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Post by OohMac on Oct 23, 2017 18:13:15 GMT
Now the title for this may seem provocative but with Billic hanging on to dear life, Koeman gone and Shakespeare out of work my question really is should you always sack a man when the pressure is on.
Ok. Sacking a manager is expensive. Risky and not only do you need to sack the background staff you then have to pay for a load more staff. However...
I'm trying to think of a manager who has been "under real pressure" who has weathered the storm, come out the other end and has been seen as a success.
Perhaps it's my bad memory but I can't think of anyone. I'm going back to Alex Ferguson in the late 80s or 90s for a guy to turn it round. So for that one manager leads to 30 years of managers struggling and not ever recovering.
In terms of our club, as soon as a manager becomes under pressure they've gotten worse and needed to be removed and the fact is we've either done it just in time or too late.
Please feel free to give me any examples. I'm talking real pressure. The only other person I can think of is Allardyce at West Ham but that wasn't what I'd call real pressure mainly just anti Sam/West Ham way fans and even when he left with safety and a decent squad they still rejoiced and what do you know. Back where they started.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 23, 2017 19:45:29 GMT
Now the title for this may seem provocative but with Billic hanging on to dear life, Koeman gone and Shakespeare out of work my question really is should you always sack a man when the pressure is on. Ok. Sacking a manager is expensive. Risky and not only do you need to sack the background staff you then have to pay for a load more staff. However... I'm trying to think of a manager who has been "under real pressure" who has weathered the storm, come out the other end and has been seen as a success. Perhaps it's my bad memory but I can't think of anyone. I'm going back to Alex Ferguson in the late 80s or 90s for a guy to turn it round. So for that one manager leads to 30 years of managers struggling and not ever recovering. In terms of our club, as soon as a manager becomes under pressure they've gotten worse and needed to be removed and the fact is we've either done it just in time or too late. Please feel free to give me any examples. I'm talking real pressure. The only other person I can think of is Allardyce at West Ham but that wasn't what I'd call real pressure mainly just anti Sam/West Ham way fans and even when he left with safety and a decent squad they still rejoiced and what do you know. Back where they started. ‘Tis a real toughy to answer that one OooM I foolishly, stupidly thought, ummm, hang on a minute rioch, a win today, Vela and Ameobi back on song, goals going in, points being won, battles being fought with pride in the sleeve, Parky could do this you know!!!! And then the dreaded repeat format, average first half, dreaded second half, no Plan C because the Rizzla paper with Plan A and Plan B wrote on I blew away thanks to ‘Brian’ but getting back to your question, I agree with you, apart from Fergie I can’t think of any manager that’s ridden the storm and lead the team to success or even just stability. Maybe someone like Bruce or McCarthy perhaps Robson at Ipswich back in the day maybe or Pearson at Leicester when they win all those games to avoid the drop in his first Prem season. It ain’t gonna happen for Parkinson though and that’s a fact😞 |
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Post by andyl on Oct 24, 2017 19:27:03 GMT
I can think of a couple!
1. Colin Todd when with McFarland. We kept faith with him when all seemed lost and in despair and then had 1996/7!
2.And people forget but during the first few months whilst Big Sam was getting going many were criticising his long ball tactics. I can recall lots of moaning at Cambridge when he had made Eidur sub and we scraped a 1-1 cup draw. His stroke of genius was to add Paul Ritchie and Allan Johnson to the mix and he didn't look back after that.
I think we need to hold tight. Some things are improving and if PP can find his Ritchie and Johnson in January we could take off. We are a midfielder and a striker short and Buckley could improve that equation when he returns.
We have a couple of things going for us. Firstly our players are getting fit and secondly we have for now a very well connected and committed chairman when it comes to wheeling and dealing and making things happen and it's commendable that he is loyal to the manager- would that the chairpersons of the others mentioned in this list were so steadfast.
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Post by OohMac on Oct 28, 2017 8:43:33 GMT
You may remember better than me Andy but I never thought Todd was under that much pressure. I think everyone at that time just expected us to yo-yo.
Sam may have had the odd grumble but he had two good cup runs which galvanises fans and again I do t recall serious pressure being applied.
I'm not going to take away any thing from Big Sam but I do wonder how much his success was luck or right time and place. He came though with Jussi(in toddy era he was certainly learning his craft and prone to howlers by Sam took over he was possibly the best keeper in the country) Gudni Bergsson as captain was the foundation. I wonder if Colin Henry type could cut it with the standard of the strikers now. Could anyone expect Nolan to come through to be such an integral part of the team and is it possible these days to scout a player like Ricketts. Pay £200k and he returns 20 goals? How much did Hogan go for? Kodje?
Plus when we got to the premiership Sam also landed on his feet that the premier league 'brand' was as such a peak that players like Youri and Jay Jay were willing to play for a club even near the bottom.
However he's proven after Us that I suppose some of that 'luck' was self prescribed. Off topic but that Everton job is tailor made for Big Sam. Already in place is a great keeper, solid big centre backs, a set piece supremo and Rooney who Sam was waxing lyrical about as England coach. The chairman is likely to back the new man in January and Sam in his book says he would love to see what he could do with some backing.
Again off topic but I do not follow the logic of giving Puel at Leicester a 3 year contract but that's by the by. But Craig Shakespeare would definitely be on my radar if I was Kev.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 28, 2017 13:35:53 GMT
You may remember better than me Andy but I never thought Todd was under that much pressure. I think everyone at that time just expected us to yo-yo. Sam may have had the odd grumble but he had two good cup runs which galvanises fans and again I do t recall serious pressure being applied. I'm not going to take away any thing from Big Sam but I do wonder how much his success was luck or right time and place. He came though with Jussi(in toddy era he was certainly learning his craft and prone to howlers by Sam took over he was possibly the best keeper in the country) Gudni Bergsson as captain was the foundation. I wonder if Colin Henry type could cut it with the standard of the strikers now. Could anyone expect Nolan to come through to be such an integral part of the team and is it possible these days to scout a player like Ricketts. Pay £200k and he returns 20 goals? How much did Hogan go for? Kodje? Plus when we got to the premiership Sam also landed on his feet that the premier league 'brand' was as such a peak that players like Youri and Jay Jay were willing to play for a club even near the bottom. However he's proven after Us that I suppose some of that 'luck' was self prescribed. Off topic but that Everton job is tailor made for Big Sam. Already in place is a great keeper, solid big centre backs, a set piece supremo and Rooney who Sam was waxing lyrical about as England coach. The chairman is likely to back the new man in January and Sam in his book says he would love to see what he could do with some backing. Again off topic but I do not follow the logic of giving Puel at Leicester a 3 year contract but that's by the by. But Craig Shakespeare would definitely be on my radar if I was Kev. Great post OooM, just so I’m not lost in translation, just explain that last comment about Shakespear being in the radar, if you was Kev? Sorry, Kev who? |
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Post by OohMac on Oct 28, 2017 13:59:38 GMT
Sorry meant Ken (Anderson). I think the job at hand for Bolton needs more than a suit and tie manager. It needs the whole new approach. That's why I would look to Shakespeare to do the work on the training ground.
If we've little to spend we need to look within and if we're going to let the other team have the ball then we need to make sure we know where the ball needs to go.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 28, 2017 15:40:05 GMT
Sorry meant Ken (Anderson). I think the job at hand for Bolton needs more than a suit and tie manager. It needs the whole new approach. That's why I would look to Shakespeare to do the work on the training ground. If we've little to spend we need to look within and if we're going to let the other team have the ball then we need to make sure we know where the ball needs to go. Thought you meant Ken, cheers for clearing that up OooM What about Mike Phelan as a number two? |
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Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 29, 2017 14:16:20 GMT
Sorry meant Ken (Anderson). I think the job at hand for Bolton needs more than a suit and tie manager. It needs the whole new approach. That's why I would look to Shakespeare to do the work on the training ground. If we've little to spend we need to look within and if we're going to let the other team have the ball then we need to make sure we know where the ball needs to go. Thought you meant Ken, cheers for clearing that up OooM What about Mike Phelan as a number two? Or Michael Appleton for when Leicester drop him |
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Post by OohMac on Oct 29, 2017 15:33:38 GMT
Yeah he was a name I thought of too. You could point to his Blackburn days and dismiss him but at this point you're not going to get the perfect, faultless manager. You need to take a risk on either an unknown or unproven or someone who has done it before with mixed success.
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