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Post by thekraken on Oct 2, 2018 21:01:20 GMT
Harsh decision on Magennis disallowed goal but Butland only had one save to make so not enough going forward. Stoke have some great players and will be in the mix at the end of the season after a slow start.
As someone pointed out on the BN match thread tonight's starting line-up didn't have a single player from the Div 1 promotion side. So a lot of change in a short time and whilst tonight was disappointing we have some better players than when we were promoted.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2018 21:01:50 GMT
Why won't he ever play 2 up front 1-0 down starting to get on top have a perfectly good goal ruled out so it's set up for two up front so what the fxck does he do he takes a striker off then puts another one on I can't work it out so pissed off to gift them three points 🤷♂️🤷♂️
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Post by Alptrotter on Oct 2, 2018 21:11:22 GMT
A disappointing performance tonight in a game that we could easily have got something from. Stoke played with a lot of attacking players which created a bit more room in midfield, but for me too many players reverted to type. Buckley was anonymous as was Wildschut when he replaced him, Grounds was dithering, Noone rather aimless, Magennis uninvolved and we simply made far too many unforced errors ( including the first goal) Like many of the so called better teams in this division, Stoke’s weak point looked to be the defence. Even with our very limited pressure on them, they were by no means perfectly in control.But Magennis needs more support to become effective.
Oz made a difference as we did move the ball well on a few occasions, but we’ll never get anywhere with so many misplaced passes and defensive mistakes. Personally, I wouldn’t put this defeat at Parky’s door. Too many players playing poorly and with bad decision making by both them and the referee ( I thought the disallowed goal harsh and he seemed a bit of a homer) did for us in the end.
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Post by davidm on Oct 2, 2018 21:19:26 GMT
Personally, I wouldn’t put this defeat at Parky’s door. Don't you think that this tactic of surrendering possession and sitting back with the intention of getting a clean sheet and, hopefully, grabbing something on the break is down to the manager? He is the one who tells us to sit back away from home and make little attempt to attack. He is the one who plays Mcgennis on his own with no other player within 20 yards of him. Occasionally it will come off, Derby, but our players aren't good enough not to make mistakes - remember Middlesbrough. He brought both Doidge and Donaldson on late on but still played Donaldson on the right wing. Why? I accept that the referee robbed us of an equaliser but in all fairness, we were totally outplayed - initially caused by sitting back and being ultra negative.
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Post by OohMac on Oct 2, 2018 21:23:33 GMT
I would take your point on board about this not being on Parkys door, he doesnt set the players up to allow free headers.
But this set up definitely has his calling card. It's his style. His way. And next game up he will be wanting the same. And no doubt that disallowed goal pleases him no end as he can blame the ref now.
Would love for our chairman to do a bit of research and speak to fans after the matches. Get on a club coach after Boro, Ispwich and Stoke on a Tuesday night and ask the fans "well what you think of that? Good fun? Can you talk your mates I to coming to the Blackburn game next week. Only £30 a ticket or £120 for 4. Special K promotion."
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 2, 2018 21:57:41 GMT
Well that was just abysmal. Three wingers on show tonight yet not one of them had either the skill, nouse or pace to get round the back of the Stoke defence. We have a young man called Dennis Politic in the development squad who I'm sure would put these three to shame if given a chance. Sadly, instead we have Parky continuing a team and system every week that clearly doesn't work yet never an attempt to change it. How about one winger and two strikers just for a change? There were a couple of glimpses during the second half when we actually passed the ball, looked pretty good and nearly created something which we could build on but sadly Parky destroyed that with his ridiculous and unfathomable changes. Stoke were hardly resolute at the back and putting them under a little more pressure could have brought results. I really do despair of Parkinson and his never ending brand of boreball.
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Post by Alptrotter on Oct 3, 2018 6:34:23 GMT
Personally, I wouldn’t put this defeat at Parky’s door. Don't you think that this tactic of surrendering possession and sitting back with the intention of getting a clean sheet and, hopefully, grabbing something on the break is down to the manager? He is the one who tells us to sit back away from home and make little attempt to attack. He is the one who plays Mcgennis on his own with no other player within 20 yards of him. Occasionally it will come off, Derby, but our players aren't good enough not to make mistakes - remember Middlesbrough. He brought both Doidge and Donaldson on late on but still played Donaldson on the right wing. Why? I accept that the referee robbed us of an equaliser but in all fairness, we were totally outplayed - initially caused by sitting back and being ultra negative. I know it may be difficult to believe, David, but according to the BBC, we had over 40% possession, so I’m not sure we can say that’s the whole story (or even a big part of it) I thought Oztumer was more involved and, as a result, in patches we kept possession and passed better and more threateningly. It’s that word patches that’s the problem. I lost count of the poor and misplaced passes and individual errors in a very much below par team performance. Outplayed or not, but for two crass blunders ( ours for the first goal and the ref’s for the Magennis header) a draw would have been ours. I totally agree, however, that in most games we should set upmore positively. The evidence of my eyes tells me that many Championship sides’ greatest weakness is in defence. We just don’t take sufficient advantage of that.
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Post by Alptrotter on Oct 3, 2018 6:39:07 GMT
Well that was just abysmal. Three wingers on show tonight yet not one of them had either the skill, nouse or pace to get round the back of the Stoke defence. We have a young man called Dennis Politic in the development squad who I'm sure would put these three to shame if given a chance. Sadly, instead we have Parky continuing a team and system every week that clearly doesn't work yet never an attempt to change it. How about one winger and two strikers just for a change? There were a couple of glimpses during the second half when we actually passed the ball, looked pretty good and nearly created something which we could build on but sadly Parky destroyed that with his ridiculous and unfathomable changes. Stoke were hardly resolute at the back and putting them under a little more pressure could have brought results. I really do despair of Parkinson and his never ending brand of boreball. I agree with your point about the wingers, Whites, but don’t you think that they’re being forced to play on the wrong side, so they have to come inside all the time? Parky does that because he sees them as defenders even more than attackers. I’ve long argued that his style of playing two apparent wingers is actually a big problem in our inability to hold possession, to pressure teams in their last third and to score more goals.
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Post by cadders on Oct 3, 2018 9:03:37 GMT
Well having sat on one of the wet seats near the front I had a good view
We couldn't keep the ball (especially the first half) and we barely had more than a two pass movement.Irrespective of how the manager sets the team up he can't be blamed for rank bad passing and poor ball control!In the second half we played with more intensity and strung some good passes together, it looked to me that he went 4 3 3 in the second half. When Donaldson came on he lost the ball nearly every time, one led to the second goal.
The big difference between the teams to me was that Stoke were more physical, they are all big lads who weren't afraid to put their foot in, as opposed to our powder puff tackling. The ref didn't give us much in that sense either so Stoke were encouarged. It reminded me of Bolton when we had Bruno, Jahidi, etc...
The good thing especially in the second half was we threw some caution to the wind and with more luck could have equalised, but we need to take our chances when we only create one or two.
Look at the subs, Stoke bring on Crouch and Mclean we bring on Doidge and Donaldson. You may not like/rate Crouch but I know who I'd prefer at this moment!
Of the few teams I have seen this year Stoke look the best and Rowett did his homework just like he did last year when he was at Derby.
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Post by andyl on Oct 4, 2018 17:47:43 GMT
I wasn't at the game but watched on TV. I just wanted to add to this that the combination of Matthews, Olkowski, Hobbs and Wilson and to a lesser extent Grounds was markedly better at playing passes from the back and out of defence than historically we have seen with Wheater, Beevers and Taylor involved. Of course Matthews had little to do save wise and we let in a set piece header but I've been arguing for this approach for close on a decade in these fora and I was so pleased to see Parky opt for appreciably better footballers. That Matthews' distribution is so much better than Alnwick's, in my opinion, is a major bonus and food for thought in terms of selection.
It is a pity that ahead of them were Williams and Lowe, battlers but players who cannot pass,, in Williams case for toffee. Yet again it's very pleasing to see Oztumer flitting about, playing one twos, moving into space after passing and in general looking to play forward passes when he can. From what I've thus far glimpsed Doidge will be a very good runner for him to play to. I do hope Parky keeps faith in this approach.
Sadly the game lacked tempo and intensity from our point of view and despite this step change in our approach all too often we opted for out of possession marking and gave them too much scope. It was better in the second half as Oztumer came into it.
My one remaining bugbear is the modern ( antiquated?) practice of playing wingers on their wrong feet. Noone and Wildschut almost always cut inside or back and Noone in particular is frustrating forward progress.
I think we are beginning to see Magennis' known limitations- a great worker and endearingly honest in the air and in pursuit of defenders with a turn of speed but not quick footed or direct enough to score very many goals from open play. I do hope that Parky can find a way of playing Magennis with Doidge or maybe Donaldson for greater chunks of games. at present I don't think we possess enough goal threat in open play to force teams back on defence- which we need to do.
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Post by joanna on Oct 5, 2018 7:05:01 GMT
I agree with absolutely all you write here, Andy, especially the points about the wingers. A very thoughtful, intelligent post, though it may be worth saying that Alnwick's shot-saving ability probably trumps Matthews' distribution quality.
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Post by whitesince63 on Oct 5, 2018 10:05:46 GMT
Well that was just abysmal. Three wingers on show tonight yet not one of them had either the skill, nouse or pace to get round the back of the Stoke defence. We have a young man called Dennis Politic in the development squad who I'm sure would put these three to shame if given a chance. Sadly, instead we have Parky continuing a team and system every week that clearly doesn't work yet never an attempt to change it. How about one winger and two strikers just for a change? There were a couple of glimpses during the second half when we actually passed the ball, looked pretty good and nearly created something which we could build on but sadly Parky destroyed that with his ridiculous and unfathomable changes. Stoke were hardly resolute at the back and putting them under a little more pressure could have brought results. I really do despair of Parkinson and his never ending brand of boreball. I agree with your point about the wingers, Whites, but don’t you think that they’re being forced to play on the wrong side, so they have to come inside all the time? Parky does that because he sees them as defenders even more than attackers. I’ve long argued that his style of playing two apparent wingers is actually a big problem in our inability to hold possession, to pressure teams in their last third and to score more goals. I agree entirely Alp, at least if we're going to play wingers they should be encouraged to get round the back of defenders and put crosses in to the likes of Mags, Doidge and Donaldson, as well as our other players coming through. The problem is as you say, Parky doesn't play them as proper wingers at all and therein lies the problem.
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