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Post by andyl on Mar 19, 2020 12:13:41 GMT
Just by way of a more positive thread, I think I'm beginning to see around me in a variety of contexts some more socially responsible behaviour, a bit more community spirit and more thinking and planning going into some social activity. I happen to be the secretary of my local golf club and it's difficult, really difficult just now but more people are coming forward with ideas and more are taking the time to assess risks and help run things than hitherto. So, my top three picks for what I'd like to see , and I throw open the challenge to you all to add others are:
1. EPL, EFL, clubs, TV providers and FA/UEFA/FIFA doing something about the inequalities of income and cost and redistributing or raising more of their income to keep less fortunate clubs viable and competition fairer across the world
2. Supporters more sensitive to their older and more vulnerable peers, for example by respecting those who wish to sit and support their team at away ground
3. Much closer attention to the safety and health of spectators by small actions, cleaning, litter removal, sanitation generally, more audible communications at the ground and attention to queue management- less herding into small areas of a ground or tight concourses etc.etc
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Post by riochforthereebok on Mar 19, 2020 15:34:04 GMT
AndyL It’s a great read and you make some decent recommendations/thoughts
In line with the ‘rich getting richer’ tag, you might get the odd Juan Mata donating his wealth because he’s quite philanthropic, but for a mass amount of the rich and famous to do the same or similar is asking way too much. Greed will win in the end
I too hope that throughout all of this stressful unprecedented change to life that we as humans find some humanity in looking after our friends, relatives, neighbours and even build bridges with those we are not so friendly with. Football is secondary in all of this. In fact, but for today’s announcement of a further delay to the EFL re starting, I hadn’t even given football much thought Hope I’ve not missed your point and gone off tangent 😬
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Post by whitesince63 on Mar 19, 2020 15:36:47 GMT
Good luck with those Andy, especially number 1. I’m glad you’re seeing more community spirit because most of what I see is total selfishness and an I’m alright Jack attitude in stores and supermarkets. Of course there are people thinking of others and doing wonderful things but sadly I think they’re in the minority. It’s no secret from other threads that I think Western Governments have handled the CV problem abominably. Closing everything down to save deaths in over 70’s and the vulnerable is not only physically but financially crazy. Put all your money and effort into the vulnerable, even if that means taking draconian measures and let the rest of the community deal with the very minor effects CV is proved to deliver.
Closing schools is pure madness, just wait for the gangs of youths, bored, nothing to do, who will soon be recruited by drug and criminal gangs. Think I’m over pessimistic. Just wait and see. Crime will certainly rise due to families having a lack of income, the government can’t possibly ensure people don’t suffer financially. People just won’t accept the impositions and will soon rise up against them and we know there are many parties ready and waiting to create public unrest.
Sorry I don’t share your optimism Andy but I really do fear the worst is ahead of us, self destructed by governments who think throwing our taxes away is the way to deal with this.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2020 15:58:30 GMT
My view:
1. I think that this is an age old question since the beginning of the Premier League, but as whites quite rightly says... Good luck with that one.
You can go back to Gartside's thinking of two top leagues, with only one promoted into it. Thus shutting the door on clubs such as BWFC, Sunderland etc. (Could have been City at one time)
My opinion is that eventually richer clubs will own smaller clubs as a farm team, as per baseball NFL, NHL etc. in North America.
People will come up with good ideas, but essentially they'll have someone like Trevor Brooking paid an enormous amount to do nothing. e.g. the Burton Training Centre. Jobs for the boys and money in the wrong places.
2. I think that this is a personal grievance Andy, which you should take up with the owners of BWFC. Not that you'd be alone in this.
3. As 2.
Sorry that I can't help you anymore on your post.
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Post by thegrud1 on Mar 19, 2020 21:46:26 GMT
As far as keeping lower league clubs solvent there should be a transfer levy on all premier league transfers to subsidise/help lower league teams in trouble...that way no lower league team is beholden to any premier league team
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Post by whitesince63 on Mar 21, 2020 8:30:09 GMT
Problem is Grud, the PL and the teams in there don’t give a monkeys about the EFL so they’re never going to agree to give those teams any part of their riches. When a single player in the PL takes home as much as an entire squad in the EFL it’s clear football as we know it is gone forever. The sooner the top European clubs clear off and form a league of their own and let us get back to four proper divisions again with money more evenly spread the better.
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Post by andyl on Mar 22, 2020 11:30:58 GMT
I entirely agree with the idea of a levy, grud.
Here's one good thing--we aren't having to listen or read the thoughts of our manager every day. All the recent performances fade into nothingness- whenever football restarts the season's experience will be erased- even if this year's league is extended. It remains to be seen whetehr fans will re-emerge with enthusiasm or the remission will have kicked out our bwfc habits never to be restored. There could just be a 'post war'- surge in the popularity of the lower leagues and local teams.
It has proved ever so difficult, though, to form a rational context for results or indeed any realistic assessment of manager or team because of the smokescreen of spouted nonsense. He may just be a better manager than verbally he appears- probably is...We can fantasise and despair may evolve into hope when we can get going again!
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Post by OohMac on Mar 22, 2020 20:18:32 GMT
Sorry for the crudeness but only good thing about the virus is that our old chairman is considered "at risk" with him being over 70 and with a stone for a heart. Its one thing he cannot escape by fleeing off into european tax havens.
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Post by OohMac on May 1, 2020 18:39:25 GMT
Just had a thought of something, well it was on the radio and they were giving odds on Belarus football and i thought it was pathetic and hopefully younger people will also see the gambling industry for what it is and hopefully anyone who was gambling a bit too much has had a month break and maybe uninstalled the apps and realised he doesnt miss it.
I'm not anti gambling by the way, I have a bet but think the industry since the smart phone has made it a real problem and not taking enough responsibility.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2020 19:24:08 GMT
They won't switch off Oom, they'll just find another avenue to lose money. I'm not anti gambling either, I had $200 with bet 365 online, which lasted three seasons and then... closed my account. Cheap entertainment? Yes, but the Coates woman bragging about her multi million dollar wages peed me off.
I did well in the stock market some years back, but it's people like Musk in today's paper that make a mockery of the market. Twittering that the stock is too high and it fell 11 per cent in one day. Criminal at best. He should go to jail, 'cos he can afford the fines. His comments didn't help the real estate market either.
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Post by OohMac on May 1, 2020 20:46:15 GMT
Wouldnt know too much but isnt that insider trading?
I think some addicts of course will be on the spin games by now but i suspect that football is a gateway for further gambling and hopefully this break will cool that impulse.
Worse is that on every internet account they know the trouble patterns, the win lose ratio they could easily intervene.
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Post by whitesince63 on May 2, 2020 9:35:51 GMT
The problem is OM, that people tend to gamble more in times of hardship, seeing it as a way to “win” back what they’ve lost. It’s silly I know because all these bookmakers and gambling firms rig it so they never lose out. Even the people gambling know that but still can’t resist betting. I was in Morrisons just before the lockdown buying ONE line on the Euromillions when it reached some silly amount whilst in front of me was a woman who spent over £60 on scratch cards of various descriptions. Now they may not all have been for her but as she was deciding off the hoof which ones to buy I suspect they were.
Unfortunately we live today in a society based on greed and selfishness. It is true than when we were kids just after the war, few had anything, but we were all much the same and there were no brands, no supermarkets and no internet or social media. I knew everyone for about 3 streets? There were wealthy areas like Worsley so much to aspire to but I don’t think there was the jealousy or bitterness there is today. Most importantly though, people largely lived within their means, debt was low, you saved up for things and hire purchase was available but sensibly and most only used it for essentials.
I’m not trying to be nostalgic, times were tough but since you didn’t know any better you just got on with it and accepted it. Football was a working mans game. Players were sensibly paid, well paid but not ridiculously and still within the ratio of ordinary workers. It will never go back to that, whatever happens with Covid-19 and the PL clubs and authorities will never succumb to bailing out the EFL teams, that’s just a pipe dream but that’s not to say there couldn’t be a major rethink. Maybe now is the time for the European league which has been talked about so much with the top 6 or 8 clubs in the major countries forming their own PL leaving countries free to reform their national leagues into a fairer and more sustainable entity. That would bring something good from CV as Andy originally ventured from this thread. The big teams will always be selfish so let them get on with it and leave proper football to us.
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Post by OohMac on May 2, 2020 14:46:30 GMT
I liken it kids at xmas. It used to be you got what you could afford and it was still the best day of the year. Now its you get what you want regardless of affordability.
I would hope that clubs now start to think 'this is incoming, therefore this is wage budget, transfer kitty and this is rainy day money... if you get a good cup run, sell on a player then we can talk'
Truth is weve seen JayJay, Hierro, Campo, Anelka and Diouf. Realistically if we did things the right way that would never have happened.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2020 16:17:21 GMT
Obviously, I never knew the finances of the string of fabulous players that Sam brought in, but it was a once in a lifetime to see them. Had Gartside let Sam get on with Europe, I think it would have been a different story. I'm sure he left because Gartside held up his personal ambitions, although Sam was a part of the greed which should see football change it's ways, given the present circumstances.
Biggest mistake was giving 45 million to Megson and still exiting Europe in the most embarrassing way. For me the Megson period and the Anderson period are the two biggest mistakes that led to our being where we are. Okay, there were other poor quality managers, but then they were operating when all the money was spent.
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Post by whitesince63 on May 3, 2020 8:22:48 GMT
I agree with that wots, had they backed Sam I’ve no doubt we’d have won a CL place and that would have transformed our fortunes completely. Sadly it wasn’t to be and Gartside then compounded his mistake by appointing LSL when a much more experienced manager would have been far more sensible. Compounding the mistake by then bringing Megson in only poured fuel on the growing fire. I’ve never understood the criticism of BSA for bringing in the great players he did on big money. He got most of them without transfer fees and on short term contracts. I heard him explain once to an interviewer that it was non risk because if he failed and we were relegated, they were out of contract anyway so unlike most relegated PL teams we aren’t stuck with big wage deals and can spend the parachute money on getting back up again. I accept Megson is generally criticised for spending mega money unwisely and I agree but we shouldn’t underestimate the large amount Lee wasted in his few games in charge and those players we were stuck with on big money. Hindsight’s a wonderful thing and with it we can all be experts but actually most of us at the time saw the problems with Gartside but sadly Edwin didn’t.
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