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Post by andyl on Dec 5, 2018 21:56:21 GMT
It's a typically direct and quite brave reply. If I'd been his adviser I might have redacted a few elements lest they return to haunt or have unintended consequences and he makes a number of the points I thought he might and indeed I tried to make re his attendance, openness and fan attributes. But let's make no mistake here the BN and the supporters trust have launched a concerted attack and there are implicit and explicit criticisms and as I offered last week these bring no credit on either. It is a real shame that both are effectively disenfranchised and remote because it devalues their questions perhaps and their analyses when offered most certainly.
Re OoEM's point that is I think what matters to us and seemingly to the economics of BWFC, i.e how can this stultifying and often pointless weekly fare be improved to the extent that more fans turn up and those that do see success but also entertainment that makes them want to return?
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Post by OohMac on Dec 5, 2018 22:46:22 GMT
AndyL, you've said before you've met Ken and found him reasonable and likeable. I've said too that sometimes I see his view and agree with some of his decisions.
Every now and then he says something that doesn't ring true. Here he attacks Marc Iles. He promised Marc an interview for weeks and weeks, cancelled it but then within 2 hours of Marcs more negative comments he's already composed his POV. Had he had the courtesy of an interview with let's face it it's hardly Paxman.
Ken even says Marc has, with some agenda, given player ratings low marks. That's ridicolous. I have a conversion for knowing how well we've played. Take Marcs ratings and minus 3. Or just see what DavidM says.
He will accused Alan Houghton of being disloyal by going to Harvester instead of Whites Hotel next.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 2:19:52 GMT
It's a typically direct and quite brave reply. If I'd been his adviser I might have redacted a few elements lest they return to haunt or have unintended consequences and he makes a number of the points I thought he might and indeed I tried to make re his attendance, openness and fan attributes. But let's make no mistake here the BN and the supporters trust have launched a concerted attack and there are implicit and explicit criticisms and as I offered last week these bring no credit on either. It is a real shame that both are effectively disenfranchised and remote because it devalues their questions perhaps and their analyses when offered most certainly. Re OoEM's point that is I think what matters to us and seemingly to the economics of BWFC, i.e how can this stultifying and often pointless weekly fare be improved to the extent that more fans turn up and those that do see success but also entertainment that makes them want to return? I read your comments last week too Andy. What do you think, that we should do, silence the press?
IMO, Marc is doing a good job reporting and asking pertinent questions of the chairman/owner.
There is a trait of financial difficulties within the club. at admin level and at player level, thus creating a balancing act to avert an admin. workers strike, or even a player's strike (again).
Let's not mention bringing the name of the club in to disrepute.
For some reason you seemingly, seek to defend the person in charge of the purse strings.
Surely, not because you had a friendly conversation with him? Would he remember your name if you met him in Monaco, or would he just ghost you? I can only surmise.
It was not unreasonable for Marc Iles to report the non-payment to the players before the Wigan game and there is no reason for him to not to ask questions now. We, the fans need an answer. I suspect that Marc had info from a leak, from either a member of Admin, or contact with disgruntled player.
Anderson's reaction mentions low point scores for player's assessment on the pitch by Marc. What has this got to do with the financial affairs of the club, except for attacking Marc Iles directly , because of his report? Did he ask about your scores Andy?
Anderson's history with finance speaks for itself, let's make no bones about that. Let's make no bones about the fact that if he invested in this club, then he would be regarded as a hero, not an administrator in all but name, win or lose.
The fans ask no more, but to sit on the sidelines with your 50p investment hoping for the lottery will gain you no friends at all.
BWFC fans don't take fools lightly.
"Enough is enough", the last paragraph in his notes makes me laugh. If he doesn't like the criticism, then get out of the fire! It's a poor man who falls back on his private life (family) when he puts only his own up front when the chips are down.
Pass the club over to a.n.other, reduce the asking price and forever be remembered as the person who stabilized the club during difficult times.
You are a product of today's society Anderson... GREED.
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Post by whitesince63 on Dec 6, 2018 9:39:45 GMT
I think that's a bit harsh Wots. I found some of Kens points acceptable. He did have a tough job to stabilise the club and without pots of money has at least done that to a point. He's also backed Parky pretty well under the circumstances yet Parky in my opinion has let him down. I'm sure he knows this and under different circumstances would probably have changed him but it's clear with little cash and a bonus payment outstanding, that's not going to happen. As for the extra fans he wants, like myself, that's not going to happen unless Parky either changes or is changed and since I don't see either happening, I think he's going to be disappointed. Our only hope is that Ken becomes realistic regarding a sale and can find a buyer. It's easy in circumstances like this to be overly negative and I may be guilty of that myself at times but frustration also kicks in, especially with Parky's performance, so let's hope that there is a Christmas present coming for us. We certainly deserve one.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 11:38:00 GMT
I was a bit harsh on mentioning Andy whites, you're correct. I hate being negative too. I was trying to make the point that Anderson is at the club only for himself and that the only reason for him purchasing the club, even at 50p plus debt of 150k, is to hit the jackpot of 30 million. I have no problem with investment for profit, but he is killing the club as he has no interest in investing any of his own money to take us forward. Maybe he can't, so he should give it up to someone else who can at a lower price.
All he sees is that if he hangs on "long enough" he'll get a bumper pay day. Unfortunately, "long enough" and not taking the club forward is the reason why you decide not to attend games, along with the other 1999 "missing" fans. 'Course he'll spin the BN and ST stories to make him always look like the victim in this. The club is an embarrassment at present and Anderson is not the person to take us anywhere but down. Financially and football wise.
The state of the club at the moment is putting me off football completely. He won't be getting my money on ifollow, that's for sure.
The sooner he's gone, the better.
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Post by andyl on Dec 6, 2018 12:30:44 GMT
I will try to respond to wots' points/questions and then develop the argument
No, I do not know Ken Anderson personally. Our usual travel routes happen to coincide. He won't know my name. I have spoken with him briefly on two or three occasions and with his son, Lee, a little more. I have never discussed the club's or his business. On all occasion either or both have spoken with me about the match seen as fans and at the end of one longer journey I responded to questions about how long I'd been a fan, how far I travelled, where I lived and pleasantries at that sort of level. My only contribution here is that they are genuine football fans, keen for BWFC to do well and open to conversation. Lee is easy to chat to and always says hello. I would add that I've always expressed gratitude for what they have done and are trying to do for' my' BWFC- which was in real risk of administration or even liquidation when they took over.
It is absurd to criticise him for non-attendance. Ken and Lee hardly ever miss a game. Eddie Davies, our greatest benefactor did not attend more. In passing he too attracted lots of criticism late in his ownership and I thought that was horribly unfair and disrespectful. As a further point both Eddie and Ken have taken us closer to the edge than some might because a) they did not want to take any risks in handing over to anyone who might harm the club and b) they both want to stay involved - they like BWFC. I feel those points are incontrovertible.
That said I was worried about the generous, hands-off local benefactor model and the seemingly bottomless pit of money. Previous managerial regimes are answerable for much of what happens now- they and the money grabbing, self serving Premier League culture which called everyone in as treacherously as a Siren. Phil Gartside's two tier model was roundly criticised but financially he had a point. I actually like the fact that the owner does not want to waste his own money and wants if possible to sell at profit. It's a better context for BWFC. However the infrastructure of the club is failing as well as the cashflow. The stadium isn't clean, some fittings need repair and I just hope they have serviced the underfloor heating.
Re Marc Iles and the BN, I don't particularly agree with his match assessments but the problem here is that the BN or Marc or both have seriously fallen out with the management and their obvious linkage with the Supporters Trust lobby does not help. When I reflect on the work of Gordon Sharrock for example it was always more informed, better judged and reflective. here the pressure to have something for every day recycles news. I do not say there is bias in the reporting. I imagine Marc is doing his best but all the supportive comments on his twitter feed are very one sided. Ken is right to point out that many would be critics and commentators are remote from the club. Yes Marc and any good reporter undoubtedly has contacts in the playing and admin staff but do employees always make the best judges of a business's success or the worth of its managers. I just leave that there for those of you who have owned business or managed numbers of employees.
Re my thoughts on the press, that's for a more political forum but I would offer here that I do have reservations about whether elements of the press use their freedoms responsibly or are even thorough in their journalism. This is, I stress not a comment about the BN or Marc Iles who seem to me to do the best they can under difficult circumstances but are just too remote- that may be Ken's fault in part.
OK all of this said there are clearly cashflow difficulties at points in the year. Ken says he pays the players and staff salaries personally when needed. That is hard to reconcile with the notion of not losing money but I imagine that Ken is acting as an overdraft facility and has just enough money to do so. When the EFL money comes in no doubt his outgoings will be refunded maybe even with interest. That is a guess. But if it's accurate it's not a criticism.
And this all leads to my main point that although the current situation is imperfect Ken is what we have got and it's madness to turn on the only benefactor' the club currently has. If he walks away just now it's surely a fast track to administration and liquidation? Or could be? So the BN and ST's attacks are seriously misguided and certainly are not motivated by a love of BWFC.
OK it could all go pear shaped. Ken's tenure may retrospectively be viewed more critically. As per my earlier post I am making no comment whatever re his business acumen , his integrity and his motives. I do think his openness might be counter productive at times but full marks to him for trying.
In terms of team matters there we are on solider ground. I am fed up to the back teeth with the stultifying , losing football I travel to see. I am not a 100% critic of Phil Parkinson and these tactics may save us. I really liked OoEM's caricature of the honest parky it probably was not far off. Wes made a little progress for a while via Oztumer especially but these last three games he has reverted to type and if he thinks these were three good results , whoa! Has he been backed as much as he would like? I doubt many managers would say yes to that. But Oztumer and Doidge and Magennis were his major signings and when he doesn't pick them , rightly or wrongly it is dispiriting and asks questions of his judgment- which it seems to me has occurred to Ken A, reading between the lines?
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Post by kenglowhite on Dec 6, 2018 15:19:51 GMT
AS usual andyl is spot-on. Ken is probably our only hope of survival and it is no use berating his presence as so many are doing. I would offer just one opinion on his latest message issued per the BWFC website. I understand he failed to meet Marc Iles for an interview recently, calling off the meeting without apology or explanation. I think it would have been much better if Ken had kept the appointment and made all the points he has made on the BWFC website in a personal interview with Mardc and the Bolton News. Meanwhile Parky soldiers on in a very unimaginative sort of way. I wish he would introduce one or two of the David Lee squad. Young players rushing around are excellent for team spirit and surprising opposiing managers, and as others have said on here maybe giving them the chance to be spotted and bring in a few more helpful transfer fees. On the other foot, instead of bringing in four or five oldsters, PP might have compounded the spend and brought in one or two for the future, as Blackburn did last year with Bradley Dack.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 15:48:06 GMT
I woudn't exactly say that Andy is spot on. Apparently, as of the a.m. and reported in the BN, the players still hadn't been paid. Andy criticized Marc Iles' timing of the report last week and now we have the same situation again, why? I'm sure that if it was found out that Marc knew of the situation and didn't report it, then he would be lambasted for it. Maybe Anderson, as Parky, has gone as far as he can with the situation. Just a thought. As we all know, whether it's a business, or your household bills, once cash flow stops you're finished. You can't depend on the fans if they don't want to watch.
What next when the loans and tax bills are due?
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Post by riochforthereebok on Dec 6, 2018 17:46:12 GMT
Excellent post Andy and also kenglo On the u23’s a couple of our hidden gems seem to be doing relatively ok at their loan clubs and maybe they could do a bit of a job for us here if they were introduced into the team gently problem is, there’s really that much rot set in all over the playing park for me with the players we have.The quality we have or had, i find myself desperately trying hard to talk up to my work colleagues about Magennis or Doidge, Oz or Alnwick when in truth, they’re all pretty much crap and only League One standard at best!!! What? I’m only being truthful So to put them in for the long haul might be damaging to their development and I wouldn’t wish Phil Parkinson football on anyone of them either.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 20:42:11 GMT
Serious question can the players strike again if yes what would happen to our club ? COYWM
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Post by riochforthereebok on Dec 6, 2018 21:47:34 GMT
As this is the most live of threads I thought I’d change the subject for just a wee second whilst I say
RiP Pete Shelley (Buzzcocks)
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Post by OohMac on Dec 6, 2018 22:01:14 GMT
Love Ken. How dare they accuse me of lying. Wages in? Nope.
If these results don't improve I will take any action necessary? Did they improve? Nope, got worse? Yeah. What did he do? Nothing.
Don't forget Ken that when you put something out there you have to back it up. Is there anyone out there who can do better than Ken? Given that anyone could have taken the club and no one bothered I'd guess not.
For all the criticism he gets anyone with a £1 coin could have stepped up. Ken did.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 22:31:36 GMT
... anyone could have taken the club and no one bothered I'd guess not... ... and therein lies a problem Oom.
Why did no-one decent, in the first instance? Was Eddie too keen to get the club off his books and looked to Holdsworth who obviously didn't have the means? We know the rest.
and
Even now, there is no-one willing to buy for whatever the reason.
Too expensive? Too much debt? Even Leyton Orient found a buyer from Texas. What's wrong with BWFC?
Maybe Anderson should put the club on ebay.
Don't worry about Brexit, we've got our own comedy on and off the pitch.
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Post by one2many on Dec 7, 2018 9:05:32 GMT
I must admit I am finding the off field disputes far more exciting than our football at the moment! Marc Illes and KA b1tch slapping each other through their respective mediums of communication is hilarious!
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Post by thegrud1 on Dec 7, 2018 11:07:46 GMT
I am fully behind Marc Isles,at last saying it as it is...maybe his articles might be the way to get rid at last !
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