Post by andyl on Feb 18, 2019 17:07:59 GMT
Since you posted this, rftr, and in the light of others' responses I've been wondering how to contribute and thought about it a bit on Saturday- there being little else to occupy a BWFC fan's thoughts
1. Fans located together in close proximity
'The greater part of the audience which is collected upon these occasions seat themselves, spend their time in talk, every now and then enquire how things are going; they look in and withdraw before the end, some by stealth, some without ceremony' not a description here of fans at a BWFC match- but of Romans at public recitations in the late first century AD.- Pliny
A little earlier when the Emperor Nero went on a performance tour he forced people to turn up and stay in their seats- women gave birth there and some feigned death in order to be carried out- the latter is worth considering when watching BWFC?
But he also , not long before Pompeii was buried under lava, closed down the amphitheatre there for 10 years because after a local derby gladiatorial match the people quickly moved from throwing insults to throwing rocks and fighting.
So, nothing is new! Unchecked fan behaviour. Away visits are a nightmare for those like me who can no longer stand for 90 minutes and a percentage of our fans are embarrassing, riotous sometimes and objectionable at all times. At home if I attend a cup game on the flanks, as often as not people arrive 5 minutes into the game and they or others go out once or twice each half. They do not as yet stand but it would soon come
In sum, to encourage attendance make people want to stay rather than feign death; have proper stewarding; and encourage fan behaviour that is inclusive and respectful. Human nature will not change but the club has to give a lead and decent fans have to set the cultural norms. I am old enough, as are some others here, to remember shouts of ' Siddown' if ever we stood up and indeed a time where it was safe, more or less, to whirl rattles in 30,000 plus crowds at Burnden!
2. What is the attendance norm for BWFC?
The rump of core fans is quite limited really. I can recall at Burnden attendances of 6 or 7, 000 and even for major matches from the late sixties on they seldom reached the heights of 20,000. Generations affect this and the era from 1990- 2010 or so was quite progressive on the field as it was in the late 70s. I can remember the arguments about live TV and football and indeed Bolton being at Blackpool an early live game. I'm not convinced that TV or other activities often cited actually suppress live attendances; indeed I get bored by TV games and still enjoy the experience of going to a match- there's nothing to compare even in these dark days at the UBOL- watching on the red button in midweek is eerily bizarre and scrabbling round for live feeds has little appeal. I think we'll get close to 20,000 if we are competing at the top any league or close to relegation in a final game. The live match is all and the excitement potential undiluted.
3. Football shoots itself in the foot
Once upon a time before the Big Bad Premier League clubs had reserve leagues and put out their best teams in FA and League Cups. Reserve leagues engendered competition for first team places within clubs and a vehicle for young players to emerge tested alongside men. The chance to win silverware excited communities and filled grounds. Now the top two leagues routinely swallow up the best players not play them or use them in under 23/development squad settings. They also like entering second string teams for cup competitions and demean them but worse, clubs like Bolton field changed teams and surprise, surprise get knocked out. Fans respond and attendances for 3rd round/4th round home FA Cup matches fall below 10,000. It's bonkers and all driven by those who are already rich. We even had to endure GM fielding a sub strength UEFA cup team to be stronger in a vital match on a mud heap at Wigan.. Seriously!! And we lost it.
Possibly we need fewer games with more riding on on each game. Administrators could be much more radical than forever protecting the status quo. They could also stick to 3am on a Saturday much more so that routines are established. And they could reinvigorate the cups. The vested interests of the Premier League and to a lesser extent the EFL are diminishing everyone's entertainment
Clubs have never in my lifetime been equals. Tottenham would beat Crewe scoring 13 ( who can remember that?) but even competition is vital most of the time if interest is to be maintained . The EPL and television excess have temporarily ruined competitiveness for all but a handful of clubs in each league. No wonder the product struggles overall?
4. Small things
I once got shot down before for arguing that absence of litter, fun use of mascots, pre- match entertainment all add up to a reason to attend; they obviously don't amount to an experience that can offset dull, losing football
5. Encouraging more women to attend
Women's football is growing apace. Maybe rather as at certain cricket matches or on charity days we could have a BWFC Ladies match at 12 and the men at 3 March- May, Aug- Oct. If the whole experience of football was more representative of and targeted to men and women alike maybe crowds would grow. Lots of women do attend football of course but the challnege of the moment is to respond to the rise in popularity of women's football and see how it could enhance club prosperity
6. Starting out with a concept that football is entertainment
Results are important but they aren't everything. Football isn't a circus or else we'd all want ball jugglers instead of matches but surely those who want to attract attendances should have regard to skill -- it's a bugbear of mine at the moment that I actually enjoyed watching Otzumer. He tries things and excites. It cannot be right that entertaining footballers are sacrificed in favour of dull, defence that doesn't win anyway. BWFC are in a rut at present. We don't have the ball, we don't entertain. Oztumer is exiled. Le Fondre seldom featured and opted away. We clutch at straws with Connell.. There is a thirst to be entertained and not just to win. I'm sure of it?!
1. Fans located together in close proximity
'The greater part of the audience which is collected upon these occasions seat themselves, spend their time in talk, every now and then enquire how things are going; they look in and withdraw before the end, some by stealth, some without ceremony' not a description here of fans at a BWFC match- but of Romans at public recitations in the late first century AD.- Pliny
A little earlier when the Emperor Nero went on a performance tour he forced people to turn up and stay in their seats- women gave birth there and some feigned death in order to be carried out- the latter is worth considering when watching BWFC?
But he also , not long before Pompeii was buried under lava, closed down the amphitheatre there for 10 years because after a local derby gladiatorial match the people quickly moved from throwing insults to throwing rocks and fighting.
So, nothing is new! Unchecked fan behaviour. Away visits are a nightmare for those like me who can no longer stand for 90 minutes and a percentage of our fans are embarrassing, riotous sometimes and objectionable at all times. At home if I attend a cup game on the flanks, as often as not people arrive 5 minutes into the game and they or others go out once or twice each half. They do not as yet stand but it would soon come
In sum, to encourage attendance make people want to stay rather than feign death; have proper stewarding; and encourage fan behaviour that is inclusive and respectful. Human nature will not change but the club has to give a lead and decent fans have to set the cultural norms. I am old enough, as are some others here, to remember shouts of ' Siddown' if ever we stood up and indeed a time where it was safe, more or less, to whirl rattles in 30,000 plus crowds at Burnden!
2. What is the attendance norm for BWFC?
The rump of core fans is quite limited really. I can recall at Burnden attendances of 6 or 7, 000 and even for major matches from the late sixties on they seldom reached the heights of 20,000. Generations affect this and the era from 1990- 2010 or so was quite progressive on the field as it was in the late 70s. I can remember the arguments about live TV and football and indeed Bolton being at Blackpool an early live game. I'm not convinced that TV or other activities often cited actually suppress live attendances; indeed I get bored by TV games and still enjoy the experience of going to a match- there's nothing to compare even in these dark days at the UBOL- watching on the red button in midweek is eerily bizarre and scrabbling round for live feeds has little appeal. I think we'll get close to 20,000 if we are competing at the top any league or close to relegation in a final game. The live match is all and the excitement potential undiluted.
3. Football shoots itself in the foot
Once upon a time before the Big Bad Premier League clubs had reserve leagues and put out their best teams in FA and League Cups. Reserve leagues engendered competition for first team places within clubs and a vehicle for young players to emerge tested alongside men. The chance to win silverware excited communities and filled grounds. Now the top two leagues routinely swallow up the best players not play them or use them in under 23/development squad settings. They also like entering second string teams for cup competitions and demean them but worse, clubs like Bolton field changed teams and surprise, surprise get knocked out. Fans respond and attendances for 3rd round/4th round home FA Cup matches fall below 10,000. It's bonkers and all driven by those who are already rich. We even had to endure GM fielding a sub strength UEFA cup team to be stronger in a vital match on a mud heap at Wigan.. Seriously!! And we lost it.
Possibly we need fewer games with more riding on on each game. Administrators could be much more radical than forever protecting the status quo. They could also stick to 3am on a Saturday much more so that routines are established. And they could reinvigorate the cups. The vested interests of the Premier League and to a lesser extent the EFL are diminishing everyone's entertainment
Clubs have never in my lifetime been equals. Tottenham would beat Crewe scoring 13 ( who can remember that?) but even competition is vital most of the time if interest is to be maintained . The EPL and television excess have temporarily ruined competitiveness for all but a handful of clubs in each league. No wonder the product struggles overall?
4. Small things
I once got shot down before for arguing that absence of litter, fun use of mascots, pre- match entertainment all add up to a reason to attend; they obviously don't amount to an experience that can offset dull, losing football
5. Encouraging more women to attend
Women's football is growing apace. Maybe rather as at certain cricket matches or on charity days we could have a BWFC Ladies match at 12 and the men at 3 March- May, Aug- Oct. If the whole experience of football was more representative of and targeted to men and women alike maybe crowds would grow. Lots of women do attend football of course but the challnege of the moment is to respond to the rise in popularity of women's football and see how it could enhance club prosperity
6. Starting out with a concept that football is entertainment
Results are important but they aren't everything. Football isn't a circus or else we'd all want ball jugglers instead of matches but surely those who want to attract attendances should have regard to skill -- it's a bugbear of mine at the moment that I actually enjoyed watching Otzumer. He tries things and excites. It cannot be right that entertaining footballers are sacrificed in favour of dull, defence that doesn't win anyway. BWFC are in a rut at present. We don't have the ball, we don't entertain. Oztumer is exiled. Le Fondre seldom featured and opted away. We clutch at straws with Connell.. There is a thirst to be entertained and not just to win. I'm sure of it?!