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Post by Pedro on Dec 7, 2014 9:41:52 GMT
Not our best performance under Lennon, however five games unbeaten and Lennon getting to grips with a team left by Dougloss from relegation favorites to an upturn in results will do for me! Steady as we go! I guess international Clearance prevented Gudjohnson from playing a part today? Pedro did you get to the game?? No, listened on Tower FM and agree with others who were there - they tell it like it is on Tower FM unlike Dearden & Co.
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Post by andyl on Dec 7, 2014 9:46:00 GMT
Opted not to travel to this despite having a ticket. On the face of it you would think I didn't miss much in that it was a 0-0 draw in, I understand, arctic conditions which probably made it a wise choice. Yet from afar I was quite encouraged. We clearly worked hard and matched Reading. If we do lack spark up front Eidur is in the wings and it must be good that Vela, Clayton and now Wilkinson are getting game time even if for now they come up a bit short.
Also if I retain a view that Bogdan, Wheater and Trotter are better players than some of those featuring and that Ream is better in midfield and at centre back than he is at left it must be good for them and us if Lonergan, Dervite , Pratley and Danns are keeping them out on merit. Genuine competition for places must be good. If Spearing gets back in then his passing and man marking will have to be much improved. although personally I don't think he is better than others now playing and I wonder if he's one to trade?
From reports above and by text and previous observation I think Feeney is proving our need of a good winger but not meeting it?
Anyway a good 0-0 away leaves quite a positive feeling and I trust those who did travel did not regret it?
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Post by joanna on Dec 7, 2014 10:32:43 GMT
In the end, it was a good point.
We worked very hard throughout the team but the spark up front just was not there.
There was a lot of good tackling, hassling and passes but when we got to within 25 yards of the Reading goal, we stuttered.
Defensively, we looked OK in open play but from dead balls we were awful. The number of times that Reading got in headers and scrambles at corners and free kicks was excessive. Mills and Dervite need to look at their heading – Glen Murray bullied them.
Can’t complain too much – a point at Reading is good. We had a couple of scrambles in their box and Pratley missed a real good chance when shooting across goal. Craig Davies also brought a good save from Reading keeper following scramble from corner.
Overall, we worked our socks off, never gave up and hung on for a point.
Marks:-
Lonergan - 7. A few good saves but not tested too much.
Vela - 7. Looks class in his work.
Mills - 5. Strange game. In open play, loads of good tackles/blocks but, as I said above, Reading’s corners terrified me. He also spent a lot of time moaning at the ref.
Dervite - 5. Same as Mills – needs to dominate in our area.
Ream - 6. Worked really hard and came close to scrambling the ball in after a corner.
Danns - 7. Really good work throughout including lots of tackling/hassling.
Pratley - 7. As with Danns ran endlessly, tackled well and somehow avoided a yellow card despite a couple of wild tackles.
Feeney - 5. Still a struggle. Some runs spoiled by poor centering.
Clayton - 6. Worked really well. Not many times in the area but good experience.
CYL - 8. As usual these days, a class performance. Some excellent runs and passes.
Davies - 6. On his own up front and struggled.
Agree with most of David's comments above. There was very little to warm us up in the first half, but we were controlled and impressive in terms of tackling and passing, both features which have improved massively under NL. Lonergan rolled the ball out almost every time so that we kept possession (56%) and we looked neat if not incisive. The second half was much more lively and we gave as good as we got with chances and creative play roughly even. BBC highlights are not a fair reflection. CYL was again a class apart, with subtle flicks, strong running, dribbling and passing with real skill. Like the others, he has added excellent tackling to his repertoire. One thing of concern was that he was the only one to show to receive throw-ins and get play going again; the rest just didn't do enough to make themselves available. Lonergan has terrific spring and made a couple of excellent saves that I suspect Bogdan wouldn't have been able to make. He dominated his area , mixing good judgement of when to come for crosses and when to stay at home; his punching away was decisive and crucial. The defence looked largely solid, though a couple of lofted free kicks allowed Reading headers too easily. Midfield was industrious and tidy; Pratley's passing has improved no end and his athleticism is a blessing now, but only CYL provided threatening creativity. Up front, we were fairly impotent, though Feeney managed one or two good runs, but the ball did not fall for us and Davies, Clayton and Wilkinson were rather easily marshalled. There should be a role for twenty minutes of Eidur in these circumstances. AL: 8; JV: 6; MM: 7; DD: 7; TR: 7; ND: 6; DP: 7; CYL: 8.5; CD: 5; MC: 5; LF: 6; CW: 5.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 14:20:12 GMT
In the end, it was a good point.
We worked very hard throughout the team but the spark up front just was not there.
There was a lot of good tackling, hassling and passes but when we got to within 25 yards of the Reading goal, we stuttered.
Defensively, we looked OK in open play but from dead balls we were awful. The number of times that Reading got in headers and scrambles at corners and free kicks was excessive. Mills and Dervite need to look at their heading – Glen Murray bullied them.
Can’t complain too much – a point at Reading is good. We had a couple of scrambles in their box and Pratley missed a real good chance when shooting across goal. Craig Davies also brought a good save from Reading keeper following scramble from corner.
Overall, we worked our socks off, never gave up and hung on for a point.
Marks:-
Lonergan - 7. A few good saves but not tested too much.
Vela - 7. Looks class in his work.
Mills - 5. Strange game. In open play, loads of good tackles/blocks but, as I said above, Reading’s corners terrified me. He also spent a lot of time moaning at the ref.
Dervite - 5. Same as Mills – needs to dominate in our area.
Ream - 6. Worked really hard and came close to scrambling the ball in after a corner.
Danns - 7. Really good work throughout including lots of tackling/hassling.
Pratley - 7. As with Danns ran endlessly, tackled well and somehow avoided a yellow card despite a couple of wild tackles.
Feeney - 5. Still a struggle. Some runs spoiled by poor centering.
Clayton - 6. Worked really well. Not many times in the area but good experience.
CYL - 8. As usual these days, a class performance. Some excellent runs and passes.
Davies - 6. On his own up front and struggled.
agree with most of your comments David except the feeney one if he gets 5 then Pratley must get 8 , feeney is useless cant beat a man cant cross the ball and worst of all is a chicken heart , watch him him when the defender gets the ball up TROTS feeney then at 2 meters he stops and crouches ,thanks says the defender and makes an unpressured clearance USLESS .
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Post by andyl on Dec 7, 2014 14:32:44 GMT
Joanna's point re how static we are around throw-ins highlights a recurrent failing. There were some glaring examples in the last home game. If Chungy didn't move nobody did. Let's hope it's on Nl's 'to fix'list!
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Post by OohMac on Dec 7, 2014 15:19:07 GMT
There is still much to be positive about, its a long time since that Norwich defeat and we haven't played as bad as that since. Draws away and home wins, you can't moan too much. But the way we beat Cardiff and Wigan had me thinking that we may steamroll a few teams rather than dig in for the results.
The creativity isn't quite there. We forgave Freedman originally because he was working with Coyles signings and Neil is doing the best with Dougies team, which he admitted was unbalanced, not confident and generally dull. With no Mavies and losing Lee is a real big blow for us. Too much to ask Gudjohnson to fill that role completely. I'm worried that Gartside will be thinking we're safe and we've little chance of playoffs so no need to give any money away in January(and that might be a fair way of thinking, back Lennon in the summer instead when there's more deals on the table)
I still think this squad is too big all apart from in attack. As said before we need to lose Spearing, Medo or Trotter in place of a striker/winger.
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Post by bonaparte on Dec 7, 2014 20:14:33 GMT
Andy,
You suggest that Bogdan, Wheater abd Trotter are better players than those currently playing in the team. I am not sure how you arrive at this conclusion. I believe that Neil Lennon has a policy of you do not play yourself into the team, but play yourself out of it. Hence the unchanged team week after week. We do not have a better left back than Ream playing out of position. Trotter cannot play as Dans or Pratley have been playing recently.He is not a winger to replace Feeney. Lonergan is as good a shot stpper as Bogdan and has taken to playing the short ball out to defenders very well. Wheater will have to wait for Mills or Dervite to have at least two shockers or get injured to have his chance. I feel sorry for Hall who may possibly replace Feeney, but there must be something in training togive Feeney the edge. But this team has not lost, so why change.
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Post by whitesince63 on Dec 7, 2014 23:14:22 GMT
Saturday should be a big test with Ipswich the best team we've yet faced. It will be interesting to see if we can compete whatever team we play but excepting injuries I anticipate the same team. Hopefully Davies will make it but if not Eidur or Wilkinson would be my pick. Mason has done ok but i'd much rather use our own players than any loanee unless we are looking to sign them, which we aren't with Mason.
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Post by megsontilidie on Dec 8, 2014 9:33:47 GMT
"BBC highlights are not a fair reflection"
you're right there Joanna. 5 chances shown i counted for Reading. just the 1 from Ream for us. anyone relying on those would get a fairly skewed view of the game. i missed the Cravies shot on target in the first half on my feed. i presume it was pretty tame as that was missed out by both FL show and subsequent official bwfc hi-lites. Pratley's shot off target was omitted too. Iles in co-commentary on GMR was fairly certain that their keeper had got a hand on that. Mills supposedly had a shot on target too soon after Ream had his..i don't remember that one, but again it was omitted.
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Post by megsontilidie on Dec 8, 2014 13:55:15 GMT
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Post by whitesince63 on Dec 8, 2014 17:23:23 GMT
Freedman would have blamed anything rather than take the blame himself. His comment that the players weren't good enough despite him recruiting most of them was just brilliant. What a total clown he was but as usual with these things some idiot chairman somewhere will think he can do a job. All I can say is they deserve everything they get, or more accurately don't get!! ?
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Post by megsontilidie on Dec 8, 2014 19:45:17 GMT
" His comment that the players weren't good enough despite him recruiting most of them was just brilliant"
absolutely Whites. he just didn't seem happy til all 11 were his. it's almost as if he chucked his toys out of the pram in a hissy fit. his treatment of Vela has now been proved to be an utter disgrace...all the midfielders he brought in when had him there already. and then you're into a case of wasting limited funds filling a position you didn't need to fill. if he'd stayed any longer Vela would be forced out on a free.
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Post by andyl on Dec 9, 2014 9:26:24 GMT
Bonaparte and anyone else interested in the debate above, I am delighted that Lonergan, Dervite/ Mills, Pratley/Danns are deservedly now keeping Bogdan, Wheater and Trotter out of a fixed, winning or at least not losing team. And competition for places is vital if any or all of these are to do well when called upon
I agree with your assessment of NL's approach to team selection
My point though is that over the three plus years I've seen Bogdan at his best he is stronger, more dominant and more imposing than Lonergan.I believe he would command a higher price on the market. But he has had lengthy, timorous and gaffe prone periods too. Lonergan has greater agility yet for me falls backwards and is too often prostrate. He has greater experience at this level but is poor aerially. Both can make amazing saves. If I think Bogdan is at best better that just means I hope he gets to his best because the team would then be better. At present Lonergan is doing really well and should not be omitted as readily as he was by DF.
Wheater is much stronger aerially than Mills and Dervite who back off too often. His positional sense is better and his concentration too. But he is slow and too inclined to hold and foul. Mills ' distribution is appalling. For all that both are in possession.Mills'calamitous game at Norwich is behind him and Wheater cannot stay fit. I just wish he could
Trotter will divide opinion more. The Leeds goal plus his Millwall goals, a small number of exquisite passing moves in which he has been involved and a brilliant tackle at Charlton last year are all memorable moments.But much like Beckford he radiates lethargy and divides fans. Again at his best I believe he can be better than say Danns. But Danns at present is almost the first name on the team sheet
I see no problem in personally having a preference for watching or indeed taking a view that this or that player is in the abstract better than another. Yet in the real world statistically consistent and effective play and team complementarity are what bring results.Wheater , Trotter and Mark Davies cannot achieve this because they cannot keep fit. If the others can and are more consistent then it follows that ideas of whether a) is better than b) are academic, fit for discussion here but not relevant to team selection. And how good it is to have a manager who is not affronting this logic nor in claiming to educate us is thereby confirming his ignorance?
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Post by joanna on Dec 9, 2014 10:43:48 GMT
Opposition forwards know that if they run at Wheater, they can easily skip past him. He has the turning circle of the Q.E.2. and is forced to hold and concede free kicks. His heading ability cannot compensate, and I'm not sure that his positional sense is very special either. He doesn't score; Mills does.
Lennon is clearly getting Mills to play more simple, accurate, short passes, although, like Zat, Matt still thinks he can play diagonal 50-yard defence-splitters! He has improved a lot recently and his pairing with Dervite is beginning to look effective. The 3 recent clean sheets are not completely due to Lonergan who again is improving his distribution and his command of the area to add to his awesome shot-stopping.
With AL, we get fewer blunders, greater calmness that spreads to the rest of the defence and an encouraging comradeship and togetherness. His punches from lofted balls at the weekend were decisive. Bogdan has too few confident games, tends to parry shots back out centrally and makes horrendous errors, especially in terms of what should be simple judgements of the flight of the ball. Notice how Lonergan springs better and turns shots away out of danger wide or over the bar. He has better reflexes and gets down to low shots better than Bogdan. AB makes his defenders jittery, whereas AL exudes calm.
As for Trotter, he contributes perhaps one positive moment per game, radiates indifference and has two speeds: slow and extremely slow; I doubt that he needs a shower after the match! This simply will not suffice. Danns works his socks off and, with the massively improved Pratley, provides the energy and vitality that is essential to get up and down the pitch. Pratley is a real athlete who has been given the role that suits him and the confidence to deliver.
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Post by megsontilidie on Dec 9, 2014 11:03:09 GMT
"My point though is that over the three plus years I've seen Bogdan at his best he is stronger, more dominant and more imposing than Lonergan.I believe he would command a higher price on the market."
well you know i'm with you on that one Andy. anyone know Bogdan's contract situation - is he in his final year ? i'm hearing some fairly good sources on twitter ( alan nixon etc ) suggesting Bogdan might be sold in January. other chatter around this suggested he was in his final year. Lonergan has done well in the last 5 or 6 games, but i'd be very wary of spotting the difference between form and class. especially as we haven't had a chance to see Lennon's motivational and calming influences on AB. e.g has AL only stepped it up recently as he knows Bogdan is back and pushing him for his place. last season the minute DF said AL was his number one, he went to pieces.
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