|
Post by riochforthereebok on Mar 9, 2016 11:10:31 GMT
Apols Last game away to Fulham..... Another loss So nowts changed from above
|
|
|
Post by realtrottersforever on Apr 4, 2016 12:41:33 GMT
lionofviennasuite.sbnation.com/2016/4/4/11353606/the-records-we-could-beat-soongood article on LOV about the (negative ) records we could soon beat. they've slipped up on one stat though. www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/13620390.MATCHDAY_LIVE__Bolton_Wanderers_1_Nottingham_Forest_1/as the 1.19 update on this thread states..we already equalled the "5 games without scoring record" this season. I've got a feeling we beat it in terms of minutes as that Dobbie goal came really late. in my first post on this thread I tipped approx 35 points for this season. now we're down at 0.67 ppg. multiply up by 46 games and you get 30.82 points. we're edging down ever closer to Blackpools total. it's important because the difference between Wigan's total of 40'ish and Blackpool of 26 leads into how you go on in League 1. Blackpool are struggling to keep their heads above water, and Wigan are top.
|
|
|
Post by one2many on Apr 4, 2016 13:31:53 GMT
Sad to say, i think it more likely that we suffer another relegation next season rather than fight for promotion.
|
|
|
Post by Trotter on Apr 4, 2016 18:06:59 GMT
I remember that season well, Andy.
We really shouldn't have gone down.
We needed to beat Chelsea of all teams in our final home game to guarantee safety. Clive Walker scored a wonder goal and we lost 1-0. For our younger members, if we had won that game, Chelsea would have been relegated to division 3. A crowd of only 8,687 for that match.Mind you when we played them at Stamford Bridge earlier in the season, the attendance was 6,903 - oh the mighty Chelsea eh!
We still had a chance for our last match was at Charlton and it was either us or them for relegation. We had to win as a draw would send us down. Remarkably we took the lead through the infamous Ian Moores (23 games, 3 goals) so salvation seemed to be there only for Mike Doyle to make a horrendous mistake to let Charlton equalise after which we just collapsed to a 4-1 defeat. Sad times.
One point to make was even though we finished bottom, we did not have the horrendous record that we have this season. Blimey if I did not feel bad enough regarding this season I do now having to relive your knowledgable post, regarding Mike Doyle I do remember one home game were Bolton fans gave him abuse when he went to take a throw-in, needless to say he never took another throw-in after that.
|
|
|
Post by andyl on Apr 7, 2016 13:58:45 GMT
As we near the predicted end of this dire season I thought I would add to my first post on this thread albeit without full historical perspective. It's great to see some of rtf's statistics above and Trotter's memory. With mtid's return from exile I hope even more statistics will be added in due course. I lack the patience , alas, to research these things but for occasional enquiries. In general I find that there are two or more sides to most questions and a mass of opinions and perspectives. And in turn these are informed variously by the amount of information or experience and sometimes the attitudes we each have. Football is such an emotional arena and so conflicted with in my case , community or history that it's very difficult to be objective. I do try for example to praise this or that player or manager if on any given day I think they have done well and in turn to criticise them on the same basis but over time attitude hardens and it becomes difficult to be sure if an opinion is valid or just a reinforcement of things seen or thought previously. But here we go with a few thoughts
Phil Gartside and Eddie Davies- to ring out and criticise the old and celebrate the new is a natural reaction. We were dragged through a mire of secretive uncertainty until recently and hauled through the courts with a seeming threat of administration or liquidation. Trevor Birch came in and made a few statements and a few deals were done some at the last minute with we know not whom and it all dragged on beyond the point of transfer or loan windows or the tipping point for relegation. Staff weren't paid. An awful mess!The standard narrative emerging is that this came as a result of the club overreaching itself, getting involved in silly contracts and generally mismanaging the business. This may be true. It led to public criticisms of Eddie D and Phil G on fora and not particularly veiled criticisms in the BN-still I think a major media outlet in the town?
But the most obvious event that occurred is the illness and death of a sitting chairman, one under whose leadership whatever went on in the boardroom or with media had seen since the late 90s as well as recent bad times also an unparalleled period of growth and success. Whatever history is now writing just about every club has been taking gambles and risks to reach the ever increasing El Dorado that is perceived to be the Premier League. Several old clubs have been brought to their knees and others are on the brink? Blackburn, Fulham, Villa. I wrote on the BN Forum several years ago that sooner or later a big club would fold- the risks are still there. It could even be Man Utd?!So the risks PG was taking with Eddie D's money were not particluar unusual. They echoed risks at Bradford City and by Peter Risdale at Leeds.Some owners, chairman and directors have fled the coop of difficulty eg Gold and Sullivan plus Karren Brady to safer havens, Majedski to Leicester adn on, Bates to Leeds and out. At risk of inviting the wrath of all here I would argue that we simply cannot know what Phil Gartside would have achieved or not had he lived. He might have found a new investor and we might never have noticed the problems at least to the extent we have seen since. His illness and death are an obvious turning point in our fortunes? And everything went pear shaped from the point of his departure.
2. Neil Lennon. There are some who will and do argue that recent results prove just how well Neil was holding things together and how much credit he deserves for keeping us more or less competitive until January/February. Others may say that he was moody, made capricious selections, put too much emphasis on wingplay,delayed subs far too long had favourites etc.etc.He was seriously undermined by the Mirror expose on his private life. Some may say, indeed the club said that his private life had nothing to do with his professional life, that they had determined all via a quick internal enquiry. But can anyone entirely escape chaos or misfortune in their personal lives whilst doing their jobs? Time will tell what his next job is but before we took him on there were few immmediate takers so if he was a good manager we were lucky to get him. Of course he followed Dougie F, Owen C and Gary M, and his charm and intelligence even intelligibility stood him in good stead and we'll always have Liverpool. I'm not sure we have a consensus on his reign yet. Most of us probably had mixed feelings on departure?And a lot of sympathy at the way his hands were tied? But as one who has watched quite a lot of games this year which have seen us competitive in most but on the wrong side of defeats and individual errors in many can I really argue that Neil and his background team do not bear some responsibility for this relegation. I presume Deano thought so?
3. And then we have our highly paid players. How good are they? And if not why not? Is it fitness, teamwork, tactics, luck, referees that have dragged them down or the general uncertainty of the finanacial context. Let's take a look at players by role
a) Keepers--Amos, so bright last year until Wigan away and so poor this until perhaps Reading at home and even then. He has a major problem with long shots especially to his right. Has he been carrying injury, has he lost confidence or is he just lacking in ability?. He's not that old . He may improve but we sorely needed a competitive alternative. We all had our views on Bogdan and Lonergan last year but at least we had two fairly experienced keepers. Neil clearly fell out with Lonergan after Forest last year but Rachubka- well he just isn't good enough, is he?
b) Defenders- despite buying two right backs we preferred centre halves and Vela for much of the season. Wheater did well for a while but got injured, Dervite has had a few games but is slow and cumbersome, Moxey has been awful for weeks after a bright start, Casado was slow but impressed going forward and at set pieces but was hot headed and fell out with Neil presumably. We just haven't had a solid defence. Derik has looked OK but is learning and makes positional errors. Holding is intelligent and skilful but lacks strength and is too easily beaten aerially and on the turn by direct and strong forwards. In sum we just haven't been able to defend and our defenders haven't been good enough?
c) Midfield - we have shown very little creatively in midfield. Looking back Mark Davies when captain kept the ball well if negatively but he has done nothing since January save for one mshit shot v Roterham, Pratley has stumbled about when fit and looked increasingly like Bambi on Ice, Vela has been a yard too slow and even more unfit. Trotter offered a few good games when returned from Forest and there was more to get from him but he has tailed off in his last couple of appearances. Danns had faded to the point of being just a bit part player with one good shot all season
d) wingers- Feeney and Silva have both offered momentum and the odd good goal but have been caught in possession or giving the ball away way too often
e) Forwards- Clough has had two good games away at Charlton and that lovely home goal performance v Fulham including probably the goal of the season. Madine has scored a couple of good goals and missed a lot more but has appeared disinterested, even disruptive and disrespectful. Heskey has often been quite effective when introduced most recently at Wolves and he was good at Charlton for most of the game but he is past his due date. Would that we could have kept Eidur for his moments of class. What else Woolery- some brightness. Dobbie- a goal and a free kick. A couple of moments of class from Ameobi who would have palyed for us for free!!!
Young players Woolery, Clough , Vela, Maher, Twardzik Derik, Holding, Finney, Samizadeh,Clayton, Walker all have promise as do the absent Threlkeld , White and Wilkinson but none has played any significant role in the fight if that's what it was against relegation. To be successful each and everyone of them has somehow to bulk up, get stronger, avoid injury and learn their craft. It takes time. Jon Walters was a similar youngster with us and doing all those things became in his mid to late twenties a very good top level footballer perhaps playing above the level of his innate ability. And Kevin Nolan has been the model of homegrown players. Might he have rejoined as manager if the takeover had happened in December? Who of the current crop of young players has the personal commitment to do likewise? And have we the staff to develop them and to work on their skills. If three or four can come through we may be able to succeed and to sell them on and restore the club's fortunes. But to me they all look a long way short of championship readiness at this point and maybe even Div One in time for next season--- even Holding when played at centre half and who has Bale like skills attacking
Could we find a player of the season?. A few weeks ago I might have argued for Holding but the only one player who has given his all for the whole season despite having frustrated both me and rtf ( see separate thread) for the whole of this season and last may have to be Feeney despite his obvious failings. The last couple of games if anything have made a case for his loss being critical. I don't think he's good enough to deserve a starting or finishing berth in the Championship or even Div One but he has given his all and been consistent in every game played. I don't think anyone else has?
Overall my reflection would be that the combination of context, manager and players gave us very little chance of avoding the drop but of all of these elements I think we have to look no further than the playing staff to see why we have had such a disappointing season. Could say Neil Warnock have done better as at Rotherham. I'm not convinced. We lack physicality and stature throughout the team.
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Apr 7, 2016 16:47:06 GMT
Good outline Andy. I don't think any of us can quite understand just how bad we've been this year. We certainly may not have the strongest squad in the Championship but neither do we have the worst. The fact that so many players have underperformed so often is staggering really and that Lennon was not able to change things just as surprising. However you look at it this year has been a huge disappointment to everyone including the loss of PG, however critical you would be of him. We can only hope that there is a seed change next year, including in our luck. I'm not in any way trying to blame everything on bad luck but since Holden's catastrophic loss we've suffered more than our fair share of problems with key players at critical times. Anyway, it looks like our fate will be assured on Saturday so maybe from then on detailed preparations can be made for next year.
|
|
|
Post by realtrottersforever on Apr 8, 2016 12:57:27 GMT
"It's great to see some of rtf's statistics above"
One thing for sure is we'll be getting less next season, and minimal tv coverage as if it wasn't low enough already. instead of the one hour programme for the Championship..we're down to half hour for League 1 & 2 combined. and sites like whoscored.com which has most of the good stats & team formation info don't even cover League 1 in any meaningful way..i.e apart from the most basic scores and scorer type info. basic stuff likes possession and shots on target should still be available from the BBC site I think. anybody know if any League 1 games get televised live ? with us being a reasonably big fish in a small pond we might get some coverage that way, but more so if we're up near the top of the table, which at the moment, seems unlikely.
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Apr 8, 2016 13:38:55 GMT
Its been a season horribillis thats for sure. Good write up AndyL, the only thing I'd say is that to suggest Gartside may "turn it around" is like saying the captain of the Titanic might have been able to steady the ship if everyone just stopped shouting and let him get on with it. The contracts he put players on, the deals he did, even when we were selling we sold star players on the cheap. It turned out to be a shambles on his watch.
As for the players, picking a player of the season is a real tough ask. I honestly can't see what people saw in Feeney. He had one or two decent games(again mainly when the window was open) but on the whole he was woeful. I've never seen some erratic crossing and with the chances he had he should have been on double figures.
Selling Ream was understandable but in hindsight we were lacking in both centre and at left back and he could have done a job at either. Moxey did show some decent form when Casado was breathing down his neck and as soon as he left Moxey went backwards. His performances have been simply awful.
Vela, Trotter, Spearing and Danns are never played consistently enough to really see which the best ones are and Mark Davies has had his best season in terms of fitness and his worst in terms of performance. Maybe the myth of Davies has been proven to be nonsense.
Clough has been very hit and miss as you may expect for a lad of his age just finding his feet.
The main talking point will be Lennon himself. Had he have walked in the summer he would have been very fondly remembered and probably be managing at Villa or Newcastle now. He stayed too long and should have had left and said "I was told if i kept this club up that there would be money to spend to push on, we've let 11 players go and I can't bring anyone in. I've been misinformed and i'm off!" I have sympathy for Neil for that but when you have little money don't waste it. We really could have had 3 players instead of 7. In the end Neil was still at it, trying to sign sub par wingers before the board pulled the plug on the deal. If we had have given him free range we would have had a squad of 42 players luxury wingers and an abundance of not good enough full backs. Twardzik! Say no more.
Amos, Vela and Holding are typical of what we've had at Bolton recently. Great start and whether its man management, training(coaching) or just effort but they all just seem to go backwards. Maybe we could put Iniesta in the team and he'd struggle to find a pass.
High point of the season; not many to chose from but taking 4 points from Wolves and Blackburn and the Clough goal. Low so many to choose from but I was most disappointed with us going out of the FA Cup to Leeds. A winnable game against a struggling club and we may have been in the next hat with money up for grabs for a big tie (People may argue that i'm talking rubbish, how can going out of the cup be the low point when we're rock bottom and shipping 6 at fellow strugglers Bristol City. Well you have a point)
|
|
|
Post by spanishjonny on Apr 8, 2016 20:24:37 GMT
The reason's we are bottom of the league are many, but if we all agree this squad is better than our current position we have to look at how the players were used
Dougie would have got us relegated but he was sacked, Lennon came in and saved us, but he should have been sacked at Christmas and would have been if the chairman had been fully fit and the club could have afforded to pay him off and recruit a new man, poss Warnock, who has saved a club and squad comparable to us, Rotherham. Not having a striker, a consistent goalkeeper, a left back, a right back, a midfield, yes they played their part but the failure to change manager at the right time is IMO our biggest mistake. In saying that if a new manager had saved us from relegation this season the meltdown would have come next season, it was a perfect storm ,
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Apr 9, 2016 10:16:50 GMT
I'm really not sure the squad is better, just better known maybe. I couldn't name a Rotherham player bar Matt Derbyshire but these unknowns must have more talent than Mark Davies, Emile Heskey, etc. One day soon opponents will look at our team sheet and wonder who these guys are and what happened to the club that one had Fernando Hierro. I look forward to that day, we may surprise a few.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 16:02:22 GMT
has come to an end (well the bit that matters) onward and upward (hopefully) .
|
|
|
Post by joanna on Apr 9, 2016 16:24:16 GMT
"Really interesting comment from Tony Kelly during half time on Wanderers Player - 'I've enjoyed every year at Wanderers except the Dougie Freeman time, all that talk from him about reinventing our Academy was utter nonsense, with players wanting to leave. The Academy players were already coming through.''
(Taken from a fan's contribution to BN live match commentary on the internet)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 17:41:53 GMT
I will still be a Wanderer next season how many of the players can say that or should we say do we want ?
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Apr 10, 2016 23:24:03 GMT
Someone on the BN website comments section mentioned how Marc Iles could copy and paste sentences to save typing and it's true. He really must use the same words all season. Assume he had a word document set up with the pre written sentences to go along with "wifi playing up here, hope to update you shortly"
For Amos: "beaten by long range effort" Wheater "gets outpaced and unable to get back to stop the striker scoring" Moxey "day to forget. No support but couldn't handle the winger Derick "never looked comfortable playing in that position" Vela, Trotter, Mark Davies "Anonymous today" Feeney "not happened for him today, plenty of the ball but crossing poor" Dobbie "comes on with 2 minutes left to play" Madine "chance missed" Pratley "has done all the running but poor quality"
Oh and I almost forgot "goal came from a mistake by Dorian Dervite"
|
|
|
Post by megsontilidie on Apr 19, 2016 15:08:46 GMT
a round up of the various records that might go this season.
(current season in brackets ) Fewest home wins in a season: 4, 2011–12. (4)
Fewest away wins in a season: 0, 1949–50, 1979–80. (0)
Fewest wins in a season: 5, 1979–80. (4)
Most home draws in a season: 11, 1979–80. (10)
Most home goals conceded in a season: 39, 2011–12. (26)
Most away losses in a season: 18, 1984–85. (17)
Most away goals conceded in a season: 59, 1932–33. (52)
Most draws in a season: 17, 1991–92. (14)
Most losses in a season: 25, 1970–71, 1995–96. (24)
Most goals conceded in a season: 92, 1932–33. (78)
|
|