could have easily have been double - 14 nil) I, along with many, including the bookies must have thought this was a home banker!! Not Big Sam, the ex defender (Evatt was a central defender during his playing career wasn’t he) Big Sam knows only too well how to set up his defence against the most potent strike force on the world and in all honesty, would not have been bad value had they won today, point being that if you set up the defence to not concede, it’s only going to take one lapse for a special player like Manè to breach it, chances are you keep a clean sheet or near as damn it... Well done BSA, that’s how you do it Ian 👍🏻👍🏻
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 19:21:59 GMT
It's very hard to judge Ian this season because let's face it with the summer we have just had what with Hill being stood down and Ian taking over we had to get players in very quickly the majority of them are lower division players that nobody wanted. What really gets my goat is his slowness to take players out of the firing line that are totally rubbish and in my opinion will never be any good so to get almost to January on a wing and a prayer with 26 points is a bloody miracle. Let's wait and see what if any business he can get done in January with still half the season to go we never know he just might surprise us onwards and upwards. Stay safe one and all COYWM
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Post by whitesince63 on Dec 28, 2020 11:42:39 GMT
The problem is chip, we can’t sign players without others leaving and apart from the loans who could go back, we’d be struggling to get anyone to take them off our hands. The other difficulty he will have is paying good players under this awful salary cap. I don’t have an issue with the idea of a cap but surely it’s only common sense to allow bigger clubs an opportunity to sign better players and pay them their worth, otherwise it’s just a race to the bottom. I’m sure it’s only money that’s holding up the Kieran Lea deal because as a free agent surely we can sign him any time?
On the other hand, are some of the players being made to look worse than they are by having to play Evatt’s system? Might the likes of Gordon, Greenidge and Maskell have fared better played just as left backs which they’re familiar with, than wing backs as Evatt wants them to be? The same thing could be said of our Central defenders who would maybe have performed better in a conventional back four? Even going forward, would the likes of Doyle, Fonz and Darcy not looked better being supported by a proper midfield who held position rather than being meant to dart forward? It may be that we have to persevere with what we’ve got so maybe Evatt needs to just accept it and try to play a system that suits his players strengths, rather than what he desires?
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Post by Alptrotter on Dec 28, 2020 13:44:09 GMT
I am not for a moment saying that the defence is the finished article. But neither do I agree that it is a hopeless failure. It’s big problem is too much inconsistency and ( rather like an England batting line up) a propensity to collapse when conceding early. I know it may be a stretch for many, but take aside the 5 games when we conceded 19 ( the Port Vale freak show, two high scoring away draws at Barrow and Carlisle and two dreadful defeats at home to Tranmere and away to Orient) we have conceded 13 goals in 15 games. They must have been doing something right for some of the time!
I tend to the view, expressed by some, that if Evatt gets us within striking distance of the playoffs by the end of the January window, it will be no little achievement. It’s clear that he recognises that we need a proper target man up front, let’s hope the same applies to a keeper, a strong defensive midfielder and a player comfortable on the left side as wing or full back. I am still of the opinion that the playoffs are well within reach.
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Post by andyl on Dec 30, 2020 11:59:35 GMT
Also in my book there is no defence whatsoever for managers who blame referees for their own or the teams' shortcomings. The idea quoted hearsay by Marc Iles that Evatt has to be louder and 'bully' referees a bit more is just despicable and distracting.
No referee finds consistent favour with fans or managers even post VAR. I watched the Carlisle game referee reasonably closely as I always do. Didn't though see the Thomason penalty incident which is what I think(?) got Evatt in trouble and yellow carded. It didn't suggest itself as an obvious penalty at the time. Maybe with replays? But I did see a referee in a tough physical game striving for consistency and getting most things right most of the time including some tricky throw in and corner/goalkick shouts.
An interesting aside is that the Carlisle manager cut from the same cloth as Evatt argued that he had got too much wrong in Bolton's favour, in particular that Kioso should not have been on the pitch when equalising. Re this he had a point given the accumulation of loose challenges.
OK watch a game from the 90s, still more so 60s and many fewer bookings and a lot more accepted ( and a lot more crippling injuries too) but nowadays in current context Saturday's game wasn't far out of the norm referee wise. And I always think that if a referee displeases both sides equally it's probably a sign that he's done pretty well most of the time or at least been fair.
In a related point I don't like the quoted repeated self assertions that Evatt is honest, speaks with integrity , tells it how it is firstly because it doesn't need saying and for others to judge, secondly because how it is is dependent upon individual perception and prejudice and anyway football is a game closer to an art than a science however much artificail science is applied; but most of all thirdly because it's irrelevant.
I'm seriously not impressed just now, but anyone can learn and improve, so let's see if he does?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2021 21:03:13 GMT
There's no defence for not making any substitutes even if it was just to try and freshen things up a bit no excuse. We need more from our so called manager for God sake we paid £250.000 for his services he needs to start earning his money and very quickly stay safe one and all COYWM
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Post by OohMac on Jan 2, 2021 22:50:15 GMT
The only defence Evatt has got is that some novice assembled a squad that he didnt pick and he needs time to put that right.
I dont buy that by the way because as soon as anyone turns in a few decent performances he talks about how he spotted it for a long time and thats why he brought them. Santos and Kioso mainly.
Given the Fylde coast connection i believe IE had far more say in this set of players than he admits to.
FV wont sack him. They paid too much money. They arent getting any more incoming and theres probably not an obvious candidate that that can come, make his signings and change this season. (Without bringing him own staff)
I think FV will try and write off this season. Problem is were in relegation form.
Got to a point where i just plain dont like the guy. I dont agree with how he interprets a game, dont like his man management of players, hes a stubborn man who wont change despite being a novice. If you're not going to use a sub you better make sure you win the game. Not lose it without scoring for the 2nd game on the trot. Thats not football thats this is me and my ego playing games. Sending out a message.
I wouldnt back him in Jan. Think Keith Hill had a better success rate.
This time next year Ian Evatt could very well be a non league manager again. FV step up and make sure its not whilst hes at Bolton.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 13:51:30 GMT
Well david, I suppose the negativity is just a hangover from alptrotter's thread. (in reference to your post on the Exeter thread) We were very poor when he posted this. I bet he's laughing now, especially if we get promoted.
The tactics are dire and imo we have been lucky with certain results. All part of the game, of course.
Have we become the boring, boring Arsenal of Lge 2?
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Post by whitesince63 on May 3, 2021 17:04:11 GMT
A certain amount of “negativity” is perhaps understandable Wots, given our falls, trials and tribulations over the last decade or more, but is it realistic? What did we really expect from IE, who initially was saddled with players he obviously didn’t choose himself, with a boss who knows little about football anyway and a recent history which would make anyone’s toes curl? Given all of this I think he’s done a bloody remarkable job. Ok it’s not finished yet but I’m convinced it will be on Saturday and then we can move on to stage 2 of the recovery. What happened on Saturday was terribly disappointing and IE looked as gutted as the rest of us, but in reality, it might not matter because we have a second chance this weekend to make up for it. Even if that also goes pear shaped, we still have a third chance through the play offs, so we shouldn’t get too despondent yet. We’ve actually played some of the best football we’ve done for years but yes, we have struggled at times and I’m sure could have made the job easier by taking chances we’ve missed but ask yourself seriously, would you really prefer to be in our position on Saturday or Morecambes? It has to be ours because whatever Morecambe do, they have to rely on us not winning and even then know they have to win themselves. I think the negativity of the likes of rftr and OM is really not negativity at all but a feeling that confidence is once again going to be drained. That’s understandable but even in the worst case scenario that we don’t go up at all, I don’t believe there’s any reason to even consider a change of management. I don’t think it will come to that but even if it does I’d back IE every time to put it right next season with a full squad of his own and the lessons he’s learned from this season.
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