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Post by davidm on Feb 9, 2021 21:10:10 GMT
What an absolutely boring style of play we adopted tonight!
Pass, pass, pass between Gilks, Santos, Baptiste and then back again.
At one stage, we had 63% possession but had not got into Morecambe’s penalty area.
Our tactics stunk.
Yes, we scored and were winning but Morecambe, albeit with more basic tactics, looked just as dangerous as us and we were desperately hanging on at the end.
Our passing in the last 15 minutes was atrocious. I know we had 10 men but you still should be able to pass to a colleague.
Massively disappointing.
And please someone get Steve Eyre to talk sense. When we are playing poorly, say so!
Marks:-
Gilks - 6 Not too sure at his attempt or lack of attempt to save their goal
Brockbank - 6 Steady and one good break into their box
Santos - 5 Outjumped for their goal. Its all very well passing the ball left and right and back but a defender has to win headers,
Baptiste - 6 Steady but gave away too many free kicks
Jackson - 4 Poor passing
Williams - 3 No no no. Tom Thorpe mark II
Thomason - 6 The main positive player in the team
Isgrove - 4 Two crosses in the first half but other than that nothing
Gnahoua - 4 Not in the game. He contributed a pass to the goal but otherwise very quiet
Delfouneso - 5 Similar to Isgrove and Gnahoua. He just wasn’t in the game enough. Credit for the build up to the goal
Doyle - 5 Scored so credit there but his shooting boots weren’t on and in the last minute why didn’t he take the centre half on?
Elbouzedi - 3 Anybody see anything from him
John - 4 Couple of runs but nearly beaten for a second Morecambe goal
Jones - 4 Again, no forward movement
Afolayan - 5 Two bright early touches then joined everybody else in just booting the ball upfield
Maddison -1 Nearly scored and then was stupid
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Post by andyl on Feb 9, 2021 21:24:34 GMT
Touchwood we have enough to avoid relegation. Made me laugh did that, Andy. Is it that bad? It most certainly is!
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Post by realtrottersforever on Feb 9, 2021 21:30:31 GMT
And Southend won And Stevenage won Stevenage beat Tranmere. Crawford started and was subbed off on 58 mins ! he didn't play at all in the win at the weekend. that Southend one is a strange one. beating Newport. they've been faltering. but had previously only failed to score in one game. now they go and do that again to a side like that. don't think we'll get relegated though. bottom 2's goal diff is both -26 !! no-one else even in minus 10s. Stevenage have only had one previous away win and that was vs Grimsby (currently rock bottom ). so unlucky to be facing them with even a modicum of belief in their system on Sat'day. I managed to win my bolton or draw bet. also had a 2nd bet on Bolton to win. luckily cashed out soon after Maddison was sent off. MM possibly bit unlucky with the tackle. more yellow than red. slow mo's seem to show him just nicking the ball first, but it still looked slightly wild , uncontrolled jump tackle. certainly a forwards tackle. some Charlton fans saying he fell out with Bowyer for his lack of tackling. remember too it was him recovering his own mistake giving the ball away. the balls fall much closer to Wildig, so he's favourite, MM then accelerates into the challenge. impetuous. for their goal...looked like Baptiste possibly was closest to the scorer when he headed in. yet another set piece conceded. www.whoscored.com/Teams/92/Show/England-Boltoni've said this before..but it's classed as a weakness in our team profile.... weak at defending set pieces...also weak..avoiding fouling in dangerous areas. you get better by fixing your weaknesses. are we doing this ? Lynch probably upped his demands again after that.
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Post by whitesince63 on Feb 9, 2021 21:46:59 GMT
We can site weaknesses at the back rtf but we were just abysmal tonight. In the Orient game we pressed, got the ball forward quickly and could have scored a hatful. Tonight we were pedestrian, slow, side to side, not attempt to penetrate until Fonz for once decided to run at the defence and we scored. Just two or three simple quick passes was all it took. Annoyingly, instead of coming out for the second half looking to quicken the pace and take the game to Morecambe, we just slid back into the sideways, slowly, slowly crap. The substitutions to me were premature.mi know he wants to give the players game time but although Isgrove was doing nothing (as usual) I thought Arthur was still looking dangerous. If anything I’d have taken Fonz off, he’d done his bit for the night. All in all I think the team is over coached and we need to cut down this sideways stuff and look for opportunities to get the ball forward much quicker. Too many players look to pass the ball rather than run with it or make a forward pass and to be fair, the forwards aren’t making the runs to do that. It’s all so pedestrian and it needs to change.
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Post by OohMac on Feb 9, 2021 22:18:28 GMT
We created very little and i'm not convinced we were guaranteed all the points with 11 men.
Ref was poor 2nd half caving to every dive and shout. They made a poor tackle a red card though the pass to make that tackle was unbelievably poor and suggest to me Maverick Maddisons head is gone.
I dont want to constantly blame Evatt but subs on the hour mark seem very passive.
We cannot defend set pieces still. We're 6months under his tenure and basic stuff still not being put right.
Gilks is aging he doesnt even try and get low anymore. What a mess weve made of this position.
We seem to struggle when playing against 10 men. Even for long periods and losing games. We had a relative short spell but just collapsed with what had to be the oddest substitution ive seen. Leave Tutte off and throw a lightweight winger on.
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Post by andyl on Feb 10, 2021 8:08:58 GMT
So again, I wake up to the news that it was the referee's fault. A familiar pattern. And if pending video analysis I incline to the view that the red card was harsh and may be overturned , the notion that the referee was pressured is rubbish. Those decisions are made instantly but you give yourself time to think as a referee and you clear the distractions away and then act. It looked like a red card challenge. In a typical situation for one. The more interesting question is whther with ou superior fitness we would last the strongest and render it meaningless.
Not so far as I saw. we spent the whole first half drifting, passing to our full backs as often as not behind them whist Morecambe stood more or less still. If ever we made it in to an attacking position, much of the time that was good enough and we played it all the way back again. We have not target man , of course, so although Baptiste did play some forward balls in that period they always came back.
There is also the point that when Delfouneso is on we play with then anyway. I strongly suspect that Maddison or no Maddison the result could have been the same. He did at least hit one half decent shot, no one else has had a shot in ages otehr than Doyle who doesn't exactly shoot and when he does he messes up. He passes the ball into the net and is good at it.
Why Elbouzedi and not Tutte or Comley when we actually have ten. Almost every team in that situation consolidates but not us. And all those free kicks.
It6 seems we are an honest team and everyone else cries foul. O yes the team with Sarcevic and Delfouneso and Isgrove.
As many I was full of hope after the BWFCST meeting and transfer activity. Surely my eyes had deceived me in the early part of the season.
But no, same old, same old and a sense as for the last three seasons, that we are chronically under -achieving relative to players on the books because actually some players are more than good enough to excel at this level- to date they don't belive it and don't sustain the patches that show it and it is deeply, deeply frustrating. I lose count to fhe times I scream play it forward at the screen
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Post by one2many on Feb 10, 2021 8:18:36 GMT
Being a referee must be very difficult, having a split second to make a decision unlike us who can watch replays without being surrounded by complaining footballers. However, having just seen the highlights, that was not a red card, probably not even a foul. Maddison played the ball and came away with it. Brave tackle from a player who clearly wants to impress his new club.
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Post by OohMac on Feb 10, 2021 9:07:02 GMT
I think/thought the ref was bad but in real time the MM looked bad. My initial thought was straight red. VAR saves him, an appeal may too.
Red card was 72mins. Real promotion hopefuls should be in a more commanding lead and probably grit it out.
Goal in the first half and not even a half chance. MM tested the keeper before red. Any game you create so little you run the risk of getting pegged.
How can you have Doyle, Gnahoua, Isgrove, delfounso on the pitch and get such little success. Back to Evatt ball with Baptiste and Gilks hoarding possession.
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Post by whitesince63 on Feb 10, 2021 9:47:07 GMT
So again, I wake up to the news that it was the referee's fault. A familiar pattern. And if pending video analysis I incline to the view that the red card was harsh and may be overturned , the notion that the referee was pressured is rubbish. Those decisions are made instantly but you give yourself time to think as a referee and you clear the distractions away and then act. It looked like a red card challenge. In a typical situation for one. The more interesting question is whther with ou superior fitness we would last the strongest and render it meaningless. Not so far as I saw. we spent the whole first half drifting, passing to our full backs as often as not behind them whist Morecambe stood more or less still. If ever we made it in to an attacking position, much of the time that was good enough and we played it all the way back again. We have not target man , of course, so although Baptiste did play some forward balls in that period they always came back. There is also the point that when Delfouneso is on we play with then anyway. I strongly suspect that Maddison or no Maddison the result could have been the same. He did at least hit one half decent shot, no one else has had a shot in ages otehr than Doyle who doesn't exactly shoot and when he does he messes up. He passes the ball into the net and is good at it. Why Elbouzedi and not Tutte or Comley when we actually have ten. Almost every team in that situation consolidates but not us. And all those free kicks. It6 seems we are an honest team and everyone else cries foul. O yes the team with Sarcevic and Delfouneso and Isgrove. As many I was full of hope after the BWFCST meeting and transfer activity. Surely my eyes had deceived me in the early part of the season. But no, same old, same old and a sense as for the last three seasons, that we are chronically under -achieving relative to players on the books because actually some players are more than good enough to excel at this level- to date they don't belive it and don't sustain the patches that show it and it is deeply, deeply frustrating. I lose count to fhe times I scream play it forward at the screen Couldn’t agree more with every word of that Andy, like you I was constantly frustrated by the refusal to play the ball forward, instead of sideways or back. Every other team that comes here, even the bottom clubs, move the ball better and get it forward quicker and with more purpose than we do. We could easily have lost that game last night by 3 or 4 but for poor finishing. We were lucky to get the point. Other than the goal and Maddison’s effort we created nothing, despite having more than enough potential firepower both on the field and on the bench. I’m really trying to support the Evatt way but find I’m just becoming so angry and frustrated with seeing us completely surrender games to opposition we should be thrashing. In the first half of the season, you could make an argument that the players weren’t good enough and had come from lower levels but you certainly couldn’t make that argument last night as we’ve now got players who’ve played at much higher levels, yet the football was still the same. Sideways, back, slow, unambitious, when he have players capable of attacking quickly and overrunning teams. Our goal proved it, two or three good passes and we were through. Surely Evatt must be seeing this too, he can’t be blind to it. Players just don’t seem to be able to use their own initiative, just follow the keepy, keepy method drilled into them in training. I do wonder if that’s why Crawford left? He is an attacking type of player and being constrained by Evatt’s system clearly didn’t suit him. He needs to be playing forward balls to runners but we don’t have any runners, we’re just going sideways. I don’t know where we go from here but I do know that I’m running out of patience with what’s going on now and I don’t think I’m on my own.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 11:09:29 GMT
You're certainly not on your own whites. You can see from the posts on here.
I don't know if you saw my earlier post where I watched the game on bet365, albeit a tactical version. I wished others could have seen it. It reflected everything said on here regarding he tippy tappy in our own half. It takes a lot of concentration to play that way and if a little pressure is applied from the oppo, you know it will collapse.
You bring up a good point regarding the players being over coached and not allowed to use their own initiative. Perhaps Evatt has the plan in his head, but putting it into practice is another thing entirely with the players we have.
I too, was a referee in the Ontario Referee's Assn. I've seen the video of the foul and it looks harsh, but from a referee's point of view during a game, it's a red card and I don't think it will be rescinded. in my opinion.
Andy pointed out Evatt's aftermath excuses and they are feeble when you consider that he doesn't complain when things go his way. One thing about the players, as I found out in my time. They can play the game, but they don't know the laws of the game and neither, it appears, does Evatt. Recently, has a professional footballer taken up refereeing on retirement? I'd be interested if anyone knows. Andy?
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Post by realtrottersforever on Feb 10, 2021 11:17:27 GMT
a few other random thoughts. yesterday I thought Baptiste was the main culprit for the goal conceded. on closer inspection. it was ElBouzedi who lost his man. these MEN player ratings aren't as insightful as i used to think, but he does generally attribute the blame for the goals correctly. partial blame for Baptiste..he could have at least jumped. but ZE main man for losing his man. www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bolton-wanderers-player-ratings-morecambe-19805172Dapo did quite well. couldn't we have bought a full lion, not just half a lion. ( have a think about that one.. ). Thomason also did well. astute observation by Andy about Doyle's shooting. true he does pass into the net generally. lacks a bit of punch in his shots. all this boring slow build up play. it clearly comes from Evatt. not the players. he doesn't think it's bad. he thinks it's good. don't know if anyone saw it, but Eddie Howe was on MOTD OR MOTD2 a week or so ago. he made a good original point about good counter attacks having no more than 4 passes. direct, accurate, efficient. why ..because, if you take too long , the defence all get back and are ready for you. forget counters, our main attacks just get stymied for the same reason. Evatt talks about moving the opponent, and wearing them down. one of the few aspects Eyre got right last night...Morecambe just didn't bite. they held their ground. they didn't get sucked in. and if they do that. there's no plan B. I saw Feeneys pre-match interview for the game vs Us. he said we're a footballing side and we won't come and make life difficult. we'll come and play and open up. there's a positive to that, but it's also predictable. DavidM also made a good point. just because we'd gone down to 10. we didn't half surrender possession a lot, and retreat back. I know we're not in Man city's class, although Evatt might disagree, but i'd fancy them to outpossess a weak opponent even if they had 9 men. if you can manage such "dominance" 11 v11 , surely 50/50 at 10v11 isn't too difficult. all very well passing back and square under no pressure. true test of your passing is passing forwards & situations like that. many teams practice for that situation. ironically, at the end, we had 2 decent chances as Morecambe were almost over-gambling..making tons of subs, committing men forward, but then making some awful passing errors themselves. and we were able to counter them, with them all at sea upfield.
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Post by realtrottersforever on Feb 10, 2021 11:44:26 GMT
we had all of the possession- what 100% ? repeat ad infinitum about dominating and dictating. never once said, we needed to create more clear cut chances. or we needed to move the ball faster or anything.
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Post by whitesince63 on Feb 10, 2021 14:20:44 GMT
I don’t know whether he actually believes all this stuff he says rtf but if he does then I’m seriously worried about him. We did not dominate the game, if anything they did once (again) they’d realised that we were no threat. Most teams we play start off with a little reservation but then quickly find that we’re no threat to them and grow in confidence as the game goes on. We are so predictable in everything we do and managers of other teams know it and deal with it. They know we will pass the ball to a defender on our six yards box, so they immediately press whilst their midfield man marks ours to close down the outlet, yet we continue to do it. We don’t attack quickly, preferring to pass sideways and backwards until we lose possession. This is why Doyle regularly has to come so deep, because he’s isolated and nothing comes forward. Watch our players when they receive a ball. All of them immediately stop, turn backwards and look for someone to pass sideways to. Look at the opposition, when they receive a pass, they touch forward and look to make ground before passing. It’s just so bloody frustrating because they’re obviously being coached to do that and I’ve lost count of how many times I scream at my screen for them to go forward instead of back. Last night, the worst culprit was Jackson. Every time he received the ball to his natural left foot, he controlled the ball backwards onto his right foot and was quickly closed down necessitating a backward pass. If I, as an amateur can see these things, how can Evatt not, or is this what Evatt actually wants because we retained possession? I just despair because we aren’t improving, despite recruiting better players. Last night I really expected an open, attacking performance, just like against Orient but sadly we were treated to another dose of mind numbing boredom. In days gone by we used to attack in waves, we’d control the game for long periods and at least have attempts on goal. We now have four or five strikers but if we continue to play the way we are it will be of no avail as we just don’t get the ball to them quickly enough to stretch the opposition defence. I really align with the Eddie Howe piece about four passes to score. In fact that’s exactly what we did last night when we did score, it was so easy yet we never tried to do it again. Work that one out.
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Post by OohMac on Feb 10, 2021 20:37:32 GMT
Just really worried about Evatt as a coach and as a manager.
Coach - keeps talking about his murderball sessions. I dont see us having superior fitness. We do finish games stronger because we're generally behind and other teams settle to see out a game. Last night when did we ever look stronger and fitter than any team?
I'm worried that egocentric/deluded Evatt thinks one day he'll be at the top table with Pep and Bielsa and thats making him neglect training sessions that are archaic and ugly like defending and attacking set pieces.
Also issue Steve Ayre full of praise for the team and said recruitment in the summer was awful. Hang on Gilks, Jones, Santos, Baptsite, Isgrove, Delfouenso, Ghanoua, Doyle, Comley, Tutte. All summer signings all in the squad.
Jackson was hardly a huge improvement on what weve seen. Elbouzedi hardly setting the world alight.
No Phoenix to blame this time. We're running out of people to fire to cover up Evatts inadequacies. Surely Peter Atherton and Lofty are on thin ice.
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Post by andyl on Feb 11, 2021 10:12:15 GMT
Re ex footballers becoming referees, strangely, no. I have often wondered that not least because cricket umpires always used to be ex players of note- albeit less true in the modern era.
Bolton have a bit of history here. Older forum contributors may remember Bob Matthewson. He became a well known referee and had played for us at centre half ( there's a googleable article)- it was more common in earlier football years, More recently some may recall Tony Philliskirk taking this path on retirement although he didn't persevere.
Like you, wots, I think that from the referee's position Maddison's despatch was inevitable. He certainly gave him a decision to make. I too doubt it will be overturned because it looked reckless. What may just redeem him is that the other player went into him at equal speed.
It is though completely irrelevant to the outcome of the match and if it was a turning point Evatt made it so by not immediately consolidating and protecting the lead. Two years ago we witnessed Burton, I think it was, holding a ten man 1-0 for almost 60 minutes and never looking in the least danger of conceding. I'm sure it's not just me here or in the wider BWFC community who expects opponents to score from every set piece and breather a sigh of relief when not.
Maybe I go on at Delfouneso too much, but I find him completely frustrating. Talent for sure. But did anyone else spot the really great close heading opportunity he squandered when nodding tamely to their rooted keeper- agreat chance. Also look at his face when the red card is brandished- we have seen it a lot--- there is nothing of camaraderie , roll up sleeves, do it for Marcus--- it's a look of resignation , of defeat of concession--- it's not even of anger.. And we have seen it so often. We just don't need that- it rips through the team. It also results in Doyle running about twice as far out of position as he ever needs to.
But whether upfront or at the back we are poor at set pieces and poor aerially ( MJW helped a bit there -to give credit).. I would love it if we set about teams with gusto, regularly played the se four pass incisive transitional counter attacks, terrified the opponents when they are defending set pieces and got stuck in all over the field from the off. Jackson was clearly coached into passing back - he turned the left flank into as great as road block as Andy Taylor used to. We have seen lots of forward looking passing left backs at BWFC - if the likes of Syd Farrimond and Don Macallister were uncompromising and a bit limited they never less generally clipped the ball forward to runners. Tony Dunne was excellent but even Jimmy Phillips who could have torrid games would storm forward if he could- one 5 goal Wolves, I think, demolition at Burnden springs to mind. Burke, Charlton, Whitlow and perhaps best of all Ricky Gardner all showed how it could be and if they had someone to link with any of these, eg Peter Thompson, Alan Thompson, Martin Petrov , Scott Sellars, that flank could really be exciting, even Mixu had a magic left foot if wide.
If IE thinks we dominated that game or had any sort of ascendancy I disagree. If he thinks the referee turned the game, well really. If he thinks he made the right substititions, er.. the proof of the pudding. If he thinks we are good at set pieces, ewr...
Just now we are in a relegation , going out of the league battle. let's not kid ourselves. We certainly have the players and squad to progress. I haven't seen a team to be wary of. It all comes down in my opinion as to whether IE can build on some shoots that yes he can be credited with planting and watering adn ensure that something grows rather than blaming the crows who ravage his crops. Crows will be crows and at the moment we give in ever so easily and passively all too often
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