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Post by whitesince63 on Sept 28, 2016 8:22:59 GMT
You would think wouldn't you, that managers would quickly learn what works and what doesn't but sadly they seem to be a breed apart. This is the way I play it whether it works or not, whether I have the players to play it or not. Surely there must come a time when you realise it's not working and you need to try something different. Like I said earlier, Parkinson didn't manage to get Bradford promoted from Div one successively despite having resources at his disposal, playing route 1 football. Surely that should tell him it doesn't work. It's old fashioned, easy to defend against by pulling men back behind the ball. We have no width, never get round the back of defenders and don't get men in the box. Midfield is a joke with no support to the strikers and no shooting from the edge of the box. In short it's abysmal and if it doesn't change we really will be looking at div 2 in a few more weeks.
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Post by OohMac on Sept 28, 2016 9:24:40 GMT
What a fall from grace for winning Manager of the Month not not winning since, hardly scoring since and fans coming away from every match saying "that's the worst we've ever been" only until a few days later when they watch another. On top of that you think lets hear what the manager has to say, an apology maybe. "we were unlucky in that match" "Refereeing was poor" What?
The idea of sacking Parkinson isn't one I want to even consider, we can't do a Leeds, we can't afford too but there is something so wrong with that team selection last night and for the last few weeks. Its pretty clear now our tactics are long ball, throw ins and free kicks. Its not great and its Dougeism at its best but we're not even good at it. Proctor doesn't do the SKD role anywhere like he should. The quality of the crossing is't there.
Can imagine his talks "Spearing and Vela, I want you to stay there and watching the ball fly over your heads. They'll pick it up and run at you, just foul them or something. Can you do that?" "Yes Gaff, I played that role with Medo all the time before"
Is it too soon to say that Chris Taylor is the worst player of all time. No attributes that makes you think he would be a footballer.
I can't really believe that we're making the same mistakes time and time again i.e playing players out of position, still having full backs that can't defend, bringing in a lot of cheap alternatives rather than one or two specialist. Think someone mentioned Vaughan at Bury last night. We need that goalscorer not players who don't know where their best position is.
Oxford on Saturday, they seem to have as poor a time in front of goal as us. Its not a must win. Its a must play well and win. Must score goals, defend well and win. The same as it always should be but isn't.
Best thing that can happen is Proctor and Madine both injured. Take the lump ball option away from him. He'll probably still play it up long to Chris Taylor though.
Anderson, Clough and Ameobi as a three prong attack. Clough dropping off and Vela, Spearing and Derick sitting behind them. Keep the ball and play it in their half. Has to be?
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Post by riochforthereebok on Sept 28, 2016 10:03:50 GMT
Can't see Derik ever getting a game under PP Oom and mentioning Oxford as you have done reminded me that I thought Appleton might have been a good shout before PP but he signed an extended contract. I bet Oldham and Barnsley are thinking what might have been with Lee Johnson doing so well at Bristol City. He could well turn out to be the next Eddie Howe!
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Post by davidm on Sept 28, 2016 10:44:39 GMT
I am so angry that I probably should wait until tomorrow to comment.
Well, itās now the next day and I still havenāt calmed down.
I canāt recall such horrible tactics. Dougie Freedmanās reign was bad ā it was boringly dull but even that wasnāt basic hoofball football.
We are also quite rough which will not get us anywhere. We have a physical advantage over most other sides and, whilst we should take advantage of this, we take it to extremes. For those at the match, did you notice Thorpeās challenge on Henderson in the very first minute. He absolutely clobbered him from behind. How the referee saw no foul, I donāt know. Henderson was effectively out of the game from then on and only lasted another 25 minutes. I accept that Moxey got hit in the second half but we seem to be much too nasty. I know that we need to dominate sides but that was just thuggery and the number of cards we have got already shows this.
I agree with Ooomacron in that the managerās comments are ridiculous. Apparently, we were unlucky last night. Not true ā we were poor. His continual whinging about referees is stupid as we are as much the offenders. Couldnāt Bradford have had a late penalty on Saturday?
The style also doesnāt work because we donāt have the players to carry it out. Proctor works fantastically hard but he is not very good. He cannot hold the ball up. Our style of hoofing it to him meant that he spent an excessive amount of time out on the left with hardly anyone in the middle looking to pick up on his flick-ons.
Our use of the long throw is desperate and, again, not very good.
I agree again with Ooomacron that he has negated Spearing and Velaās positive play. They are simply stoppers and hoof merchants now.
On his signings, whilst I accept that it takes a while to settle in, only Beevers (and maybe Buxton) look up to it and the comment about free-transfer James Vaughan is spot on.
Clough may have had some injury issues but it is criminal to give him only 20 minutes a match. If he is fit for the bench for the past few games, he must start.
I agree above with Whitesince63 ā there is just no support to the strikers. Henry and Taylor stay out wide, Trotter, Spearing and Vela are under orders to stay back. So how are we to score? Apparently the manager thinks we had a lot of chances last night. Well, I didnāt see them. Henry missed a sitter in one of the few times we got the ball into the box and then we hit the post in the last few minutes scramble. Other than that, it was all poor passing, centres hitting the first man (Henry please note that a corner needs to clear the first man) and hopeless hoofing.
The standard of basic passing last night was awful. I could go through most of the team and find examples of rank bad passing. These are simple 10/15 passes which just go astray.
Again I agree Whitesince63. We must āStop this kick and chase and start trying to play footballā.
Desperate days. The manager needs to use the players that we have to the best even if this means changing his tactics (Yes Please!!)
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Post by whitesince63 on Sept 28, 2016 11:28:30 GMT
Unfortunately David I don't think we will see any change from Parkinson. This is obviously his football mantra as his previous years at Bradford proves. That style can of course work if you have the right personnel as several clubs have proved in the past, most notably Wimbledon, and of course ourselves at times under Sam but it is rare and hugely unentertaining. We have neither the players nor the resources to play that way, thus the dross we're being fed just now. You would think that it would register with Parky and if not him then Anderson, who can not afford for gates to drop off. I will go on Saturday but if it's the same garbage again with no attempt to change and improve things then I don't think I'll make the journey again until something happens. I should say that I don't think anyone wants to see another management change but Parky isn't helping himself with his ridiculous comments and excuses or team and style selections. Just wake up Phil and stop moaning, we've had more than enough of that. If it's bad admit it's bad and if it's obviously not working then change it for goodness sake. Nobody will criticise him for trying to make things better but not trying is unforgivable.
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Post by OohMac on Sept 28, 2016 13:01:09 GMT
Is it too naive that we should just concentrate training session after training session to getting and keeping the ball. Passing and then looking for space. Looking for runners. There hasn't been any movement in this team for years now.
The first game of the season, wasn't great, got the win but at least I saw some evidence that we were working on things in training. I saw none of that with Coyle, Freedman, Lennon and now Parkinson.
Some days it doesn't click, you can't get it right, its a bad day at the office. Thats not us. That's 4 on the bounce now and this is when we are playing with confidence. Still top until recently.
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Post by whitesince63 on Sept 28, 2016 17:03:14 GMT
Yes, is the answer to that OM it is very naive to think for a minute that Parkinson will suddenly change his views on how to play. Most managers seem to have a method from which they will not change. The best managers don't do this. They may have a preferred method but will switch it if necessary or vary it to suit the players they have. Sadly we don't have one of those so we'd better get used to the rubbish we're seeing now because Parky's unlikely to change. I sometimes think they see it as a weakness to change their methods instead of really it being an intelligent decision.
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Post by joanna on Sept 28, 2016 18:22:41 GMT
You could hardly expect PP to change tactics after the first 4 games, could you, especially after winning manager of the month.
But now, he should definitely be looking to do what BSA was so good at.......which was to vary the approach. Mind you, Sam had the players to do it!
I'm not sure these players could cope with pass-and-move, for example. In Trotter's case, it would have o be modified to pass-and-rest.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Sept 28, 2016 19:57:32 GMT
I'm beginning to think that them gypo's that were moved on from the overspill land next to the cop shop have put a spell on us!!!! Think we'd be better off with Michael Parkinson in charge than Freedmans 'double' Phil
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Post by greydad on Sept 28, 2016 21:54:55 GMT
Broadband issues have delayed my appraisal of the match and given me time to make a reasoned response...well, it was dire. The highlights were a glaring miss from Henry, a good shot from Spearing, and a great saving tackle from Vela Late on. Others have reported accurately on the individual and collective failings of the players, I can't remember seeing so much vitriol directed at the team for a long time..the response after the 6-0 debacle at Bristol last season was mild compared to that which spewed forth last night. The failure to overcome a team that had never before beaten the Wanderers in a league match was compounded by the manner of the defeat, as our tactics simply played into the opposition's hands again and again. The aforementioned miss by Henry was at least made possible by a rare outbreak of passing down the left, and a decent ball in to the box...perhaps that part of the match dvd should be played to the players and coaching staff on a loop between now and Saturday. There surely must be potential within the squad to change things for the better...a great start was achieved by the team in August, and maintained the positive start despite key injuries, at least in terms of results, but the performances since Charlton have deteriorated match on match. I'm not sure how but things must improve on Saturday..September has seen 2 goals scored in 5 games with little likelihood of any improvement unless a change of mind-set is effected regards tactics.
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Post by whitesince63 on Sept 29, 2016 6:38:00 GMT
You could hardly expect PP to change tactics after the first 4 games, could you, especially after winning manager of the month. But now, he should definitely be looking to do what BSA was so good at.......which was to vary the approach. Mind you, Sam had the players to do it! I'm not sure these players could cope with pass-and-move, for example. In Trotter's case, it would have o be modified to pass-and-rest. Yes Joanna, BSA did have the players to do it but that was in the PL. we are now in the third tier and I maintain we still have the players to do it at this level. It's not rocket science to get players to pass and move, take on defenders and create opportunities. Other teams with far less resources are doing it and so should we.
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Post by OohMac on Sept 29, 2016 7:26:04 GMT
And Big Sam didn't start with Anelka andHierro. Firstly he sorted the back out with a Dads Army back four of experience. Full backs like Whitlow who could defend, Colin Hendry, Warhurst remember him brining in the likes of Newsome and of course Gudni. He also got the best of the youth team Hunt and Nolan and threw them in and with what little he had in terms of budget he spent on Ricketts a proper scorer.
I can't ever remember that team being too direct. It wasn't as good a team as Blackburn with Dunn and Duff and co, and Fulham played some great football to win that league. We were a fair way behind those teams but soon levelled that out.
We can't replace Gudni, the kids coming though may not be Nolan class or Hunt(for that first few seasons) and you can't always pick up a Ricketts on the cheap.
But we have a former England international centre back, a former Liverpool midfielder Ā£2M, premiership experience with Ameobi.
Throughout Dougies reign I believed that he was trying to make this job look tougher than it is, when Lennon took over thought that he proved that point by playing attacking stuff and winning games. He tailed off. And we've gone full circle back to Dougie.2 PP has got a strong centre back pairing which can be the foundation. Left back must be on the wish list, weren't Wolves interested in Moxey? Hard to believe.
As you say he won't change it, think the beauty of Allardyce is that he would change it. He would change week in, week out. He would try Gardner and Pederson even in a left back spot, would try and go 5 at the back, stick Kevin Davies on the right wing, have Nolan as a 10. If there was something that wasn't working he would address it and usually would find a fix for it. The last three manager s in particular have seemed to think they cannot change their mind, shows weakness, that they'll have to admit they got it wrong. Get over yourselves. In all cases you've won nothing, your small fish, you're still learning, make the changes when you see something isn't right and if PP can't see that something isn't right after these 10 games plus the cup embarrassments then he's no future here or like DF anywhere else in football management.
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