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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2020 21:36:39 GMT
Here's an interesting stat in Lge 2.
Morecambe top, 2 points clear of Cambridge in second place with plus 7 goal difference. Morecambe's goal difference minus 1.
It's points that counts...
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Post by Alptrotter on Oct 11, 2020 9:14:24 GMT
Like everyone I was also disappointed with another stumbling performance in which we never got out of second gear (or maybe we only have two gears). Defensively the current back three look solid and competent, I am still unconvinced by Crellin. His distribution is terrible and he certainly doesn't command his area. Midfield as many have argued is pedestrian. Tutte is OK as a defender, as the man to prompt attacks, he just doesn't have the game. Sarcevic looks unfit and he certainly has not worked out how to play with the out of form Crawford. He needs pace and speed of movement of the ball in order to thrive. Hickman is OK on the right, but Mascoll looks a bit soft and ineffectual - a Buckley retread I fear. Delfounrso is wasted as a midfielder, his close control would surely be more damaging in the final third and, as we can all see Doyle is totally isolated. We need to find a way of moving the ball forward much faster and more penetratingly. Logically, Sarcevic should pick the ball up from the back four ashe has the best range of passing. With Crawford and Darcy looking to move forward and Delfouneso and Doyle camped high up the pitch, Icansee a way in which we could look more threatening. But I still think we look unfit as a unit. There's something not right with the prematch preparation as we are just so lethargic.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 11, 2020 10:10:03 GMT
still seeing a few fabulously deluded comments on bwfc official facebook - (the post right after the game had finished ). Paul Leach : "Did Grimsby come to play football, or just spectate from their half? Great display from the Whites. Bossed the game"
Chris Tong" " Solid point, should have been 3 but onwards we go. Positives, we were much more solid at the back and you can see the build up play coming together" Callum Jones " Cannot believe we haven’t won that. Played some good football but lacked the goal we deserved. Needed to win, but still a decent performance"Soild point lol.. that's the kind of thing you say when you play a better side than you away from home and you grind out a result. here's a few stats/facts to shoot some of those guys down. www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/9/Seasons/8306/Stages/18827/TeamStatistics/England-League-Two-2020-2021goals scored. we're 23rd out of 24. only grimsby are below us, and they've not played their full quota of games. we've scored 2. top have 10. even midtable have 5. we're not just 1 behind. we're 50% of what a mid-ranked side has !!!shots per game. we're 20th on 9.2 shots per game. forest green in top place have double our shots ..on 19.6 ! (< y/day we only had 8) shots on target per game... we're joint bottom with 2 other teams on 2.2 per game. the top 9 sides in the rankings all have double this amount. bradford top with 5.7 defensively. .shots conceded per game. we're in the bottom 5. with 14.6 conceded per game. the best team Carlisle again virtually halve our record 7.8 . goals conceded... 6 conceded. slightly better than I'd have thought here. we're still bottom half. worst have 13 Oldham , and best only conceded 2 ( port vale, cheltenham) . the bookies are finally catching on. we've gone from 2nd fave for promotion to 7th fave. i'm expecting to see that fall further in the coming weeks. agree with Alp....fitness does seem to be an issue. AndyL has mentioned it in several match reports. our 2nd halves have been pretty awful. even last week ,we were retreating and clinging on. the Newport 2nd half was abysmal..no shots on target. that's the only hope of some miraculous change of fortune that this fitness grounding will pay off in 2nd half of season. but I thought high pressing sides like Leeds (under Bielsa) were meant to start the season well and then flounder in the Spring ( like they did one year) several people say Leeds were helped by the lockdown as their players got a midseason break to recover.
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 11, 2020 10:35:31 GMT
They’re all just excuses rtf, fitness, no crowd, just excuses. You can see clearly on the pitch that the players either can’t or won’t play a high tempo game. I watched a lot of Barrow games from last season and frankly I didn’t see this high tempo game people keep going on about. I saw a team who get the ball forward quickly through midfield to the forwards, which was quite impressive but what I never saw was this pity patty play it around at the back stuff that we’ve got now. I can only think that Evatt May have fallen for his own hype. I still firmly maintain that we have the players to Dominate in this league but only if they stop this fannying about at the back and work to get the ball forward quickly. Again, most of Barrows goals were scored by catching teams on the break so this emphasis on retaining possession as the primary function is wasted. We are just so slow getting the ball up to the front men and I honestly can’t recall one through ball that Doyle has so far had to run on to. Only Crawford tries to do this but sadly the players he’s playing with don’t seem to have the awareness to make the runs from them. Our movement generally is poor, by the time we have the ball at half way it’s taken so long we have a full defence back to thwart us. Evatt may not be an experienced manager but he is an experienced footballer so surely he can see this? My hope is that in what remains of the window he can bring in someone up front who can dominate and bully defenders, creating opportunities for others because we are just too lightweight without that at this level.. I just watched our highlights from yesterday and it illustrates perfectly our problem. When the Grimsby player received the ball, with one touch they accelerated forwards creating space and momentum for team mates. We receive a ball and stand still looking for someone to pass to, meanwhile the opposition are on us and everything from there is panic and rush. Unless Evatt sees this and changes it I genuinely do fear for our league place.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 11, 2020 15:56:06 GMT
i'd presumed Hickman had got a bit of a knock or something. although he had a few wayward crosses, he did put in 1 or 2 good ones and looked about the best chance of creating a goal. www.whoscored.com/Matches/1486855/LiveStatistics/England-League-Two-2020-2021-Bolton-Grimsbyin player stats >> passing.. the stats show Hickman put in 12 crosses ..3 accurate. Mascoll put in 5...1 accurate. problem for Evatt is he puts Brockbank to rwb... 4 crosses 0 accurate. and Gordon 2 crosses. 0 accurate. ( although i do recall one decent low cross from Gordon. don't think the stats count them. not sure. ) presumably Evatt thinks Crawford can put in a decent ball seeing as he takes our corners & free kicks generally...why did he not try him out wide, move Sarcevic into no.10 role behind strikers, and bring either Darcy or Riley into m/f. or like i said originally ..put a true winger on in GNAHOUA. according to Sarcevic's profile on here : www.whoscored.com/Players/134632/Show/Antoni-Sarcevic his strengths are long shots, dribbling & key passes. those seem a bit more suited to a more advanced role. Sarce had 0 shots y/day. we need to be getting more out of him one way or another , as he's proven at this level.
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Post by andyl on Oct 11, 2020 16:20:49 GMT
One reason I offered a nine for Santos was his powerful command of anything aerial. He dominated his opponent. But upfront for us it's a real weakness. Delfouneso might be at times OK with the ball at his feet but he's much too flimsy under challenge and aerially wins nothing at all. Just look how Gordon won the first three headers on that side. I'm not arguing for a Madine like ( not that he was any good in the air) slow moving back to goal presence ( and his close control and bodily strength was good). But I am arguing that we need to be able to challenge, create second ball chances for forward moving midfielders and generally pose a threat on corners and set pieces. So far as I can see only Delaney has any idea about how to attack a corner and over and beyond this only Baptiste poses any kind of threat. Again yesterday he came closeish with one shot.
Doyle is a good enough runner and given the chance Sarcevic and Crawford could pick him out. We may see Isgrove able to. But yesterday only really Brockbank launched the ball forward anywhere near him and the same player also found Mascoll well a couple of times. Just maybe Brockbank is the one who could do the holding midfield player role. Nothwithstanding that in my opinion at Harrogate and yesterday it was Brockbank who made us look mobile at the back and Brockbank who set the shape which helped Delaney receive so many keeper throw outs and Santos to have a clearly defined power role. It was markedly more shambolic once Baptiste came on and no coincidence that they looked a lot more like scoring then.
Thanks for the cross reference , rtf, and yes I have several times raised questions about fitness and in particular fitness for what we seem to be trying to do. Don't get me wrong here, please anyone. I disliked Parky's tactics and will be more than pleased if later in the season we really can play a possession game and exhaust opponents. But a Parky game, allowing opponents to play does at least conserve some energy. It feels all the time here as if Ian Evatt is learning his trade as we go along.
I think the absence of crowds is really hitting us harder than some others. At home we would not have tolerated such sluggishness and our energy would have made a sizeable difference. Also because we are very much a team whose strengths will lie in counter attacking we need opponents home crowds to drive them on to the point where we can counter attack and where Doyle doesn't have two or three men round him all the time. But we are where we are and Evatt has to come up with a way of contriving advantage for us. The 3 a the back model allows an extra forward. It also allows two defensive midfielders if he wants to build from the back. Tutte did OK and indeed there is an option to play Sarcevic deeper where he could launch quick counter attacks- I think that he is the best and most incisive passer in the team.
The transfer market beckons and it's obvious from the pattern of subs yesterday that we need more attacking options if we can keep them fit but it's also obvious that we need more aerial ability and some means of getting closer to Doyle and winning knockdowns for him. We need someone to occupy and outmuscle defenders. Delfouneso can dribble forward but would not best a bluebottle. We simply cannot afford him. O for Wilbraham even two, three or four years ago whom Parky largely spurned but who showed us the value of target men in lower leagues when he opposed us for Rochdale at the age of 39, wasn't it? Nor is it necessary to be a man mountain up there. McGinlay won lots of back to goal challenges because he could jump. Holdsworth won lots because he could draw fouls. SKD was excellent of course.. There just has to be a threat. It can also be speed. Nathan Blake was good enough in the air but he was so scarily quick that he obliged defenders to lie deep and this then brought midfielders into space..
Yesterday there were some signs of defensive stability even with flakiness in goal. There were also glimpses of ability on the flanks from Mascoll, Gordon and Hickman. Tutte and Sarcevic were fairly steady. Brockbank, Delaney and Santos all had moments when they pushed up well. Passing accuracy wasn't great but I've seen worse. Tutte was quite tidy really. But in a game against a deep-lying defence with the onus on BWFC to attack we were way too ponderous, the speed of passing was too slow and the ball carrying poor. We just offered no threat from long balls, short balls, progressive inter-passing and most of all from wide areas which we reached a handsome number of times only to fire crosses long or short or ahead or behind, rendering our team toothless. This is what Evatt has to change and in my opinion Delfouneso goes to the bench forthwith.
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Post by westandlower on Oct 11, 2020 20:02:32 GMT
I think that people have generally been harsh on Delfouneso. He had a poor game yesterday, but generally in previous games he's had the chance to dribble and beat defenders but maybe without his play leading to a goal (yet). Similarly people have been too generous with Brockbank. He's more of what I call a row Z defender - happy to boot a lose ball out of touch or upfield when under pressure. He's certainly not a ball player and given the opportunity would be one of the first to be benched as he doesn't fit the type of defender Evatt wants. That's not to say that row Z defenders don't have their place at this level.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the dressing room post match. What does Evatt really think of the players and their attempt to play "his way"? Similarly, I'd like to be in the pub with the players once they'd changed to hear what they think of Evatt's tactics? I think some of them would be saying "not a lot". Another 3 or 4 performances similar to the season so far, and he'll start to lose some of the dressing room after a big defeat and some tea cup throwing.
He wasn't on my wish list of managers and he's certainly not winning me over yet. Unless something major changes, Doyle won't score 12 goals and we'll finish bottom 6.
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 12, 2020 7:57:49 GMT
I think that people have generally been harsh on Delfouneso. He had a poor game yesterday, but generally in previous games he's had the chance to dribble and beat defenders but maybe without his play leading to a goal (yet). Similarly people have been too generous with Brockbank. He's more of what I call a row Z defender - happy to boot a lose ball out of touch or upfield when under pressure. He's certainly not a ball player and given the opportunity would be one of the first to be benched as he doesn't fit the type of defender Evatt wants. That's not to say that row Z defenders don't have their place at this level. I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the dressing room post match. What does Evatt really think of the players and their attempt to play "his way"? Similarly, I'd like to be in the pub with the players once they'd changed to hear what they think of Evatt's tactics? I think some of them would be saying "not a lot". Another 3 or 4 performances similar to the season so far, and he'll start to lose some of the dressing room after a big defeat and some tea cup throwing. He wasn't on my wish list of managers and he's certainly not winning me over yet. Unless something major changes, Doyle won't score 12 goals and we'll finish bottom 6. I think that’s a bit harsh on Brocky Westy, he and Delaney have made a massive difference to the defence and whilst I totally disagree with your “row z” comment, I would prefer it to go in row z than to the opposition because none of his teammates are showing to receive the ball from him. Someone on another site said Evatt is still learning about his players and his decision to move Brockbank into Hickmans role was to test him out there. I can see some logic in that because it’s true, Evatt is still learning about his squad and their capabilities. Evatt wasn’t my first choice either but for now I’m still 100% behind him but like you I’m beginning to lose a little confidence in his methods. His resistance to using Darcy and Alexander, even On the bench, worries me as does his reluctance to try different methods to suit the players until their fitness improves and he has his key players back. You’re spot on about Doyle and his scoring, if we don’t start playing to his strengths soon even 12 would be an improbability.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 12, 2020 11:46:36 GMT
We've had 11 shots on target so far. in 5 Lge games. excluding injury time... that's 450 mins... average of 41mins per shot on target.
curiosity got the better of me, and I had to look up who'd actually got these "blessed" shots in.
game 1. fgr. 2 : 1 sarce & 1 for crawford game 2. colch 2 : 1 doyle & 1 for crawford game 3. newp. 3 : 1 taft , 1 delf, & 1 for crawford. game 4 harrogate 4 : doyle 2 , 1 sarce, 1 delf game 5. grimsby 0
so in summary :
doyle 3 crawford 3 sarce 2 delf 2 taft 1
total = 11
Oldham up next for us and they've shipped 13 goals... worst total in the Div. could be a chance to add a few more to our total. although the "shots conceded" stats for Oldham are surprisingly ok. better than ours, even though we've only conceded 6. maybe their keeper is seriously dodgy. certainly not a game for us to be shot-shy in. Oldham have scored 7 , compared to our 2. they are rock bottom, with no wins. pressure is on a bit to win this one, but can they relax & be composed....enjoy it...but still graft hard.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Oct 12, 2020 12:32:47 GMT
some interesting clips from the excellent : twitter.com/analysis_bwfclooking into the decision to sub the 2 wingbacks, and put Brocky and Gordon in their place. like many people I suspect , he concludes it was a bad decision. here's a few sample clips but there's plenty more on his twitter page. (ignore the odd duplicated vid as the tweets are in threads and not the easiest to copy.)
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Post by davidm on Oct 12, 2020 13:13:14 GMT
I see that unbeaten Salford - P5 W2 D3 L0 - have sacked their manager.
"the style of football Alexander's team was producing did not match expectations."
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 12, 2020 21:41:58 GMT
Thanks for the clips above rtf, very revealing. Other than the crosses, which I personally didn’t think were as bad as Evatt, I was impressed by Hickmans ball control on several of them, which coming over his shoulder were not easy. I can understand IE being frustrated by half time, I think we all were but surely he must regret making the subs when he did? In fact one of the passes which Maskell slid through with the outside of his foot was similar to one by Belgium last night which the pundits were raving over but hey ho. Once again though, I’d maintain that if you don’t have a direct target man to aim crosses at, then your crosses will never be accurate simply because there is no real target. I know it may go against the grain but Evatt could do worse than look for a big target man to win these headers in the box, someone like a Madine or Wilbraham before the window closes, or at worst give a Faal a try out, another existing player who has never been given a chance. Seems to be a pattern that with players he hasn’t signed!!
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Post by westandlower on Oct 12, 2020 21:43:47 GMT
Yes, David I saw that. Sobering. Don't believe Salford have lost yet.
I'd gladly swap league positions with them but of course style is important too. If we had the same number of points as we have now but you could see progress and not the same errors, it would be more acceptable.
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Post by andyl on Oct 13, 2020 8:50:57 GMT
I do like the clips and statistics. crossing will always be a hit and miss art. Most will remember Feeney's erratic crosses, sometimes superb most often not. Further back David Lee used to exasperate haring down the wing and aiming for no-one but who will forget Liverpool. Morais was extremely successful in his postman year and back in the reaches of history I remember being delighted by some of Garry Jones'looping crosses if ever he was out on the left and Peter Thompson was just a different class even above Willie Morgan who was good. In a different vein I used to be excited by Freddie Hill's bye line snaking dribbles. Passing from the bye line to oncoming forwards is ever likely to yield more fruit.
Hickman was erratic for sure and his crosses were from too deep but there is a glimmer of something within. That was certainly the side from which we offered the most threat in, I agree, a reasonable first half.
The clips underline my concerens re Delfouneso. Whilst I would agree with weststandlower that it's perhaps a bit harsh to be down on him too soon, the clips show a worrying lack of awareness and lack of control under pressure. He did score against Harrogate but missed a couple in earlier games and even the Harrogate one he just hit with the fortune that the keeper showed him a way through. But with greater confidence and success he may develop more of the excellent control we have seen in glimpses. I'm not convinced yet. I am however firmly of the opinion that he is not complementing Doyle, not least because he wins nothing whatsoever in the air but also because he is operating at distance making it easier for Doyle's markers. I'm not a great fan of having one upfront, especially a Doyle type poacher but it is an option if midfield has more numbers to compensate.. Maybe the mix will get better. Maybe Isgrove will be provider. Time will tell. It's not yet a time for despair but it will be a long haul assuming Covid lets the season develop.
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 13, 2020 9:28:21 GMT
But don’t you think we need more than just one dimension Andy? We all want to see free flowing football and like you I’m no fan of one up top but if that one is supported both out wide and from midfield, it can work well and be hugely productive. I’m absolutely certain that had Parkinson better supported Madine with the likes of Alf, Armstrong and others instead of isolating him, things would have been hugely better. Just having a big target man doesn’t mean you can’t still play a fast open, passing game but it does give you options if plan A isn’t working. I wish I could say I’m confident that things will quickly improve but at the moment I see no sign of it. I’m certain the ability is in there somewhere but it’s whether IE can get it out of them and so far he doesn’t seem able to do that.
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