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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2016 9:12:47 GMT
If this mornings press is owt to go by then he's finished his football life , I can believe some of what has been reported but as with all stories there are two sides so it looks like its going to be a very interesting few days .
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Post by riochforthereebok on Sept 27, 2016 11:01:54 GMT
Bookies going for Eddie Howe or Steve Bruce already!!!
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Post by whitesince63 on Sept 27, 2016 14:46:11 GMT
It really does amaze me how stupid some people can be. Or is it just greed? Sam gets the job of his dreams and risks it all by agreeing to meet people he's never seen in his life and discusses clearly sensitive issues which he must know would be highly controversial and dangerous for him. Obviously potential money being the prime reason for the meeting sickens you when you think what's at stake. Much as I admire Sam, I wouldn't shed any tears for him if he was sacked but I would be sorry for England who I believe would have delivered under him. Silly, silly man.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2016 18:38:45 GMT
Sam allerdyce has been sacked as England Manager , serves him right .
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Post by riochforthereebok on Sept 27, 2016 19:30:52 GMT
Fool
still our greatest manager in my opinion but we'll never ever know just how good he could have been for the national team. For a position he most coveted, how could he have thrown it away so foolishly, especially knowing what he went through on the Panorama programme!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2016 19:38:45 GMT
Fool still our greatest manager in my opinion but we'll never ever know just how good he could have been for the national team. For a position he most coveted, how could he have thrown it away so foolishly, especially knowing what he went through on the Panorama programme!! Its called greed , No sympathy for him he 's got what he deserved .
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Post by one2many on Sept 28, 2016 8:25:52 GMT
I think more than greed, it must be boredom. What exactly does a national team manager do? He has half a dozen games a year (apart from when there is a tournament in which case England get 3 or 4 more games before going out). He doesn't have to scour the market for transfers. He doesn't have to man manage on a daily basis. 3 million a year to oversee three or four weeks of training and select a team to play Malta?! What do you do with your time? Attend football matches every week, 3-4 hours. Watch videos of other teams 2-3 hours. And.....um...that is it. Either you get a good hobby, do charity work or you try to earn more money with the huge amoount of time left over.
While the rest of us slave for hours to try and make ends meet...silly man. What makes it sadder is that he probably will be offered a new management position soon because he has a good CV. A year of cleaning toilets in a fast food restraunt would do him a world of good and help him to appreciate what he has/had.
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Post by OohMac on Sept 28, 2016 8:58:57 GMT
As a fan of Sam, I think its a real shame. I'm not sure how much more is to come out, the fact that he stepped left 'mutually' makes me think there may be other things they have him on because from what I have seen there wasn't that much he personally said to warrant losing his job. This whole thing has taken me back to the Panarama episode where a lot of mud was slung at him and nothing stuck. There is an agenda in the media against Big Sam no doubt. Perhaps they know or have contacts to say, this is the target there are stories there or not i'm not sure.
I thought there would be a more robust argument from Sam himself, he hasn't come out fighting. This may be the terms of his agreement or he may know there is more to come.
Personally I can see why managers feel aggrieved when they see some of these agents pocketing literally millions for a days work. Pogba's agent got £18M+ to bring a player back to a club that he already played for. Sam as we know started at Limerick. If someone offers you the chance to fly to Dubai and act as an advisor and then says we'll pay you enough to have a property over there too and it won't take up much of your time. You would be hard pushed to say no, especially when you see the amount an agent gets paid.
I think the days of a manager doing the actual leg work on a deal are over now. I don't for one minute think Gold, Sullivan and Brady let Sam Allardyce go out and speak to clubs and agents, they would all have their people doing that. Sam's advisory role would probably have been "i heard that they do this and that"
Whats more disappointing is that for England, a nation with the most watched league, who can sell 80,000 tickets on a Wednesday night against poor opponents and who will always take thousands across the world wherever they play can only attract the likes of Gareth Southgate. A born loser if you ask me. 2nd FAV Steve Bruce and worst of all 3rd favourite is Glenn Hoddle?
The EPL has so much money that the top clubs will always go for the best managers in the world, which is what we have now. So English managers won't get the breaks, except that the English manager like the players, are too lazy and too comfy in England. Why not try and learn their trade in other nations. If an Englishman went to Spain, Italy and succeeded he would be given more kudos and would get the offers he wouldn't get if he say took Burnley to Europe.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Sept 28, 2016 9:05:36 GMT
I think more than greed, it must be boredom. What exactly does a national team manager do? He has half a dozen games a year (apart from when there is a tournament in which case England get 3 or 4 more games before going out). He doesn't have to scour the market for transfers. He doesn't have to man manage on a daily basis. 3 million a year to oversee three or four weeks of training and select a team to play Malta?! What do you do with your time? Attend football matches every week, 3-4 hours. Watch videos of other teams 2-3 hours. And.....um...that is it. Either you get a good hobby, do charity work or you try to earn more money with the huge amoount of time left over. While the rest of us slave for hours to try and make ends meet...silly man. What makes it sadder is that he probably will be offered a new management position soon because he has a good CV. A year of cleaning toilets in a fast food restraunt would do him a world of good and help him to appreciate what he has/had. Great heartfelt points there One2 I remember taking my lad to play footy in 2011 and in 2014 at the Hacken Lane football pitches and seeing the transformation from what they had facilities wise back then to what they have now and I remember thinking how impressed I was with what money had been spent to give the young kids the best possible start in football, this after most of my sons home games were wiped out due to horrible winter weather and the poor facilities we had. So when I see and hear of stories in the professional game of silly salaries, bungs, bribery, cash for questions, an extra £400k on top of BSA's £3m per year salary, it makes it very hard to stomach. Pure greed this was and I don't buy all this 'entrapment' 5hit currently being spouted by Allardyce. Helping a mate out? ? What a load of baloney!! You knew exactly what you were doing Sam On a side issue, I drink in the same boozer as Scott McGarvey, I wonder if I can get him tipsy so he can spill the beans🤔
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Post by riochforthereebok on Sept 28, 2016 9:25:19 GMT
I can fully understand why the England manager position has become a poisoned chalice!! It shouldn't be, but it is.. I remember watching George Best on either Parkinson or Wogan and the question put to him "why have you left to play football in America" his response along the lines of "you do something good in this country and the media can't wait to tear a strip off you, whereas in America, they are full of genuine adulation and they can't wait to celebrate your achievements" I think this is why the England job is the impossible job. As well as the fantastic points raised in previous post about having so much time on your hands as England boss, the British press find it hard to help our national game, instead preferring to print the negatives as often as they can, they did it with Revie, Hoddle, Keegan. Erickson, Capello, Hodgson and now BSA, albeit they all got what they deserved in the end for one reason or another. I find it hard to believe that Steve Bruce can be a candidate to succeed Sam as they are pretty much the same manager as well as best friends, I don't want Eddie Howe, Pardew or Hoddle again, so where do we go from here?? Yet more foreign failure after another?? I wouldn't even take Mourinho now!!
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Post by whitesince63 on Sept 28, 2016 11:40:57 GMT
I'm gutted at what's happened to Sam but only in as much as I think he would have been great for England. Sadly his greed and naivety has done for him. I have to say though that I will never buy the Telegraph again. This was a totally shabby and malicious act which has seriously damaged both our game and our reputation as well as robbing England of a potentially bright future under Sam. I'm not excusing Allardyce in any way but it's sickening that our National newspapers set out to create stories rather than report them. By all means sniff out and report corruption but don't physically create it with all the damage it does.
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Post by joanna on Sept 28, 2016 12:55:44 GMT
Some excellent posts here. Great reading.
Here is an interesting defence of BSA that I have cut and pasted for you. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it all, but certainly there was very little in the Telegraph report that actually broke any FA rules. Is being greedy a reason to sack you?
The issue about third-party ownership reveals his opinion about it being easily manipulated and he seems to simply advise these men who are not strangers but people who have cultivated his friendship over time. He doesn't say he has done or will do anything illegal himself. Have his advisers and agent steered him as they should? Perhaps alcohol plays a part in the misjudgement he admits to.
" The allegations made against Allardyce aren’t quite as compelling as they might at first look. The idea that he is ‘for sale’ is slightly misleading. The £400,000 figure quoted on the front page of the Telegraph is for a ‘keynote speech’ he would give in Hong Kong or Singapore, something that would be considered fairly routine for a high-profile football professional. If we arrested everyone who got paid a six-figure fee for a lecture, then a number of our former Prime Ministers would be serving several life sentences and what a tragedy that would be…
The most obviously dodgy part of Allardyce’s actions was his offer to assist these ‘Far East’ businessmen in circumventing rules on third-party ownership. It is unclear whether Allardyce’s claim that ‘you can still get round it’ would hold up, but, if it does, it’s hardly his fault. Allardyce names two redacted third-party owners: they are the people guilty of bending the rules, and the FA too should be held responsible for leaving convenient loopholes open. This is the whole ‘tax avoidance versus evasion’ debate in a nutshell, and Allardyce seems to be well within the avoidance criteria.
On the subject of bungs, his innocence is compelling. ‘You can’t pay a player, you can’t pay a manager, you can’t pay a CEO,’ he tells the reporter, ‘It used to happen 20-odd years ago…you can’t do it now.’
Allardyce has fallen victim merely to a degree of avarice, mixed in with the FA’s own draconian regulations and failure to strangulate loopholes within them."
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Post by OohMac on Sept 28, 2016 14:44:44 GMT
I completely agree Joanna, which I think there is more to come out. I would have thought Sam would look through the footage with his lawyer and rip apart the argument meaning if The FA chose to sack him he would have enough of an argument to make it unfair dismissal.
The Telegraph expose is slightly confused because they have highlighted and lead with several stories that cross the spectrum between financial, personal and footballing reasons. The story, and the only thing that Sam has to answer is "Has he done a deal that involved 3rd party ownership against FA laws?" All the rest are not newsworthy.
His view on Hodgson: They asked him for his opinion on the last manager, he gave his view. He calls him "Woy" which is unprofessional, however its not anything that the red top papers have stated away from. Many a headline used the term "Woy" and never was this cited as being an attack on Roy's speech impediment. Whats more at this point its a private conversation. There is no way that this can be used as gross misconduct.
His attack on Gary Neville. He clearly gave his opinion that a number two should not be seen in public trying to argue with the manager to put on a player. Is he wrong? "I would have told him to sit down and shut the F*** up" Again, is that a story? Was it worth even mentioning no.
So the two cases above are clearly The Telegraph not only showing their evidence they are clearly trying to manipulate the story so its a personal attack on Allardyce. Its almost like they've thought, what we have is a bit part story but if we can throw in X and Y we can build it to be front page stuff.
The "key note" speaker story is not an issue. Having the top job in football opens up opportunities for this sort of thing. Should this sort of work wait until after his reign? Yes, but again its not a story.
The rest of the stuff he states is 'advisory'. You can advise someone how to load a gun, roll a joint for instance. Doesn't mean you're telling them what to do or even whether or not to do it. If in an advisory position Sam says "I've heard that this is the way this person got around it" then surely that's no grounds for dismissal either.
It also shows Sam to be very clear. "You can't pay the player, you can't pay the manager. It is not done anymore" As i've said if there was nothing else they had then i'm amazed Sam and his legal team have allowed The FA to let him go.
I wonder how many Telegraph reporters will be welcomed into stadiums now? For me this was a botched job, not enough news worthy content. No hard evidence. Just a series of non stories, or minor discrepancies thrown together to try and present a case and low and behold the other papers took the bait, ran with it and just ousted the best man, without doubt for that job that no one else wants.
Next England manager is now going to be a guy with limited experience. No real experience of managing big players, premiership players. He was a below par club manager who has an easy ride with the U21's as those that went before him had. Stuart Pearce especially has shown he's not a good manager.
At this stage with England i'd be happy for us to make a stand and boycott the Russia and Qatar tournaments. We may sway other nations to join and really start afresh. I won't be watching that Malta match thats for sure.
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Post by joanna on Sept 28, 2016 15:42:10 GMT
Yes, OoMac.....and he continually stressed in the meeting that he would have to run everything through the FA before taking any sort of action whatsoever.
The Guardian says "it is still not entirely straightforward understanding what the FA has seen in those secretly taped recordings to warrant the guillotine"
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Post by riochforthereebok on Sept 29, 2016 9:50:05 GMT
So why then did BSA just accept his fate rather than fight his corner and say no, I'm not going, mutually agreed ot otherwise, if you think I've done something wrong you'll have to sack me... There's obviously more to it that we know about !!
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