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Post by andyl on Aug 28, 2018 19:08:55 GMT
I've been having a debate with a fellow BWFC fan in respect of our new signing. Leaving aside issues of what Phil P plans, values and how he works- which have had a good airing on most recent threads I'm beginning to think Erhum Oztumer is at the crux of forward planning, although on admittedly skimpy evidence. The debate goes thus
He: Oztumer is lightweight for this division and when he has featured has been carried. He has shown some flashes but these have not been sustained. It is difficult to know his best position. The game passes him by for the most part. He is out of his depth and Phil is right to use him sparingly.
I: To date I've seen two excellent one twos played off Magennis and several give and go's. I like the energy and quickness to the ball. He seems to have a good left foot with a track record of goals a division below, more than is true of any other of our players. He can switch play and hit short passes. I find his style of play quite exciting- what little I've seen for BWFC. But historically I was very impressed when he took us apart at Walsall two years ago. But yes some passes have gone astray and he's struggling when the ball is played in the air and somewhat superflous when we are out of possession. I thought he played quite well v Birmingham especially late on and the lobbed pass to Buckley rivalled a sublime take down for moments I have most enjoyed this season.
He has a touch of what Zac Clough could do on the ball especially when coming from deep and away from the attentions of opponents. And he also offers a little of what Mark Davies could doif ever moving forward.
Above all the way he appears to want to play is consistent with what I would like to see and would enjoy- I think.
Will either of us be proved right? Will we get the chance to be? It just seems to me that if we were to build a team around his skills and vitality rather than his having to fit into a model defined by defensive expectations out of possession we might just have a real talent in our ranks?
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Post by riochforthereebok on Aug 28, 2018 22:58:56 GMT
AndyL Your piece could have been written by a Leicester fan after they signed Riyad Mahrez, a relatively unknown Algerian from the obscurity of Le Havre somewhere in France. It would be great to imagine we have unearthed the next Jason McAteer but under the leadership of PP I cannot see that progression. The Walsall goals on YouTube might just be masking his talent as he’s never stepped up to Championship level but that said, if we YouTube’d all of Connor Halls goals and just signed him, we’d think we’ve just signed the next Harry Kane
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Post by davidm on Aug 29, 2018 13:49:42 GMT
I am with you on this one, Andy.
We all know Oztumer’s potential, having seen it in two separate games 2 seasons ago.
I thought that he had 2 decent games against Leeds and Birmingham and would like to see him in the team on a regular basis BUT this is a Phil Parkinson team and I can’t see him having that many starts.
Our manager prefers solid workmanlike players not players with flair. There is no other reason for Murphy to be ahead of Oztumer in team selection as he has shown absolutely nothing so far.
I desperately want a bit of positive attacking exciting football in our side which could be provided by the likes of Oztumer, Ameobi, Wildschut etc but we are a battling “stop the opposition and see if we can grab something” type of side so I just don’t think that Oztumer will get much of a chance.
I am beginning to sound a bit like Whites63 but I just long for some excitement from our performances and Oztumer could well provide that excitement.
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Post by whitesince63 on Aug 29, 2018 22:18:51 GMT
I am with you on this one, Andy.
We all know Oztumer’s potential, having seen it in two separate games 2 seasons ago.
I thought that he had 2 decent games against Leeds and Birmingham and would like to see him in the team on a regular basis BUT this is a Phil Parkinson team and I can’t see him having that many starts.
Our manager prefers solid workmanlike players not players with flair. There is no other reason for Murphy to be ahead of Oztumer in team selection as he has shown absolutely nothing so far.
I desperately want a bit of positive attacking exciting football in our side which could be provided by the likes of Oztumer, Ameobi, Wildschut etc but we are a battling “stop the opposition and see if we can grab something” type of side so I just don’t think that Oztumer will get much of a chance.
I am beginning to sound a bit like Whites63 but I just long for some excitement from our performances and Oztumer could well provide that excitement.
Hey, what's wrong with sounding like me David? ;-) You're talking my language in that I'm desperate for some positive football to watch. Why I'm always accused of being "negative" I don't know because I only want exciting adventurous football for our club. I of course accept the limitations in the squad but like you believe we do have the players to play that way but we don't seem to have a manager that believes that. I think we just have to accept the kind of football Parky delivers because there is no sign that he will, or even can change, so I think you're right in that we won't see much of Oz. I'm not sure he was a Parky" signing anyway because he doesn't appear to fit the mould at all of his ideal midfielder so I think he'll be resigned to being benched with occasional starts when we're chasing a game.
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Post by Alptrotter on Aug 30, 2018 8:14:18 GMT
I’ve read this discussion with interest and, from my mountain top, I must say that he looks like neither. I haven’t seen enough to feel confident in arguing a team should be built around him. On the other hand, what little we’ve seen suggests that he could be more than excess baggage.
For myself, there are aspects of Parky’s medium term strategy that I simply don’t get: what’s with his obsession in collecting wide players? When they are always played on the ‘wrong side’ , thus reducing their effectiveness and making us narrow and, in any case, we have so little aerial threat up front, it’s all just weird. Powder puff players expected to hard midfield graft.
Why does he seem to go for identikit central defenders? Ours are hardly fleet of foot and it’s obvious that in the modern game, even at this level, speed and mobility are of the essence. The consequence is that centre midfield is set up purely as a defensive screen for the back four. Their job is not to use the ball creatively. They panic in possession as we’ve seen all too frequently. Therein lies the problem for those advocating Oztumer.
For him to be deployed effectively, I wonder whether we’d be better playing in a midfield diamond, one defensive mid - the lad from Everton or Lowe, two players who can move inside, but also give width when in possession - Now I’m stuck:Noone’s a possibility, but Buckley is feeble, Wildschut lacks control and Ameobi is wasted there, so Vela is also a possibility, so too is Olkowski – I note he has played RM and rehabilitate Little at RB. That allows Oztumer to be a 10, with Ameobi further forward, where he’s more dangerous- free to move right, left or middle in support of Josh up front.
I think there’s a chance that such a team may actually be able to play on the ground and therefore bring the most from Otztumer. Why not try this in a home game against modest opposition?
In short, using the Turkish Messi will require a deal of creative thought and tactical flexibility from Parky and his team. Are they up to it?
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Post by OohMac on Aug 30, 2018 9:27:50 GMT
I think it's odd that we are saying we have to play this way or that way. Shouldn't we consider things like are we at home? Who are the opponents? Will they press? Will they leave gaps?
It's like there's no homework been done we can play away at Tony Pullis'boro prat home against Rotherham and we will play the same way each time.
If Parkinson was in charge of a charity fun day match against celebrities and old players he would set up a 4-5-1 system, foot it up and try and limit and contain them. "Stay in the game!" Posters all over the dressing room.
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Post by whitesince63 on Aug 30, 2018 15:39:47 GMT
There are many intelligent supporters on this site and some really good and well thought out suggestions as to how we might play. It springs from watching the team and squad we have and is something that you would hope your manager and coaching staff would do too but it seems clear from the two plus years Parkinson and Parkin have been here that none of this has applied to them. They appear to have a blueprint of the one and only way they will play, home or away, good team or bad team and whether they have the players to play that way or not. It sounds ridiculous if you think about it that anyone managing at this level could be so inflexible and stubborn but it's obvious that nothing will change whatever the circumstances. Therefore it seems to me pointless discussing where Oz may fit in because if I'm right in my assessment of Parky he basically won't just like neither Alf nor Hall would either. Keep enjoying the hoof guys because that's all we've got coming.
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Post by OohMac on Aug 30, 2018 18:17:06 GMT
It's like I imagined last April King Ken coming to the press and saying "I guarantee we will play an attacking team in our remaining games"
That was basically. Parky you're boring and if you don't change I'm taking it out of your hands. Seen it with Mourinho, fans will accept boring and winning but no fan will accept boring and Losing so when Parky, Big Sam, etc when they lose it does twice the damage.
I said all last season I would be happy to give Parky all the chances in the world Ken I thought there were buds of something better. But there's not and there never will be and what's worse is that this side has the foundation of being an ok side at this level. I'm not getting carried away. We lack a real strong dominant centre back to play alongside a dogged Wheater. We need a midfield dynamo to get the game by the scruff of the next and two championship level strikers. 30 goals between them.
That could have all been done on loan deals. But wont pay a loan fee. Despite what that might be worth with another survival season.
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