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Post by realtrottersforever on Mar 11, 2016 15:16:55 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35733019interesting stat in the BBC match preview. "The Trotters are on their longest run without a clean sheet in the league (12 games) since a run of 14 in September 2013." i looked into this previous run. it was under DF. 5 games at the end of the 2012/13 season ( when we were having our promotion push ) plus the first 9 games of the 2013/14 season. unsurprisingly Zat Knight would have been at the heart of the defence at this time !! www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/championship/tablea look at the table shows Preston have scored FEWER goals than us but are in 10th place. they have 15 clean sheets as do all the top 3 (15+ anyway as some have more ) can someone please tell NL this they aren't moaning about not having a 20 goal a season striker. Big Sams PL success wasn't built on having 15-20 goal a season strikers. NL doesn't even mention clean sheets. at Celtic no doubt you just aim to win 4-2..you still win as you have better players, doesn't matter if you ship 1 or 2, you still score 3 or 4 yourselves. keep blaming individual errors is really wearing thin. you set up as a defence to cover each other, if one guy makes an error, there's a 2nd guy ready and waiting to back him up
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Post by andyl on Mar 11, 2016 17:16:30 GMT
Whilst I do agree with general sentiment of this, rtf, as a criticism of the whole season I do believe that these last three or four games since we added a midfielder and discarded a winger, especially when preserving two upfront we have been better defensively. And since we have added Derik for Dervite a lot better not least because we tend to keep the ball and pass it out of defence. I think we have more or less stifled the counter attacks that were so damaging to our season.
In terms of goals against we have drawn two of these recent games because of goalkeeping errors and we have also conceded of ' wonder goals' out of the blue. I think recent games have been more entertaining, solider defensively and we have created more chances than for a while In terms of goals for we have been abysmal but I think that if we had played these last four games at the start of the season we might have thought that they were OK, disppointing but not indicative of a team likely to be relegated a dozen or more points adrift?
In this I am not excusing Neil Lennon. In my opinion he has proved to be tactically weak. And I have not agreed with many of his player judgments-and this acknowledging that he should know his players better than a fan like me could hope to so perhaps my opinion is academic and fit only for a forum or bar. But against those who argue his case and some still do my response is results, results, results..and I don't think the off field shambles is to blame for all. I think we have made an inordinate number of mistakes and lacked a psychological or winning compettitve edge. Re this Joanna's repeated point is very fair. Psychological support professionals can be very useful. That said traditionally in football we have looked to managers to provide this whether by example,knowledge, fear or love?
I wrote some time ago - before Christmas that we would not succeed if he kept picking Dervite, Danns and Feeney. 2 of the three obstacles have seemingly been removed unless Danns gets a recall. But Feeney goes on , unsubbable, in many ways admirable, definitely doing some positive things( although I'm not convinced of the wisdom of letting him pick his own position-maybe he insisted). But it may come as no surprise that player of the season or not I predict that if Neil would just drop Feeney, i.e not start him and maybe bring him on at 75 mins if needs be, we would have our best chance of winning. Why is that? Well I think it's incredibly wasteful swinging balls out to Feeney who on a good day charges upfield, taunts an opponent and fires in a cross and there have been days where he has fired in twenty or more crosses. And this is because he doesn't look up and pass the ball or even aim it he jsut leathers it anywhere-some to the keeper, some out of play, ahead of forwards or behind them and before midfielders can catch up. So we lose possession. And if it all looks lively surely the season has proved that our forwards such as they are cannot get on to the end of his crosses meaniungfully. If he hits a delightful looped one, and he sometimes does, Clough on Tue and Madine lots of times routinely get under them.
So let's imagine we play Silva first and then we have a packed midfield with some right flank movement amongst them and an emphasis on interpassing and trying to find our men in positions from which they can use the ball. In Clough's case this tends to be deeper than a conventional forward, in Madine's aerially or with back to goal. And lets imagine we hold the ball up to allow the likes of Davies, Pratley and Trotter to run ahead beyond or alongside Madine and Clough. I think the landscape would look better for takeable chances?
In general as everyone I like wingers and if we had a measured, thoughtful Michael Johansen type of player it could work well always swinging it to the flanks. But in Feeney's case however well he plays very little comes from it. And in saying this I recognise that he probably assists more goals than others but he would wouldn't he considering how much he sees of the ball. Joanna has argued that I underrate his skill. I disagree with her but in so doing in a sense agree that I do not rate his skill. I think that most of the time he frustrates and gets in the way of progress never more so than when he plays well. I think he could be a really good impact sub. I predict that if Neil omits him we will win!
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Post by riochforthereebok on Mar 11, 2016 18:54:53 GMT
1-1
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2016 19:13:54 GMT
3-0 (dreamin)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2016 8:52:43 GMT
I really do want to be positive after the take over and think yes at long last now lets push on and win some games but sadly we live in the real world and I just can't see were we are going to get four wins from just to get out the bottom three. It has taken to long to get over the line and I can't see us suddenly going to start winning that said I do hope we win today. I am already starting to plan for live in the first division I wonder how many will be at the Reebok next season?
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Post by one2many on Mar 12, 2016 13:52:26 GMT
We will win 2-0.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Mar 12, 2016 16:22:14 GMT
In fearing the score could end up ONE2, one2
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2016 17:08:49 GMT
I am so glad I don't give a **** Preston have not scored against us since 1992 now they beat us 2-1 with ease we are going down and there is nothing or nobody that can stop us so we might as well get use to it. We can't afford to sack N.L. so we just have to get on with it but according to our leader we are not a team at the bottom of the league god he talks some shit.
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Post by andyl on Mar 12, 2016 17:36:58 GMT
A game typical of our season.A reasonable first half and a well held lead followed by a managerially driven collapse. It was I think obvious that without Spearing we were light in midfield. Trotter for those in his camp had a good game throughout and scored a fine goal. But managerial decisions left him on his own. I'm not sure how his detractors will argue that he wasn't our man of that match?I really felt one of Danns or Vela had to come on before they scored.As in so many games Neil failed to sense it and we were level. And it was screamingly obvious that Madine Clough and Feeney were the men to hook. But no they scored and then he stupidly removed Pratley who even if on a booking had been our fittest and liveliest defensive midfield in terms of giving chase. Silva did OK but midfield was overrun. It was a crass misreading of the developing game and myopic in my opinion in terms of not subbing Madine and Feeney who were never in the game today. Clough might always score . I get that and he had a few chances but saying that the Preston defence had taken care of his threat with ease.
Their first goal came after Clough and then Feeney lost possession carelessly in two previous phases. The second came when Wilson attempting to play midfield and full back simultaneously was left for dead and was quickly himself subbed destined no doubt to join Vela in this month's naughty corner
Preston were solid. It was a game to win. Yet again we came within sight and yet again the manager pulled out the rug from under the team's feet. It's just as well Neil has already relegated us as strangely it didn't much seem to matter. No doubt Neil will blame the referee and claim we should have had a penalty, replays may agree? But Mark D certainly dived. Whether contacted or not. We had one late chance but Silv took it off Yrotter's feet and blazed over We are very rocky, Rachubka was an accident in waiting-just not up to it
Rachubka 2 Wilson 4 Derik 6 Holding 6 Moxey 6 Feeney 2 Davies 5 Trotter 8 Madine 1 Clough 3 Pratley 5
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Post by riochforthereebok on Mar 12, 2016 18:37:40 GMT
I know it's a bit late now, but those who state that we can't afford to sack Lennon, why don't we just pay him but stand him down?? Having no manager iin charge Is better than having this prick! Looking like DF's days are over at Forest!!
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Post by davidm on Mar 12, 2016 18:52:27 GMT
What an absolute shambles we are.
We cannot play Spearing because we will owe Liverpool additional money. So that’s the end of Spearing presumably.
We play a very average but organised Preston and fail yet again.
Tactically, we are so naïve. Who spends all week coaching them to pass 5 yards sideways or backwards for most of the match? There were hardly any positive forward moves
Neil Lennon complains about the ref, who wasn’t good, but he was better than the majority of our weak players/management.
First half was OK after the first 20 seconds when we should have been one down and Trotter then took his goal well. Second half, we just stood off and let Preston have possession which meant that our weak defence would concede, as we always do. How many games since a clean sheet?
Substitutions were again too late and what was the point of replacing Wilson with an attacker but still stick to 4 at the back. It meant that Feeney played right back for the final minutes. He is a worse defender than Wilson so what did it achieve?
We are in a position where we need to win practically every match and we hardly reach the opponents penalty area because we just fiddle about in midfield around the halfway line. We’ll never score from the halfway line.
Totally gutless, naïve tactics, awful management. We are doomed.
Marks :-
Rachubka - 5 I need to see the goals again as I couldn’t understand how either got in. Flapped at a couple of high balls in first half.
Wilson - 5 Didn’t get forward enough for me.
Moxey - 5 Seemed at fault for second goal and, as with Wilson, didn’t get forward enough.
Holding - 6 Steady again. Not sure though where he was for their goals.
Derik - 6 Would have been an 8 in the first half but second half we collapsed defensively.
Feeney - 3 Just 2 decent crosses/passes from him today which Clough and Madine couldn’t convert. Other than that he was outfought and gave the ball away to start the move for their goal.
Clough - 4 He is struggling badly. Another poor header when Feeney set him up and a shot over in the second half when he should have done better.
Trotter - 6 Best of a very poor midfield. At least he drove forward a few times but his passing deteriorated as the match went on.
Davies - 2 Absolutely terrible. Involved in the move for Trotter’s goal and a run in the second half when he was brought down. Other than that just numerous 5-yards sideway passes. Not worth his place in this team.
Pratley - 2 Another dreadful performance. Pratley seems to think that all football is about is knocking the opponents over. Created nothing at all. Should be out of the team.
Madine - 3 Just got outmuscled by the Preston centre half who bossed him all day. A complete waste.
Wellington - 3 Nothing! Came on, fell over, created nothing.
Manager - 2 Useless tactics. Could not respond when Grayson changed the shape of their side at half time. Blames everyone but himself. Picks the same useless players who have proved all season that they are not up to it. Too late substitutions and putting Feeney at right back is just plain crackers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2016 18:56:10 GMT
Will we still have to pay him even though he is not doing the job he is paid to do ie keeping us up and to win more games than the bottom 3 if we don't do or jobs at work we get sacked and not paid? I really don't want to start getting angry and calling people names but do you know who I feel sorry for the fans that pay there money and hope the team set up by N.L. will perform and if we are going down at least fight while doing so. Show some balls like Bristol City, MK Dons, and Rotherham for god sake.
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Post by OohMac on Mar 12, 2016 19:08:32 GMT
Has the Clough Madine combo ever looked like a winner? I was excited about this partnership at the start but after a few games soon realised it doesn't work.
More annoying is that I threw Neil Warnock's name in the hat around November time. I thought I would get shot down but most we're open to it. 3-0 down with 10 minutes to go and he gets a point. He would have seen our strengths and weaknesses after a weeks training and played the right players in the right positions.
Neil lennons half time team talk must have again consisted of a Horlicks and a Sigur Ros CD.
Marc Iles first question should be "Is this purely about the money now for you Neil? Is that what you're waiting for?" because we're all but down and we need more wins to survive than we've had all season. Results are getting worse more than anything. That would have been a 1-1 in October.
If he argues about mathematics and still fighting I would simply say "I can't print that again Neil. I've ran with it for the last 6 months and I need more. I can't have your players coming out week in week out saying that the lads are hurting but they can turn it around, because I have to write reports people will read and no one out there is buying this crap anymore.
If this is not the job you signed up for then walk away? I would urge Neil to go to Dean and Co with his resignation in his hand and say its there is you want it. I want to stay and turn it around but if you think i'm not the man then there you go. Good luck.
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Post by OohMac on Mar 13, 2016 6:31:58 GMT
BN says Feeney was the "Star Man"?
Thoughts on that please and the absolute love in this guy gets from BN and Mr Lennon.
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Post by andyl on Mar 13, 2016 6:55:12 GMT
BN says Feeney was the "Star Man"?
Thoughts on that please and the absolute love in this guy gets from BN and Mr Lennon.
Should have been subbed. One and a half good contributions. Lost possession horribly to start the sequence for an opposition goal. Lost count of the number of times he either lost concentration or just waited for passes to reach him that were intercepted. Completely inconsequential and nearly as bad as Madine whom I described to a friend as strolling about like a newly neutered pussycat rather than the embattled warrior he was dressed as.
The pair together were dreadful. I wrote before the game that dropping Feeney would help us win. Everything I said then I stick to even if written more in desperation than hope or expectation.
When I think how often Dougie left Chungy out and never let him move to midfield and how Neil picks Feeney unrelentingly and gives him a free pass. -we have suffered some appalling management
No Trotter was our best. player and held the fort in midfield single handedly - he did lots of good passes and kept getting them back from Davies when they should have gone forward but Feeney was everywhere and nowhere - very difficult to pass to for either of them
Why do Neil and the BN view Feeney through moistened eyes and loving gaze? In Neil's case for the same reason he thinks we play well,blames referees delays subs, picked Dervite over the Derik all season and is continuously bested tactically by his opposite number - two good examples of technical area management to observe this week had he left the bench more often. And for the same reason we are ten points adrift and heading to be relegated in March!!!
Feeney is a good pro,runs tirelessly ,will do anything asked of him and can occasionally cross well. He's a terrible deadball kicker. (For example corner in first half added time and set piece chance for 2-0 .
Hey I like Feeney. What's not to like? Could he get a starting berth in a national conference side? Not on the evidence of Eastleigh for me. But he could be a great impact sub.
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