|
Post by flimwellfan on Mar 23, 2015 7:48:08 GMT
We are virtually safe and after the international break all we have to do is beat Blackpool and we are definitely safe so my thoughts are turning to next season. No-one appears to want to buy out Eddie Davies so NL will be limited to who he brings in. I would love to know what his budget will be and who he will discard from the present squad. The only good thing is many other clubs are in the same financial plight and we have one of the best managers in the Championship. Any thoughts on who will not be retained next season? I think Emile and Eidur will retire.
|
|
|
Post by riochforthereebok on Mar 23, 2015 18:38:45 GMT
I'm guessing we'll finish around 16th spot this time and I suspect that with NL's full season input and loan juggling, we'll probably fare marginally better and I'm going for 12th
Sorry to be so downbeat but unless there's a complete overall and a serious injection of cash into this team, there's not much more NL can do and he's probably thee best man out there to sort it...
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Mar 23, 2015 19:10:51 GMT
I'm tending to agree with you rftr as so many changes to a team means a settling in period before things improve. I'm prepared to accept that as long as we can see something being built for the future. The main problem I had with Freedman was that I couldn't see any progress just a quick reverse fuelled by more and more below average loaners. With the likes of Clough, Vela, Walker and potentially others we could when we get the injured back, have the makings of a decent new squad. If White, Wilkinson and Clayton also come good with Davvo, Pratley and Wheater back plus one or two inspired NL signings the future could look completely different. Of course there are a lot if ifs in that but at least if something is being built I can accept an average year next season.
|
|
|
Post by riochforthereebok on Mar 23, 2015 21:21:42 GMT
I know I'm probably gonna get slated for saying this, but if, sorry, when QPR come down from their loan position in the Prem League to our league and Joey Barton becomes surplus to requirements, I'd take a punt on him, if nothing else, he'd get the crowd more motivated with his combative approach. He'd have to cut with that shoite French accent though Seriously though, I reckon NL must surely be looking at some old timers to add to the youth we have, similar to the Heskey and Gudo signings. He must have a few 'friends' from up north that he can call upon
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Mar 23, 2015 21:25:43 GMT
In two minds with next season. I can see that it will be another struggle of a season. Financially I don't think he'll be given any money to spend. We may be able to bring in one or two freebies and loans but that will probably depend on Spearing, Medo and Baptiste staying out. I'm not sure how many out of contract players he will want to or be allowed to keep.
I would love to have a proper strike partnership for next season. Its very rare that two strikers get on the score sheet. Hope we can keep Le Fondre and partner him up with someone with a bit of pace.
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Mar 23, 2015 22:01:24 GMT
Well neither Sordell or Jutkovic are cutting it at Burnley. I don't know if NL fancies either but it wouldn't surprise me if they were both available on a freebie, or certainly very little, come the end of the season. It might just be worth a punt on Jutkovoc as a partner to both Clough and ALF. As for Barton rftr, I would think he would want a big wage packet so no thank you, not for me. I want enthusiasm and effort but not everything else that comes with him.
|
|
|
Post by flimwellfan on Mar 24, 2015 21:18:23 GMT
Well it seems to me that we are all basically in agreement. My feeling is our gates indicate we are no longer the football town we used to be and probably gates wont get any better next season. Is our future dependant upon outside investment? If so why would anyone want to pay £150 million to buy out Eddie Davies? We are very lucky to have Neil Lennon and we will be even luckier if we keep him. Sadly watching football is on the decline in Bolton. I wonder why? Is it because Bolton has become more cosmopolitan?
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Mar 24, 2015 22:41:33 GMT
Filmwelifan, after the rubbish served up by Coyle and Freedman over the last few years and based on the current squad of loanees and journeymen they assembled is it really any surprise people don't want to part with their hard earned cash on that tripe?
With an increasing batch of quality youngsters coming through and NL hopefully about to clear out much of the dross we should see a return of the faithful in due course. It all depends on how it goes with NL so fingers crossed the climb starts in August.
|
|
|
Post by greydad on Mar 25, 2015 14:44:06 GMT
Some good points raised in this thread, there are definitely some positives re: next season; Clough and Vela have done enough to suggest that they are genuine talents, and Walker looks to be ready to play a regular role in the club's immediate future. If N L can integrate Twardzik and sign one or two of the successful loan signings, particularly LeFondre and Amos, there may yet be grounds for optimism. Wilkinson seems to be making a success of his spell at Oldham, and may develop the physical attributes that he requires in order to play at Championship level. Ream has continued to play with consistency and to generally good effect despite being deployed out of position, and a fit Wheater and Pratley would be a real plus. Strengthening both full back positions is essential, perhaps Moxey will rise to the challenge,and if Eidur does extend his stay he will certainly help in the development of the younger players, and hopefully contribute on the pitch too. Mark Davies remains a problem, would he be worth risking a further contract, his talent is unquestioned, but his absences have left a huge void. He, CY Lee, Holden, and Muamba were a wonderful quartet, and it is no surprise that their talents have not been replaced given the club's financial restraints. It would be wonderful to see a couple of midfielders and defenders from the Devpt. Squad replicate the progress of Vela, Clough and Walker, and if the club were to adopt a serious policy of promoting younger players then most fans would be willing to show some patience...other clubs have achieved some success by doing so, and fans love to see 'their own' prosper.
|
|
|
Post by surreywhite on Mar 25, 2015 18:26:18 GMT
Personally think that unless we can find a new owner from somewhere we all have to accept that this is going to be a long term project to get us back to anything like we would all like us to be... We have some very strong young talent floating about which is something that we haven't been able to say for a long time and these need to be nurtured so that they can continue their growth and potential..
We aren't going to have the cash realisticly to buy much and we can't really cash generate in the short term as there isn't much left to sell! Or what is for sale nobody is buying...
Lennon will need to be creative with his frees and beg/borrow/steal a few more loans - hopefully we can persuade Cardiff to send ALF back for another year but I think someone will buy him..
We need to knuckle down in mid table to 10th for the next couple of years then hopefully flog the new silver eg Clough/walker and vela for some decent cash, if whilst that's happenning we can bring through another couple of gems and them team them up with the hopeful proceeds then we could be back challenging in 3-4 years...
Anything sooner would be a massive achievement in my view... Course all of this relies on holding on to lennon which may well prove to be the hardest task of all when Leicester finally cast off their existing Man...
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Mar 25, 2015 22:48:59 GMT
Well Leicester will be back down with us next season and likely having to get rid of their high earners just like we did so NL would be no better off there than staying with us. On top of that he is still unproven outside of Scotland so he has some work to do before a bigger PL club comes knocking imho.
|
|
|
Post by surreywhite on Mar 26, 2015 14:57:34 GMT
Well Leicester will be back down with us next season and likely having to get rid of their high earners just like we did so NL would be no better off there than staying with us. On top of that he is still unproven outside of Scotland so he has some work to do before a bigger PL club comes knocking imho. Yes Leicester will be down with us, but I would think that their purse strings will be a little looser than ours at least for the 1st year or so as they try to get back up with the parachute payments... That in my view would give Lennon the better opportunity for building his own team than here even if he can only spend 4-5 mil and that seems to be what he wants to do... Your right on the big team front but he will be looked at by lower prem teams and upper championship ones... Wait and see I guess!
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Mar 27, 2015 9:55:00 GMT
Personally I don't see clubs coming in for Lennon at this stage, paying compensation for a manager with no proven experience. He is still learning, I don't think he really grasped the job of playing Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday. He liked to field his same eleven, which was music to the fans ears, and we were winning games and looking great but then the wheels came off and players were breaking down on a weekly basis.
I think he's sort of got his read round this, hence whey AndyL has made more of a deal about tinkering. He definitely has his home tactics and away tactics. He has it half right at least. We bemoan the dropping off Vela, I couldn't fathom it but maybe he knows Josh is playing at 60-70%.
Next season I think we'll see more "tinkering", i hate that word because it makes it sound like picking names in hats. But I think Lennon will set up his systems and the personnel will change to match, not the other way round. I think we'll be harder to beat on the road and hopefully as effective at The Macron. We may need to rest our players more, which may mean dips in form or results going against us where we may expect to win(in this league it is resting resting players, not dropping)
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Mar 28, 2015 18:04:10 GMT
As much as I want this season to end today has shown how bad Saturdays are without football.
|
|
|
Post by andyl on Mar 28, 2015 19:25:40 GMT
To be clear here, Oooooomacron, I have always been and remain in favour of managers planning teams several games ahead, picking teams to counter specific oppositions, resting players during heavy schedules and if you like using squad rotation. I argued for this under all four managers in office whilst contributing to these fora. I have also at times argued, and Joanna once put the same argument, that if stability of selection is desirable it's neverthelss important to have a settled defence.
But even whilst I have argued this the game has speeded up, the statistical assessment of player performance has been heightened and in turn expectations of player effort and tactics have developed for example the dual defensive and attacking role of full backs/ wing backs/defensively competent and minded wingers, always practised but now expected- with not many around for sale. It simply isn't possible to determine upon and stick to a best team and keep faith in it for every game. Nor is it wise. That said a squad of say 20-28 seems to be the optimum for success and 40 + more one of fire fighting and desperation.
What O*6M may be referencing re me here is that I have certainly been these last few weeks more critical of NL than some are disposed to be. I was never in the forefront of those who wanted rid of Megson or Freedman from the off always arguing for patience and the opportunity for them to learn. In Megson's case I wanted rid after the hateful Sporting v Wigan decision. As with most of us I was carried forward with the euphoria of the early Coyle era before the wheels came off after Stu H's injury and the ill fated semi- final v Stoke. But now that those courses have been run I believe it's possible to comment authoritatively on Megson's negativity overall and his awful man and fan management; it's clear that Coyle was tactically naive and throwing games with gung ho 4-4-2s and daft substitutions and it seems there was much to be desired re the professionalism of his approach to training and sports scicence; and Freedman despite having in some ways a good season of championship recovery in his first year,can also be laden with a criticism of his negativity and he seriously lost the plot in his final few games this season- in his defence he had a terrible financial FFP and general context to work with
But what got me re DF ) beside the fact he had clear favourites and betes noirs ( as actually have all our managers) was the hypocrisy or stupidity of his public utterances. And we all at one time or another took them at face value before getting to grips with what was actually going on. He came in, said he was going to bring youth forward and that he would be rotating his teams ( as I wanted) but he didn't do it- he really didn't but he got backed into corners-eventually leaving SKD out long after he should have and then having no gear/ face left to restore him for the run in and he lobbed in Hall for the Blackpool game. ( I didn't so much mind that at the time but in hindsight he has backed a failing and costly signing and that is what he must be judged by re this decision?). He picked the same failing players week in , week out and took too long to discard them or rest them during periods of poor form eg Ngog, Eagles. He talked about playing three at the back but never did it. Megson and Coyle had favourites too and made mistakes a plenty but they didn't keep doing the opposite of what they said they were trying to do . Freedman did. he was either as I say a hypocrite or not as intelligent as the job and his utterances required him to be
Now Neil Lennon is making mistakes but also doing good things in more or less equal proportion. His selection at Forest was awful and threw the game. He seems to be saying that effort in training and on the field ( familiar?)compensates Feeney for his lack of skill. He admires Emile when his goal threat is minimal- which will frustrate. He maybe hasn't identified the weaknesses defensively of Ream and Mills nor harnessed the attacking potential of Ream. But he is decisive. His substitutions have not been pre ordained timings as per Freedman but in response to what has been happening on the field. He has moved players on quickly and promptly and not got stuck in the mire of agents and finance as Freedman so often did. He has brought vela and Clough through and also now Walker. He gave Wilkinson a fair experience and he may develop. he tried and then moved out White, Kellett and he did not pursued the full back selection of Threlkeld after his nightmare at Norwich. He threw Kellett staright into the action at Rotherham and we shipped 4 goals. His record re youth promotion is brilliant and something for us all to hold on to. he has also gone with three at the back which won the game at Sheffield Wed before they twigged it. But adn I am repeating this point ad nauseam - he is rotating his players far more than DF ever contemplated; DF fiddled at the margins ; NL plans and rotates and he doesn't have many good cards in his hand so in my view he has to. His early team based around Chungy was a little more settled but he knew it wouldn't last and set out his transfer window activity to bring in numbers. I think this is all good even if we have dipped in form through the constant changes. And in Amos and Rochina andmaybe Janko we can see already that he has an eye for talent when recruting even if temporarily.
The full story will be written in a couple of seasons time or when he leaves. For now I prefer to reserve judgment and allow NL time to learn, develop and succeed as indeed was teh case for all the others. He just might be amazing or he might be setting up a completed shambles of a legacy. I simply can't call it. Can anyone? But I would hazard that he is not universally infallible and is as others are remarking on a big learning curve.
|
|