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Post by one2many on Apr 17, 2015 9:14:25 GMT
They are sold out and highly motivated. We are apathetic and desperate for the season to end. Home win, 3-1.
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Brentford
Apr 17, 2015 21:26:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by riochforthereebok on Apr 17, 2015 21:26:18 GMT
Play with confidence now we're safe AND spoil their play off hopes, I'll go for 1-2 to the Shamrock Wanderers
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 8:17:47 GMT
Should be a good game just hope we are up for it but they will be up for it more 2-1 for the bees
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 11:13:02 GMT
Well there 's good news and bad news , the good news is danns has been left out of the squad for being a bad boy , the bad is Bannan has suffered the same fate for the same reason ,pillocks both
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Post by OohMac on Apr 18, 2015 14:01:58 GMT
Senior players, shambolic really. Danns is on thin Ice for me. He cost us the FA Cup tie through silly challenges, decided to play for an unknown International team at this age meaning world round trips for friendlies, his form has been shocking since Pratley limped off and now this.
Like with Spearing's Ibiza Shots there's definitely an ill discipline attitude with this current squad. They have this demeanor of superstars when in reality they're struggling Championship players. I don't know the details of this but it must have been a fairly idiotic act to get to this stage. 3 games left this season then they have all summer to do as they like. Bannan only this week said how he needed these games to prove his worth.
Back to the game, i don't like the look of the side. Its unbalance and doesn't look like it will work. Could ship another 4 today. 4-1. No Vela. Not sure if he's injured. No Rochina and Feeney is in with Coke and Ream. In what must be the weakest midfield we've fielded in somhe bece time. Mark Davies on the bench, can't blame him for not risking him but lets hope he gets on.
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Post by andyl on Apr 18, 2015 16:13:00 GMT
Safe!Phew!
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Post by OohMac on Apr 19, 2015 11:52:36 GMT
Good result and good to see Mark Davies back on the score sheet. To come back twice, and with the exclusion of Danns and Bannan, showed fighting character. Negatives are that this team cannot defend, which is off because Lennon had the defensive work nailed on and since the second Liverpool game the wheels have come off.
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Post by megsontilidie on Apr 20, 2015 12:51:53 GMT
blimey, only 6 replies on this match thread so far. everyone is end of season mode as much as me ( with me only checking in Mon aft to see the views !) . was not impressed with the line up..absolutely no midfield whatsoever..but now we know the reasons why. it all looked a bit flaky with 2 wingers. in the end we seemed to do ok with our more direct approach as NL explained in the BN this morn. only 35% possession. credit to Mavies for pressing the 2 players + keeper for his goal..deserved his luck. his only other goal of the season was versus Brentford too. another neat finish from Le Fondre. Bogdan really doing well in a quiet unspectacular way. 6 saves in this game..5 in the last one, 6 in the Norwich game...i was just checking back and neither Amos or Lonners have had a run of 3 consec games where they make a minimum 5 saves per game. the overall season stats for keepers are Lonners 44 conceded & 98 saves ( in lge )... Bogdan 11 conceded & 32 saves & Amos 8 conceded & 26 saves. Andy will probably agree and Joanna will no doubt disagree, but on average , for every 1 goal conceded Lonners makes 2 saves, whereas Amos and Bogdan make 3 saves. Bogdan had significantly better stats than Lonners even last season too. for those who are still sceptical , i can only say try noting the figures down in future yourself ,as some people will only ever believe it when they see it in their own handwriting / or own workings into a spreadsheet. it's like the pepsi taste challenge ( old reference there !) don't judge the label...judge it blind .".keeper A " makes more saves over the long run that keeper B...keeper A must be doing something right. all other factors like quality opposition attack, our poor defence, errors, refs mistakes, easy saves, hard saves even out over the long run.
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Post by andyl on Apr 20, 2015 14:18:41 GMT
In this case I think the statistics quoted just confirm what I've observed . Nothing to disagree with?
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Post by whitesince63 on Apr 20, 2015 22:36:11 GMT
I don't think we need statistics to know Boggers is better than Lonnergan, just the evidence of your own eyes and a look at their respective ages. Bogdan is clearly a better option for the future end of. Thanks for proving it anyway Meggo and there should now be no argument.
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Post by joanna on Apr 21, 2015 8:51:37 GMT
Reliance on number of shots saved as evidence of capability is laughable. How many saves per match does Courtois have to make?!!
The degree of difficulty for each save needs to be factored in. In any case, there is a lot more to goalkeeping than simply making saves. How does each keeper fare with crosses, command of the area, organisation of defenders and ability to inspire confidence, number of absolute howlers made, distribution, ability to push shots away from danger areas, ability to judge long balls played in, distance of spring, safe handling etc etc?
In almost every category, Andy Lon has this season been better (not you, Andy L, match reporter extraordinaire!) Bogdan is a costly blunder-per-match in waiting. You just have to remember how many times Lonergan turned in man-of-the-match performances when he was first choice until his injury. He kept us afloat in so many games. I would argue that he made saves that Adam would have stood and watched.
I will agree with one statistic: Bogdan is younger! So I hope he will begin to minimise the errors of judgement, the saves palmed out centrally, the dominance of his area, the distribution and so on. Lonergan, by contrast, can only begin to decline with age.
It would not be a disaster if we were to keep them both. In any case, they each regularly outshine most of their colleagues who are of far more concern when it comes to competing at this level. It is the rest of the squad we should be worrying and arguing about!
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Post by andyl on Apr 21, 2015 20:38:25 GMT
Lonergan is 31, Bogdan 27, Amos 25. The very best keepers mature with age and experience. If perhaps they peak at 35 then nevertheless some do very well at 40 or beyond. So age, the point of Joanna's concession above is a doubtful criteria to apply. Jussi is still active at 40 and his best years even for us came at Lonergan's age and beyond.
Bogdan an has played only 11 games this year and some of those were early in the season. If we were judging him say on 2012/13 form or for bits of last year some of Joanna's criticisms would be valid but this year? In contrast Lonergan was in excellent form up to and including the Liverpool return. But games at Rotherham, Derby and Notts Forest took enormous toll of his confidence. At Rotherham he parried the 2nd goal back to the scorer and both there and at Nottingham he misjudged the pace of through balls. Lonergan conceded one penalty unfairly albeit after a misjudgment at home but was caught rabbit in the headlights at Forest. Most worryingly he was carried seemingly comatose like a fallen gladiator from the field after the slightest of contacts.
This is then comes to another reason why some goalkeepers decline. They get the yips. They lose confidence and are psychologically weakened. Jim Leighton was a good example of this. Brilliant for Aberdeen and dominant wit Man Utd he lost it completely and was omitted in the end for Les Sealey an ageing much travelled back up. Leighton made a bit of a comeback but was never the same. Other examples are perhaps Ian Walker who deputised for Jussi but had off field problems or Gordon from Hearts who flounders at Sunderland?
I won't here repeat earlier material re the general comparison of keepers but I admire Joanna's persistence of argument even if it is very challengeable . I suspect though that she may have as much difficulty winning this argument as I do when advocating a role for Trotter in midfield!
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Post by OohMac on Apr 21, 2015 22:28:26 GMT
Going into the 2015/16 and none of the three keepers are contracted so very odd to think that we could start with Fitzsimmons.
Throughout this season AndyL and Joanna have fought for their guys, championing every good save and dismissing their opponents whilst pinpointing little errors along the way. Who won? I'm not so sure. For me Bogdan is younger and a more valuable asset but if Lonergan's wages are much less(which I'm assuming they are) then i'm more than happy to see him behind the sticks.
The fact that Lonergan went off with concussion and was "rested" and hasn't played again makes me wonder what exactly has gone on there. With Lennon openly saying he wants Bogdan to stay makes me think he's made his decision unless its all mind games/contact wars.
Honestly, think Amos is the best of the pick, but can we afford him? The Lonergan-Bogdan debate will go on because both are flawed BUT if Bogdan does improve and get some form he could be worth money(if he signs) Lonergan will never be worth any money for us. But is Bogdan better than Lonergan? At this point i'd say no.
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Post by joanna on Apr 22, 2015 9:07:05 GMT
The goalkeeping position is all a matter of opinion, but we keep repeating ourselves and it's getting tedious for everybody! No more now!
As I've said all along, goalie is the least of our worries, so let's argue about something else.
Now.....about this Trotter bloke.......Apart from him, who else do we need to get rid of at the end of the season?
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Post by andyl on Apr 22, 2015 13:28:27 GMT
Mills , Dervite, Feeney, All loanees save Le Fondre and Amos both of whom it would be good to re'sign Danns , Eaves, Odelusi,Baptiste.
Keep Trotter!!
Of course the reality will be far removed!
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