|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Oct 4, 2022 20:53:03 GMT
Disgusted with that but not entirely unexpected when you make so many unforced changes and disrupt the pattern of the team. Aimson is absolutely awful, slow and can’t pass. We never controlled the ball at all it was like a hot potato to them but the movement was just totally missing tonight. Anyway, no complaints about the result I think in fact we were lucky it wasn’t by more. Message for Evatt. Stop bloody tinkering and and thinking your clever. Don’t change a winning team unless you have to.
|
|
|
|
Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 4, 2022 20:55:23 GMT
With 62% possession, how on earth did Cheltenham end up with 14 shots? We didn’t even have 1 shot on target
Could have gone into the FGR game joint third.
What a morale sapping event that was.
Why are we so shit on Tuesday away games???
Why???
|
|
|
|
Post by davidm on Oct 4, 2022 21:00:50 GMT
That was truly dreadful.
Totally incapable of controlling the ball. Endless bad passes. Endless loss of possession and just no improvement after 15 minutes with the manager at half time. What did he say to them as there was no improvement in the 2nd half?
We might have had a penalty in the very first minutes when Charles seemed to be clipped and Bodvarsson just failed to reach a Jones centre in the 44th minute.
But in between nothing. No retention of the ball. Lost every challenge and couldn’t string any more than 2 passes together.
Utterly boring just aimlessly passing across the back 3 who inevitably gave away possession in the end.
2nd half no better.
There is really nothing to say – just aimless passing, possession lost all the time and no shots.
We perked up for 5 minutes when Afolayan and Sadlier came on but then faded and it was richly deserved when Cheltenham got the winner but what a shocking goal to concede. Sadlier got space on the right but there was nobody available to pass to. He turned backwards and lost the ball. The ball was played through the middle where Santos just stood off, didn’t mark, didn’t challenge and let their man run through to score.
I can’t say anymore – I am just sick. Terrible, gutless pathetic performance.
Marks:-
Trafford - 8 Only decent performer in the side tonight. One great save and many other good ones
Jones - 4 Couldn’t play wing back in the 1st half
Aimson - 2 Dreadful. He cannot pass the ball accurately. Endlessly conceded possession
Santos - 3 Terrible for the goal. He just did not track the runner
Johnston - 4 Got knocked about too much
Iredale - 3 Dreadful. Passing awful. Dead balls awful
Williams - 4 Got no control at all
Dempsey - 3 Totally lost
Thomason - 2 Apart from one weak shot and a booking, he contributed absolutely nothing to that game
Bodvarsson - 4 Little service but could not keep possession
Charles - 4 Same as Bodvarsson
Afolayan - 4 Started brightly but could not achieve anything
Sadlier - 4 Much better than Aimson but couldn’t create anything
Kachunga - 3 Dived 2 or 3 times but nothing else
Bakayoko - 2 Never noticed him
Morley - 2 Shocking free kick in the last minute
|
|
|
|
Post by kenglowhite on Oct 4, 2022 21:01:06 GMT
Deserved defeat. Passing poor, tackling non-existent, no second balls, too willing to concede throws and corners, no wing play, no service to strikers, no shots on target, too much playing from the back. No hope of promotion with displays like this. Ironic that we are over-dependent on loanees, Trafford and Bradley. Where do we go from here? Only plus I can find....- was their goalscorer offside?
|
|
|
|
Post by one2many on Oct 4, 2022 21:12:59 GMT
Not sure what we were trying to acheive tonight...perhaps bore the opposition into submission? Cheltenham deserved winners. The pass from their striker to set up his team mate was the one bit of class in a drab game. Jones at right wing back did not work which was a shame as there was space on the right side in the first half to exploit.
|
|
|
|
Post by davidm on Oct 5, 2022 9:21:04 GMT
Calmer reflections after a bad result.
Defence
Trafford was yet again excellent. A brilliant save from a header and some excellent catches. Good fast distribution which we failed to benefit from – see the throw out to Bakayoko which he hopelessly mis-controlled.
Santos – strong against physical attackers BUT was badly at fault for the goal. Just did not pick up the runner. I have said this before but he does not mark. He trusts himself to give attackers space and then to catch them and power them off the ball. Well it didn’t work in this match. He just never moved to cover the runner.
Johnston – had a difficult time, again against physical players. There was one corner in the 2nd half when their guy headed just over the bar. Johnston finished up on his backside with their guy getting a free header. He struggles in the air against strong players (see Gillingham at home last season). His forward passing was poor – tended to be hit and hope.
Aimson – a struggle and I would have subbed him much earlier. Cheltenham allowed our back 3 to pass the ball amongst themselves until the ball eventually reached Aimson and then they swooped. He cannot pass particularly well so we endlessly lost possession. He may be a good defender but he does not fit our style of play.
Jones – like a fish out of water at wing back. A mistake by the manager to play him there. There was just one decent forward move just before half time when he broke and put a good cross in that Bodvarsson was inches away from.
Iredale – defensive very poor. Poor marking, poor passing. Probably his poorest game for us. I know that he put in a wonder cross against MK Dons but his corners and free kicks had no danger to them.
Midfield
Williams & Thomason - Very disappointing – seemed to be purely aimed at defence. The combination of Williams and Thomason, although successful in previous games, led us too be ultra defensive. The forward passing from these 2 was poor – just a case of continually passing back to Johnston and Santos. One poor shot from Thomason. Both of them in danger of a red card. I accept that Thomason has had a decent run recently but playing both of them doesn’t half cut down on our attacking possibilities.
Dempsey – had to do all the attacking midfield work himself but he doesn’t have the guile of Lee so really could not create much positive. As with the whole team, his passing was poor
Attack
Bodvarsson – after calling for him to start, he disappointed. He got little service but his ball control/ball retention was not good.
Charles – his usual harassing style but, as with Bodvarsson, poor ball retention.
I tend to give the attackers some leeway as the service to them was rank bad.
Subs
Afolayan did some good touches but faded. The others, well what do you say. Kachunga – 2 dives and nothing else. Was Bakayoko on the pitch? Sadlier had his chance and didn’t perform. Morley wasted our final chance with a rank bad free kick which hit the first defender.
Manager
He seems to have pre-determined Cheltenham’s style of play and loaded the team with defenders. It did not work as all the previous fluency in the team was lost. Why not play our style – the style that gave us such a good start.
Very reminiscent of Burton, Fleetwood, Morecambe away last season when teams press us physical, we cannot cope.
Very disappointed that there was no improvement after half time. What does he say to them at half time?
|
|
|
|
Post by riochforthereebok on Oct 5, 2022 12:30:24 GMT
And that’s your calmer view davidm 😂😂
Maybe you should cut and paste and email to Ian
Or better still, to Marc Illes, as your version is more on the money
Even Phil Brown questioned the need to change a winning side
I actually think his team selection smacked of so much arrogance
Personally, I think them players and even Evatt thought the points were in the bag before they jumped off the coach and because of that and also because I’m terrible at predicting, I’ll go 1-0 defeat to FGR based on the assumption that no one tells Ian Evatt how to pick a team and run a tactical board and like you davidm, what the hell does he say to them at half time?
I was hoping for a Dapo on 55 mins, he waited until 59 mins, but to make a full 5 subs and still not get a result, well then that’s perhaps the biggest eye opener to all us fans. We’re not as good as we think we are
Are we??
|
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Oct 5, 2022 13:36:52 GMT
No real issue with squad rotation. Kerian Lee cannot play Saturday and Tuesday. Connor Bradley was unwell, I assume he probably could have played through but didnt risk it. No real issue except that I kept saying we had cover and people throwing Isgrove, Sadlier, Jones at me. None are wing backs. None are comparable. I assume Sadlier has told Evatt that as he came out and said he wasnt and hasnt featured in that role again.
Isgrove, i assure you, you are misremembering his talent.
And Bod for Kachunga. Well no complaints.
My complaint is 5 from 7 subs. All outfield and we cannot change a game when its blatantly not working.
No Bradley no wing backs. Simple. 451, 442, 433. Pick a new one. Like for like changes after an hour of nothingness.
Will always remember getting beat by Leyton Orient in L2 after some results and Evatt saying "I could tell we'd lose that. Could see complacency set in"
Similar comments "we didnt do it, didnt deserve it. Lost all our battles"
For someone who says "i will take it on the chin" he sure does duck and dive.
Know some said we could take 21/21 pts in this run in. Never gonna happen. We're not potent enough, not creative and not cilincal enough.
Our strikers are L2 level. Dapo included. Had any bids actually come in we should have snapped thier hands off(they never did though)
|
|
|
|
Post by andyl on Oct 5, 2022 19:15:19 GMT
Some of the above is in my opinion too harsh but I think Ian Evatt got caught last night between two stools and took a risk which didn't come off. I have no problems with the selection in general if its immediate object was to stand up to a robust, aerial attack, a close press, a packed defence on a cramped pitch. It was never going to be expansive, so packing the team with defenders and limiting our attacking options was a definite option for an away game. The very best teams do it. So, two defensive midfielders, defensively orientated wingbacks and when needed a packed defence was fine. Just maybe he should have gone with just one of Bodvarsson and Charles on this logic, played the one a little deeper and maybe used say Sheehan or Saddlier or Dap from the off in he case of the latter two on a flank,
And what we could miss is how well the defence and defensive midfield actually played. For fully sixty minutes we won every single defensive header, got to every cross first, did lots of back tackling- I can remember any number from Williams and Thomasson and one excellent one from Dempsey. I thought Sanots had his best game in ages for sixty minutes, calm in possession winning a fair few headers. Johnston won quite a lot and I thought Aimson was excellent- the attackers admittedly with no May were completely stifled.
The morale sapping problem was not that we tried to pass it around the back for once. It was that we just lacked one man in midfield and as a result had no easy outlet ball, so we kept firing wide and impossible passes or overhitting long punts seemingly incapable of realising that we weren't actually on our own wide Reebok ( did I read we can call it that again soon perhaps- not that I ever stopped!). In this respect Aimson was awful, we gave possession away so often. It seemed almost a return to the dull Parkinson days.
The next problem was that Evatt cannot be Parkinson. He insists on good football as he sees it and playing from the back and going round the flanks. Parky might well have done exactly what Cheltenham did, deferred change to the 70th minute, bored us all silly and got away with a dull draw or a late winner. But Evatt (you could see his unease in the arguments with referee and assistants, opposing numbers.), depending on your view of him had an attack of hubris or took a risk which didn't come off in trying to put more emphasis on attack.
So, he took the risk of using all five subs and at that all five were midfield or attacking subs. I did alert this at half time. It was possible that Dapo or Saddlier or the others could come on and get a goal but on that pitch it was just as likely that they would lose possession and cause a breakaway or allow more long balls- but this time to a Santos charged with marking a man and bereft of Aimson to do the positional work.
Dapo showed a little,Saddlier was anonymous and Bakayoko had all the control of a pinball machine. As observed above just watch him flounder with Trafford's excellent throw out. Predictably, I think, the only consequence save for one or two bright moments from Dapo upon entry was that our 10 man defensive shield was breached. And in the end as he always does Saddlier lost the ball, and a through ball exposed Santos whose fault yet again was to lose his man for in my calculation the 4th, maybe 3rd goal that must be chalked up to his deficit account this campaign. Last year he was personally accountable for over 20. The man cannot head a ball by virtue of not being able to get off the ground and he cannot mark a man. Lest this appear to be more of a harping 'witch hunt' I qualify it by having said earlier that I thought he had his best game to date this season in that first half.
There was of course another alternative at the outset - a more conventional 4-4-2 with the wing backs sacrificed for a midfielder and a flanker and narrow strategy to suit the pitch. This might well have produced more chances for us- as it was we only had the first minute one.
In sum I think Evatt picked a sensible side but he made his changes too soon. So, I'm now going to mark the first 60 minute defensive strategy and Trafford's Banks like save and not all the horrors of mis-passing the set up in conflict with philosophy led to
Trafford 9 (I think he made one poor pass or else that game would be a 10) Aimson 8 Santos 7 Johnston 7 Iredale 5 (thought he was off key defensively) Jones 5 Williams 7 Thomasson 7 Charles 7 Bodvarsson 6, Dempsey 6
But if we judge the first 60 on our attacking nous and ability and the last 30 overall, then much more as David's marking Saddlier gets next to nothing, ditto Morley, Bakayoko gets zero, Dapo gets a 4 and all the others svae Trafford lose point s from poor passing and in Santos case the crucial error.
It was a tough game in a tough place. There was always going to be a chance or two for Cheltenham. We had no Delaney to go and win in added time. And I just think that instead of accepting the rubbish passing Evatt lost patience a bit too early and the balcnce sheet of his substitutions in the end cost us (and I did point to this risk at half time. I even nearly predicted a Santos headed winner- a defender though beat him too it and cleared over his own bar.
|
|
|
|
Post by chip on Oct 6, 2022 11:17:21 GMT
Excellent report andyl as I’ve just got home. Want to talk about Ian going to other clubs now it’s very strange that he is never mentioned when other teams are looking for managers, so why not has Sharon said something or has Ian told his agent he’s not going anywhere me personally I want him to finish what he started even though he messes about with the team to much. Apart from injuries just play your best team Cheltenham are not teams we should be getting beat by especially without a shot on target by us 🤷♂️Onwards and upwards COYWM
|
|
|
|
Post by OohMac on Oct 6, 2022 13:12:50 GMT
Not sure how Aimson can get a 2/10 and an 8/10 in the same game. By two level headed posted too.
Are we having a good season. Well our points per game average is just above what people say is the magic number 1.8 so hard not especially having played Ipswich, Sheff Weds, Plymouth, Posh, etc.
Our goals per game though is 1.18 just over 1 a game. That for me isnt good enough at all and points to my point about the handbrake being on and also fluffing chances and strikers not being good enough. I think our constant chopping and changing has really played a part in that whereas our mean defence can be attributed to picking the same back 5 for most of those wins.
What is telling, and this is just me picking figures from my head but in the Summer I valued our squad(big hitters) as
Dapo £3.5M, Santos £2M, Charles £1M, Morley £800k, John and Johnson £750k possible £500k for Jones, Dempsey and Bodvarson.
Same players now:
Dapo £1.5M Santos £1M, Charles £500k, Morley £400k, John £200k Johnson £750k, Dempsey £300k Jones £500k and Bodvarson £150k
So basically think most of our players have less value through poor form. Some staying as they were and only George Thomason on the up who has probably gone from a possible release to a £400k player.
Trafford and Bradley are great assets probably £5M+ but means nothing to us.
Wasnt the plan to be self sufficient to move these players on for profit and get the next batch? Remember Sharons Cowgils interview she mentioned (surprisingly) about stepping away after Y3.
|
|
|
|
Post by andyl on Oct 6, 2022 13:50:29 GMT
To clarify. My Aimson 8 is purely about his bog standard defensive heading and marking. He's a competent old school Div 1 defender and because we have Santos who is not and Johnston who perhaps will be when the game is like that and he plays Aimson is a safe pair of hands. I can't think of goals against down to his inability to mark.
But the 2 is also fair because his distribution was abysmal error upon error and he just cannot bring the ball out of defence whereas Santos is good at that even at times excellent.
I cannot agree with your pricing of our assets,ooohmac. But notwithstanding that the reality is that the club did not receive a bid for manager or any player. That says everything.
I can see that Thomasson might go for up to a million in a year's time if he continues on this McAteer like trajectory. Lee is our best player but not fit enough to command a big fee. The rest would be lucky to fetch £250K.Santos has some outstanding qualities which could nudge him higher but his defensive deficiencies are innate and incapable of improvement so I doubt it
More generally we remain fortunate that Sharon acquired us but it cannot be easy. There are probably debts unpaid from the administrative process, COVID will have hit hard and we have a big operation. Commendably she is nibbling away at the infrastructure. But at a guess the level of debt may well have grown during her tenure. The part share sale was it was a big clue. If a buyer were to appear she'd surely listen?
That said if we can somehow get a promotion and somehow stabilise in the championship it's just possible we might move forward.
|
|
|
|
Post by whitesince63 on Oct 7, 2022 13:01:38 GMT
Sadly andyl, you’re seeing something in Aimson that I’m not and I think even a 2 for him was generous on Tuesdays performance, which by the way didn’t surprise me in the least. I’ve seen nothing in him since he came here and he would be one of the first to go in January if there are any takers. That said, the biggest error for me was Evatt playing him at all when there was absolutely no need to move Jones when Sadlier would have been a much better option. I think that was just one of Evatt’s errors on Tuesday so let’s hope he’s learned for tomorrow?
|
|
