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Post by andyl on Mar 21, 2015 17:53:02 GMT
Horrible game on a bad pitch. If we were at all unlucky at Ipswich we were lucky here. I do not understand why Lennon insists on fiddling about with his team. He selects the incomparably weak Feeney who lost yet more points failing to keep the ball in a corner and omitted Vela who upon entry was perhaps again our best outfield player . I'm allowing Feeney 1 pt for a good cross Walker might have converted- he also made a square pass which they could have scored from
We offered a threat in the first 20 from Rochina and Walker but after that weren't in it and if we mustered more than a couple of ineffectual shots I didn't see them. Our goal was thanks to a lucky deflection
Yet again we concede from a set piece throw in the 3rd minute of 5 needlessly added minutes- when will players realise that attention for minor injuries can be given off the pitch.
The positive is that we retain a ten point cushion and from what was seen today Wigan haven't the firepower to close it. One more win will be enough, surely
Bad game, dreadful viewing experience and ridiculous police crowd walking more or less convinced me not to return again. Happily we won't have to next year Amos 9 Mills 4 McCarthy 7 Ream 4 Vela 7 Feeney 1 Rochina 6 Trotter 7 Heskey 6 Le Fondre 3 Bannan 3 Walker 7
Midfield defence consisted of Trotter and after Rochina left precious little else. Trotter gave away several free kicks but got his foot in on many more occasions. He was worth his place today in this ugly game Bannan slid about recklessly. Coke would have been a better fit for this game. Walker made mistakes but all round his game was good- Amos is clearly MoM but Walker if we discount Vela was runner up?
Major clear out needed!
Amos superb- too good for us to afford now?
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Post by davidm on Mar 21, 2015 18:24:20 GMT
Absolutely woeful.
Let there be no confusion – Wigan deserved to win and win handsomely.
We were awful, scored a lucky goal and rode our defensive luck on numerous occasions until the inevitable last minute farce.
We set up as a 3-5-2 formation and for the first 10 minutes had all the possession. Amos did not touch the ball until 12 minutes into the game. But that was it. We relaxed, backed off and lost all control of the game. The remaining 80+ minutes were just a case of hanging on for dear life. And we were lucky!!
During one of Wigan’s many attacks, we backed off and backed off so Perch let fly from 25 yards. The ball beat Amos, hit the bar and bounced down to Clarke no more than 10 yards out all on his own. He could have trapped it but instead tried a first time header which was awful and Amos just picked it up.
We did not learn though and Wigan continued to attack us. A cross came into the left and Mills and McCarthy were up against one Wigan attacker, Fortune, who stood between them and got an unchallenged header in from about 10 yards out which Amos miraculously saved.
We should have behind at half time but somehow survived but did we sort things out at half time? No – not a bit of it. We were awful in the second half. We were just pushed farther and farther back. Wigan hit the post, shots came in from all over and we somehow survived.
Then, lo and behold, a very rare attack with 20 mins to go. The ball fell to Tom Walker who had a shot that Al-Habsi had covered easily but it deflected off a Wigan defender and trickled into the corner. Totally undeserved but I would have taken anything at that stage.
Did it improve us? No we just got worse and worse and the last 10 minutes were spend just swinging a foot at the ball hoping to get it upfield and letting Wigan come at us. There was absolutely no discipline, no control just mad panic.
And, of course, the inevitable happened. Goal conceded in 90+3 minutes. It came yet again from us getting the ball upfield but being unable to keep it. Within seconds of Feeney having it near the corner flag, the ball travelled all the way to the other end, was launched into the box and an overhead kick saw it in the net.
We were so bad, we immediately lost the ball from our kick-off and Wigan had another effort at goal.
It was awful – the majority of this team need ditching in the summer as they have no character, no desire and precious little footballing skill.
Amos - 8 Wonderful save in first half.
Mills - 5 So sloppy. In the second half when we were in mass panic mode, he hit 3 or 4 atrocious clearances that went straight to the opposition.
McCarthy - 6 Reasonably steady but still part of a defence that went to pieces.
Ream - 6 Got caught on the turn a couple of times.
Feeney - 4 Nothing positive whatsoever to say about him. He ran up and down, passed awfully, defended averagely and gave the ball away too often.
Trotter - 4 Terrible. Got beaten in the tackle endlessly. Passing was awful and could not control the midfield.
Rochina - 5 After Tuesday’s reports of him, I was disappointed. Started brightly but faded terribly and created little.
Bannan - 6 The best of an average midfield. Lunged into tackles too often. His shooting was dreadful too.
Walker - 6 Some neat positive attacking ideas but found wanting in his defensive duties. His goal was very very lucky.
Le Fondre - 5 Ran about a lot. Fell over a lot but never looked dangerous.
Heskey - 4 Won a fair number of flick-ons in the first half but we rarely look like scoring when he plays. I couldn’t believe that he lasted the whole 90 minutes as second half, he was laboured.
Vela - 6 Brought some life to the right hand side when he came on.
Davies - 4 Did nothing at all apart from getting booked for diving.
Moxey - 5 Only 10 minutes but couldn’t shore up the defence. Manager - 4 I have rarely been critical of the manager but we were playing the 3rd worst team in the league today and we just were not positive. Second half was a disgrace.
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Post by andyl on Mar 21, 2015 18:47:25 GMT
Bit harsh on Trotter, bit kind to Feeney and Bannan for me David but rest true.
You are right to criticise NL for this. Wigan are good defensively , weak in midfield and toothless up front. They battle well and win some away games counter attacking. So we drop Vela go with two wide players, the one inexperienced , the other weak and we hump the ball upfield non stop and fall further and further back.
So much more sensible to play two wing backs , stiffen midfield keep them at bay as far up field as possible and save Rochina for game changing as they had to come out and press. I'm confident we could have won quite comfortably that way. But we played right into their hands. After the first 20 when we were on top we weren't in it at all. Really lucky with posts hit, Ream ' s goal line clearance, striking ineptitude and (not lucky this) having a top class keeper aboard)
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Post by spanishjonny on Mar 21, 2015 19:01:31 GMT
We stole a point off Wigan today. Lennon and co. need to calm down in the final 15 mins of games because ranting and waving on the touch line is not helping a very shaky defence he needs to calmly tell the players where he wants them to play, with no real captain on the pitch they behave like school boys all moving towards the ball.
Wigan were very nervous for the first 15 mins till they hit the cross bar and fluffed the tap in, but then realised we were worst than them
Only Amos earned his money today, the rest have gone on their hols
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Post by whitesince63 on Mar 21, 2015 19:16:55 GMT
I think NL has little option with this shower and the fact is the team he put out today was to all intents and purposes an experienced team there can be no excuses for a performance like that. Effectively Lennon knows just as we do that basically the majority aren't good enough and even Fergie couldn't get a performance from some of them. I think the point today should be good enough to keep us out of harms way since none of the bottom three look capable of getting enough points to save themselves. NL now has to look towards next year and who he needs to retain from a sorry bunch. Defenders are an absolute priority and hopefully an on field leader because we don't seem to have anyone with a cool head and a little leadership capability from the current squad. For me that's essential but not easy to achieve. Hopefully he will, I don't think I could stand another year of this dross and neither I suspect will NL.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 20:21:52 GMT
So after reading your reports it sounds like a point gained rather than 2 lost but it just gets me when with 2 minutes to go the ball ends up in our net. So on to our home game with Blackpool in 2 weeks don't tell me we can mess that up?
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Post by megsontilidie on Mar 21, 2015 21:40:46 GMT
not gonna waste time over-analysing that one . one to quickly forget and move on. relief it was losing a 1-0 lead than a 0-0 changing to a 1-0 loss late on. bad as this was ..that would have been a real sickener.
expected better after resting players. agree with davidm and Andy...don't like criticising NL but he's making some odd choices. mind you he's probably reaping what he sowed from openly slating mentally weak players. having said Amos had played well in previous games but better protected..not previously making more than 4 saves per game. he was tested here...6 saves and quality as well as quantity.. real shame for him he's not racking up more clean sheets. tantalisingly close so many times. MOM again. hardly heard Trotter or Bannan or Feeney in the commentary. agree with Andy... need play 3 in midfield to solid up ..shades of OC with the flaky wingers..one thing to start with them but why persist with them..make changes. 3 in m/f never did BSA any harm..get that extra cover in there and play wingers/creators higher up 4/3/3.
we need to learn how to see a game out with possession. possession for both halves was sub-50%, and has been for many recent games. when NL first came this was a real plus. 2 week break to sort some issues out and get bodies back. vital we beat Blackpool. with Wigan playing like that they still have belief and probably due some luck. Rotherham slipped up today..they were 2-1 up on approx 85 mins i believe, and let it slip to 2-3. 2 late goals for sheff wed.
Millwall also let a 2 goal lead slip. fulham won...not good. Huddersfield missing 2 pens in that one. & brighton won at away blackburn. Reading lost..even without Zat. Doug-loss lost At Norwich..3-1..Forest has approx 36% possession, although looking at the stats they still had good corner count and shot count 6 on target, but Norwich were outstanding.
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Post by joanna on Mar 21, 2015 22:05:04 GMT
Lifted this blunt appraisal from a different site to allow comparison with the above judgements: For some reason it quite amused me and further comment quite unnecessary.
... that was one of the worst performances I have ever witnessed. Absolutely shocking from start to finish. Make no mistake, Wigan embarrassed us, and but for the woodwork and a world class performance from Amos we would have been looking at a 5 or 6-1 scoreline.
Why is it that 11 professional footballers who command big wages can't even pass a ball 5 yards, control a simple ball, or get within 10 yards of the huge target (the net).
Amos was outstanding. Commanded his area well, made two amazing saves, and should be signed up tonight. The rest were f...g shit.
Amos - 9/10
Mills - 6/10 - probably our best outfield player despite being out of position at right back. Won every header. Shame he's so shit on the ground.
McCarthy - 4/10 - I've seen stronger men in the old folks home round the corner.
Ream - 2/10 - When he went down injured in the second half I prayed he would be taken off. Beaten time and time again down our left.
Feeney - 1/10 - Simply couldn't be arsed. Beaten time and time again down our right, and when attacking didn't have the strength to cross. I could control a nuclear bomb better than Feeney controls a football.
Walker - 3/10 - forget his age, he's a so-called professional footballer who can't even do the basics. Absolute shit. Lost count after 200 for the number of times he passed to Wigan players. Lucky goal, probably would have hit the corner flag if it hadn't hit a Wigan player, although it was so weak it probably wouldn't have reached. How old is this ponce because he was knackered after 70 minutes. When I was his age I ran the London marathon wearing a Beaver costume.
Bannan - 0/10 - I'm not convinced he was actually on the pitch. Never saw him. Send him back to Palace.
Rochinha - 5/10 - to be fair he looked really threatening when he had the ball at his feet and was running at Wigan, a couple of times he dribbled his way through. But asked to do far too much defending because of the fat donkeys around him and got lost.
Trotter - 0/10 - despite being a big fat bastard he has the physical presence of Ronnie Corbett in a coma. Pushed off the ball more times than I can remember. Failed to control the ball once so can't comment on his passing. Ultra shite.
Le Fondre - 4/10 - worked hard enough but was utter crap. Another one who simply can't control a football and passes to the opposition for fun.
Heskey - 4/10 - Again, runs his socks off but only has one setting - "jump for the ball and flick it on to nobody". Can't believe he played the whole 90 minutes.
I've defended Lennon all week but I now have my doubts after that showing. Yes, we have major injury problems but this three/five at the back bullshit is absolute tripe. And taking Rochina off rather than putting him further up field was straight out of the Dougie Freedman negative tactics book. Bannan and Trotter were so shocking I don't think we could have played any worse had we played without them.
Sort it out Lennon!
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Post by greydad on Mar 22, 2015 11:31:46 GMT
Perhaps it was my good fortune to be with grandchildren at Chester Zoo yesterday...I was able to get Tower FM for the journey home, was feeling fairly confident after Walker's goal that we wouldn't lose, but was not surprised at the almost inevitable capitulation in added on time. I was disappointed to see Vela not start the game, was it a case of leaving out a player who is a definite one for the future whilst giving certain players another opportunity to prove that they deserve to be at the club next season? If so it doesn't appear to have had the desired effect judging from the consistent comments from those who were at the game. It may well be , as Andy L pointed out, that the continuing excellence of Amos might propel him out of our reach by the end of the season, but thank goodness he has been such a consistently good player since the Forest game. A two week break now for NL and co. to work with the squad to find a system that will not only get the (should be) mandatory 3 points against Blackpool, but somehow inspire a positive end to the season, beginning with an away win at Cardiff!
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Post by megsontilidie on Mar 22, 2015 11:51:55 GMT
forgot to say in my original post..credit to Walker for shooting with the goal... it wasn't the greatest and got a bit of luck...but many of our players WOULDN'T HAVE SHOT. not surprising that if you do have a shot..all sorts can happen..keeper fumble it, deflections, hit a divot etc... it's a bit like if the opponent has the ball is in your area at 90 mins+ then they CAN score....if you have it, they can't.
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Post by Pedro on Mar 22, 2015 12:27:46 GMT
Just heard NL's interview on BBC ".....fed up of watching it...." !!! another cracking comment from a poster on the BN website about Heskey, who Lennon thinks "...Heskey is showing other players how to play at Centre Forward ...." poster Sasa C says ... " I swear I could have got to one through ball from the stands before he did, " Short highlights: www.bwfc.co.uk/news/article/match-highlights-wigan-v-bolton-2351584.aspxFrom BBC: Possession 54% 46% Shots 22 9 On target 8 3 Corners 10 7 Fouls 5 15
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Post by whitesince63 on Mar 22, 2015 18:14:37 GMT
Just heard NL's interview on BBC ".....fed up of watching it...." !!! another cracking comment from a poster on the BN website about Heskey, who Lennon thinks "...Heskey is showing other players how to play at Centre Forward ...." poster Sasa C says ... " I swear I could have got to one through ball from the stands before he did, " Short highlights: www.bwfc.co.uk/news/article/match-highlights-wigan-v-bolton-2351584.aspxFrom BBC: Possession 54% 46% Shots 22 9 On target 8 3 Corners 10 7 Fouls 5 15 I think it's a question of options Pedro. It probably just shows how far we've slipped that a just about retired Heskey is our best hope. I would also think as a friend of NL's he can rely on him to use what experience he has in the team's best interest. If the collection gets us to the end of the season I personally don't care what the team is.
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Post by Pedro on Mar 22, 2015 18:51:45 GMT
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Post by OohMac on Mar 22, 2015 21:11:06 GMT
5 mins injury time and conceding again, and they football in unpredictable. Very poor this and something that you would think Lennon wouldn't let happen again. For all the sense he speaks post games he's not getting the message through to the players.
I did say we'll stay up because I think we'll pick up points in games we don't deserve from now until the end and this is one of them games, an important one too. At 93 mins and 1-0 I did think we've got a point at least, turned out to be true. On the grand scheme its not a disaster but its very worrying. The fact that we can't defend or win away under three different managers now. People say wait till Lennon brings his own players in, well the ones he's brought in are seeing very little action. Its a bit of a fluke that Amos is playing for us, this could have been Paddy Kenny and we could have been further in trouble.
He seems to have his favourites and unfortunately they are the ones who don't seem to ever play well. Mills needs dropping, captain? Don't think so. Feeney who I don't think has played a good game since his loan spell and Heskey who is not proving should still be on a beach in Australia enjoying retirement. He keeps dropping Vela who is not only our best midfielder but often out best defender too.
People are linking Lennon with Newcastle, Leicester and every other job, often jobs that aren't even available but come on he's not proven himself at all(so far).
The worst of it is that Amos, who is Man of the Match every game these days is playing his way out of reach. A premiership team will take him based on these performances. When we are safe we should play it smarter and drop him to deter other clubs and maybe his agents too. Very good prospect.
Season seems to have ended when Coutinho struck that ball. Now its truly done.
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Post by megsontilidie on Mar 22, 2015 21:20:24 GMT
just look at approx 3.25 in those extended lowlights completely sat off Wigan and letting them play. just putting in effort is a basic no matter how poor you are or off-form. don't like NL saying "he's fed up watching it either". the "nothing to to do with me Guv" attitude was one of the things i disliked most about DF. NL has it in his locker to build the players up more than DF did, so baffled as to why he's choosing this style. i know the loan restrictions means he's having to choose 1 or 2 more of Dougie-duds than he would like but he's not helping by selecting 1 or 2 more of his own accord on top of that. eg Vela dropped for Feeney ??!
you can't only say it's down to poor players..even poor players can be playing to their max and most of those where nowhere near their max level.
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