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Post by davidm on Jan 2, 2020 18:06:26 GMT
What now for the rest of the season?
Did the Burton defeat finish us off?
Are we certain to be relegated?
If so, should we be planning for next season?
Is there any point in looking to buy or loan players in the January window? Or is it a waste of time?
Should we be concentrating on developing a decent squad and playing decent football ready for league 2 instead of short-term fixes for this season?
Are results irrelevant in the grand scale of things?
Or am I just a miserable old fogey - a defeatist?
I think we are relegated now so let’s get the points deduction from the EFL and build for next season because, in my mind, this season is finished.
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Post by one2many on Jan 2, 2020 19:47:22 GMT
For sure we are down but no big deal. I think that we should start building for next season. Try bringing in loan players who will be out of contract to see how they get on; do well and they get signed by us. Do Really well and they get signed by a better team! Continue to also ease the kids into the first team. Good planning needed.
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Post by OohMac on Jan 2, 2020 22:20:59 GMT
We would need championship winning form to avoid the drop. Which at one point thought was on.
Not anymore.
You cannot win games defending so poorly.
We should always try and get the best squad available to us whether thats loans or not. Dont agree with it being a waste. Clubs have always used the loans to bring in better quality they cannot nurture or afford to buy. Lot of our better players came on loan and decided to stay.
If Hill doesnt get a proper centre back who can organise a back 4 they have no chance of even jumpfrogging Southend.
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 3, 2020 11:23:51 GMT
Loans are ok but only if they are prospective signings, which is my problem with Bridcutt and Verlinden. They were always going to be short term, which was fine whilst we had a chance of surviving this year but clearly we now don’t so the situation has changed completely. We are now building and preparing for next season so only players who could be here next year if they perform should be signed. More importantly.KH needs to decide on his system and build on it. At the moment I have no idea what he’s trying to produce. We started off with two wingers and quick pass and move, which was great but now that’s disappeared and we’re lumping it more. The defence looks disjointed and the midfield completely ineffective. With Dodoo and Murphy we do have a half decent strike force and with support from Politic, Darcy and potentially Hall and Crawford when they’re fit, we should be more than a match for anyone in L2. So for me it’s defence and midfield we need to improve and certainly at CH where Wright is more of a liability than asset. I’m actually not unhappy with Mathews. I know he’s come in for some flack and probably needs a rest, so another keeper is probably also needed if KH doesn’t feel Alexander is ready. Other than that we need to see if KH is the man to deliver. The jury’s out for me at the moment and he’ll need to work hard in the second half of the season to convince me he is because I’m not seeing what I expect from him at the moment.
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Post by thegrud1 on Jan 3, 2020 12:06:42 GMT
Having seen the young uns early season I think a few of them may come thru....they be physically stronger more experienced...not saying most of them but I think the future will be bright
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Post by OohMac on Jan 3, 2020 13:41:29 GMT
Dont agree with the loans comment white. Perfect world sure you'd take them, they impress and want to stay and do a deal like Diouf, ALF, Ameobi, etc.
But loans allow you to bring in far better quality for cheap. Sturridge, Wilshire, Rodrigo.
Whats the point? Well it means you can uncover a gem who can get you to another level, opening the market for better calibre. They can pass on thier work ethic and what they do to the young players. They can excite fans too. And if the loan club are happy then they can let you have a pick from the next crop.
All for little outgoing.
Did PNE really think Beckham would be at Deepdale or Harry Kane playing in L1 forever?
Give me a good city u21 over Buckley anyday of the week, twice on saturday
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 18:34:52 GMT
To be honest what can we do? we keep going and praying that thing's will get better. Off the field thing's seem to be getting sorted out except the fxcking EFL point's deduction that we are still waiting for, other than that I'm happy to keep paying my money and waiting for the good times to come back. I know we all want Premier League football but it has to be done a bit better than last time were at the end we was giving out contracts that we just could not afford or manage. So if I get a ticket for Rochdale bring it on onwards and upwards COYWM.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 19:38:10 GMT
"I know we all want Premier League football" Do we? Chip do you really want to be the whipping boys of the top Prem clubs? Even Newcastle, a bigger club than us struggle up there. Do you really want to go to having 10 wins in a season at best and hope for 10 draws? Success meaning that you avoided relegation. Sure we had good times in the Prem with BSA et al., but I can't see anyone financing that route any more. Not with being within a stones throw of the Mancs. I'd say the only thing stopping half of Bolton going there is the lousy train service. Personally, playing decent football at a lower level and being competitive does it for me. I'd say at best we are a Championship club. Given our situation and the fact that football is a business, I'd say that for the next decade we are a selling club, if we find the occasional jewel. I'd support BWFC even if they were in the Bostick league, or is it UHU? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 20:33:56 GMT
It’s what nearly all fans want and think there clubs should be trying to achieve but we all know that the gold at the end of the rainbow is only available to at least ten clubs the rest like us would be happy to still be around and maybe this time next year be looking at going up and not down 🤞I was trying to add a positive spin on things but yes I would follow us down as far as we need to go until we can start our long journey back, Bournemouth did it all be it with a Russian billionaire which we haven’t got so we make do and mend 🤷♂️ Onwards and upwards COYWM
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 4, 2020 7:07:52 GMT
Everybody should want to be back in the PL and since we’ve spent most of our history there why shouldn’t we go back. If the likes of Burnley, Bournemouth and Watford can survive there under current conditions then surely so can we. Of course it will take deep pockets and once FV get us onto a stable footing, maybe a new buyer or investor might come in. I don’t accept this premise we are a Championship club, we’re better than that with the right backing. This is a new chapter for us and young supporters will enjoy our rise over the next decade just as we oldies have done in the past. Vive La Bolton.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2020 20:33:20 GMT
I suppose, whites, in days gone by we would want to be in the top flight, but today, what is the point? Abramovitch put 247 million int Chelsea this last year and 26 million went on sacking Conte and his staff.
I've criticized the way football has been ruined, in particular by Abramovitch's tactics at Chelsea. i.e. "buy all the best players" and no one else can have them. "Course the players don't care 'cos he pays them very well. e.g Shawn Wright Phillips. Was a good player at City, went to Chelsea on 60 k a week and disappeared off the face of the earth. At least Danny Drinkwater has been let out on loan.
We can't compete with that and never will be able to. We are cast in the shadow of the Mancs. At one time wives would be dropped off to shop in Bolton Town Centre. Now it's the Trafford Centre and off to see City or Utd.
FV are in it for the money too. They'll sell eventually, but any gems that we find in the academy will be sold and we'll reach Championship level at best and it'll be a good stay if we are competing. Look at Norwich, lots of money a steady club with a good fan base and struggle every time their up there in the Prem.
Is that what you want? Forget BSA, Davies et al. That's history.
You, me and all our age may never even see us reach the Championship. League 2 next year and who knows how many years before we're out of there too.
I for one don't want us to go up to the Prem to be the "St Mirren", or the "Hamilton Accies" of the league. We've never won it anyway and it's never going to happen in our lifetime.
Sooner we just played good football and were competitive in a league were anyone can beat the other and it's not the Prem. We don't have the money to compete and no-one with that kind of brass would dream of buying our club.
247 Million, sheesh, you could buy the whole bleedin' town for that money and Rivington Pike too!
Other than all that VAR is taking the enjoyment out of the game too.
Beautiful game my a**se.
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Post by kenglowhite on Jan 7, 2020 22:57:35 GMT
Makes very depressing reading, wots, and it makes me wonder how Phil Gartside managed to ruin our club which had been brought up from the depths by Bruce and Toddy, After giving myseklf a 10 year leave of absence from Burnden I turned up there one New Years day and saw green shoots which grew and grew for many years. A pity Gartside refused BSA the cash to buy Samuel Eto'o and denied us a place in the European Championship.
However football is cyclical and we have to put our trust for the moment in the FV people, whose ambition reflects those of us who put money into Burnden Leisure and had it stolen from us.
Apart from the formation of the PL one thing sticks out as the cause of the calamity that has happened to football clubs reflecting British towns and that is the Bosman Ruling. I seem to recall this being brought in by a European court. I wonder whether with the coming Brexit it will be one EU rule we can be excluded from. And that would make English football a much happier place.
As for VAR, it is run by possibly the worst freferee I have seen over the last 20 years, one Mike Riley. No wonder so many of the younger refs we see week by week at The Unibol are so bad.....completely reflecting his many useless performances
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 7, 2020 23:21:38 GMT
Crikey wots, I’m surprised you turn up at all with that view. The simple fact is, we have never had the cash to compete with the Man Utd’s, Liverpool and Arsenals but Chelsea were just an average London club before Abramovich took them over, not much different to ourselves really other than being in the Capital. The PL has destroyed our game as we knew it but that’s where we are and it’s not going to change. There are of course similar clubs to us who get into and stay in the PL and even enjoy some success such as Leicester so it can be done. Even Sheffield United are proving that yet they haven’t spent fortunes getting there, or indeed since being there. Why shouldn’t Wanderers get back up there too? Iff you don’t have aspirations of getting to the top then you shouldn’t even start the season. I have no doubt that in 5 to 10 years Wanderers will again be knocking on the door of the PL, assuming it’s still there and I’m not about to take away the hopes for our young fans that we enjoyed so much over the years.
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Post by OohMac on Jan 8, 2020 10:41:54 GMT
I dont think we can say weve spent majority of our time in the elite league whites. Since the premiership rebrand 94 weve had 3 different eras and stayed in for half and thats as successful as weve ever been(as far as i go back, which is not as far as others)
I think you list all the teams in size and stature and I dont think we make the top 20. (Though i hate the my clubs bigger than your club type argument).
I think our natural place in the pecking order would be between 20th and 30th. So if we could get stable championship with a hint of a promotion that would be great.
These clubs Bournemouths and Watfords is rare that they are mainstays. If you are relying on solely on a benefactor your days are numbered. What you need to do is to take investment but invest wisely. They will eventually slow down(abromovic) and even stop altogether and when they do you need to make sure youre self sufficient and have multiple income and a conveyer belt of talent.
So see both sides and think PNE are a good example. Some fans will be tearing thier hair out for some serious investment this Jan to give them the push. Everyone else has had thier time in prem. Brentford and Bristol city too in similar. All knocking on the door and theyve seen teams like Villa and QPR really gamble in Jan and thats paid off whereas theyve kept to thier model and been denied premierleague.
On the flip side why change a good system that is profitable, enjoyable for fans still and still not impossible for them to break through. Doing it the "honest" way.
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 8, 2020 18:06:04 GMT
Most so-called “big clubs” base that claim on gate numbers and obviously the likes of Sunderland, Newcastle, Utd, Arsenal etc are either genuine big clubs or have little or no serious competition for supporters. As we know, we have not only our two Manchester neighbours but also the two Merseyside clubs and all the other clubs in the area across all divisions so whether we could in future exist as a PL team is debatable. Personally I think we can and will with the right ownership. Other than the giants the PL is a fairly transient League anyway so if we can get in the right owner, the right players, there’s no reason we can’t get back up there again.
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