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Post by OohMac on Jan 15, 2017 14:00:50 GMT
Said for a long time we've papered over cracks. We've got a good foundation and fair play to PP for installing a solid back bone to the team. But it's so rigid. It's not entertainment it's just a clinical results business.
Football is about goals. We Should have killed the game by scoring them and we got punished because they took their chances.
After looking at the league table and form guide I was angry yesterday. We Should be burying these teams but on reflection these days will come. I think the two teams ahead of us are a lot better and personally the prospect of Championship football with this squad isn't very appealing.
One thing though Parky. Not sure about the wage agreement we have with Palace but Anderson use him or send him packing. Get rid of him and ' Proccy' and Bring a scorer in. Samizadeh if there's not the funds
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Post by thegrud1 on Jan 15, 2017 14:50:09 GMT
Very dissappointed to say the least. Clough looks leggy ,,,,needs a rest Madine/Proctor both offer no goals Henry...promises to deliver but doesnt Spearing,,,his corners were awful Thorpe....doesnt offer anything going forward...play derike please Wilson ...ok going forward,but can can caught defensively The team......very workmanlike in a poor league. The reason we are near the top is not due to us being a *good* team its that the other teams are poor. If by a miracle we beat Palace I really fear for us against Man City
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 15, 2017 15:22:11 GMT
Said for a long time we've papered over cracks. We've got a good foundation and fair play to PP for installing a solid back bone to the team. But it's so rigid. It's not entertainment it's just a clinical results business. Football is about goals. We Should have killed the game by scoring them and we got punished because they took their chances. After looking at the league table and form guide I was angry yesterday. We Should be burying these teams but on reflection these days will come. I think the two teams ahead of us are a lot better and personally the prospect of Championship football with this squad isn't very appealing. One thing though Parky. Not sure about the wage agreement we have with Palace but Anderson use him or send him packing. Get rid of him and ' Proccy' and Bring a scorer in. Samizadeh if there's not the funds Agree totally OM on Anderson, what is the point of keeping him if he's never going to figure? With our financial restrictions we just can't afford players who won't contribute. We desperately need a goal scorer, surely everyone can see that? We know we're stuck with Proctor, Madine and our other permanent players but surely loanees need to be contributing or else replaced. It seems our one successful loanee, Ameobi, has been returned due to financial issues whilst Anderson, Thorpe and Henry, all questionable are retained. Surely Parkinson knows by now our urgent need is a striker so what on earth is stopping us at least trying to recruit someone instead of these three, or at least try something different with what we do have and are paying for? Maybe playing without Madine and Thorpe's up and unders questions Parky's direct doctrine and he's uncomfortable with actual football. We certainly see precious little of it.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Jan 15, 2017 19:39:54 GMT
Look at Vaughan at Bury, he knows where the onion bag is, problem is tho at Bolton, you could have Ibrahimovic and Aguero at the ReeMac but when you look at our wing play, midfield and overall creativity, it's non existent
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Post by andyl on Jan 15, 2017 20:33:48 GMT
Credit to PP for having found a way of playing that took us close to the top of the division. No team ever wins all the time. Yesterday was disappointing but it was not like v Oxford. In that first haf we battled , won nearly evry first and second challenge and the likelihood of Swindon scoring was very remote. We meanwhile opened up with two good chances and continued to make progress especially down Taylor's side. It was however a day wheen nearly all crosses were mishit, set piece kicks seldom cleared the first man and when we got past them which we regualarly did the final ball was either wild or easily intercepted. At times good shooting chances were spurned in favour of passes to no one. Some of this is down to our tactcis being sussed. Very obviously Clough when dribbling through was shown on to his left foot. Three good shooting chances fell to him on that side and he either mishit or avoided the lot.
Madine as mentioned above was cruelly exposed. We first saw him receive the ball in oceans of space about 25 yards out. He froze,was overtaken and looked for a soft foul rather than shooting. In thge second half a good cut back for once found him unmarked in the D but by the time he lifted his right foot to shoot, the earth had moved on its axis, players had made up yards to block him and he ended up stumbling weakly on to his left foot and firing a shot into the bodies. A little later a good cross found him on the far post but he was up early, leaning back and basically all wrong for it. He just isn't a striker. Yes he might head the odd ball in if perfect delivery finds him in the goal box- Vela and Spearing v Gillingham but with yesterday's service levels he was lost. And yes he won his fair share of long punts and yes he nodded one or two sideways and to Taylor or Clough and his chest work is excellent. But if we do get upfield on the flanks he cannot kjeep up and he has the turning circle of a large ocean liner. In games like that he cannot succeed alone.
It is small wonder Wilson's marks deteriorated. After at times quite excellent chasing and tackling from Ameobi which had enabled him to play his game he had Henry in front offering no cocver, far too easily passed and wandering all over the place and only covering back occasionally and then the inside space forcing Wilson wider. Henry does offer something going forward and he will shoot. Good. But if he is to play PP must revisit his system. Up to a point his insistence on Thorpe as a tackler helps but as we saw yesterday when he was removed they counter attacked through us at will. And the four men up front started just about all their counter attacks much as Feeney and Silva used to do last year and Eagles before them. Henry played some very unintelligent passes towards the end.
OK so we know that Madine is not Ibrahimovic and Henry is not Hazard but if we look at recent history we had a very good left attacking midfielder, Alonso who his wise managers either didn't play or perched at left back. He had injury and other tragic problems with us but who amongst us is surprised that he is scoring for Chelsea and earned £27m. Even before that we had Australian Aaron Mooy who is now rated at £10m and the brains of Huddersfield's midfield. In the BN Forum days I remembner well arguing for him to be tried. Other s would and di argue the case after injury of Djemaili. The point of these referneces and reminders is that now we have another such investment in Derik. I'll stick my neck out here. I think he is an excellent player, reasonable at centre half, hopeless at full back but excellent in defensive midfield. In his one recent appearance he sparked Trotter and Ameobi into the movements that inititated a three goal fusillade v Port Vale. PP put him at centre back when he could have used Thorpe there and so he slipped down the pecking order. He's young, makes positional mistakes and loses concentration- I see that but he's a class apart from Thorpe and I think he has to play?? And I think that one day he could have a £10m pricetag whereas Thorpe will only ever be a Div 1 or maybe championship player.
I don't think the Swindon result should knock us too far off course but the team does need to develop. Pratley at this level at his best could be very useful but we will need a different formation to accommodate him. And I've said before if we are going aerially hopefully for controlled phases of play why not put Proctor up alongside Madine for phases of play, It worked well at Wimbledon. As a replacement for Madine Proctor is clumsy, concedes too many fouls and just looks second best but we have seen some excellen time wasting skills and he did get to the bye line for Trotter's goal at Wimbledon. Go for it PP. In critical away games as at Southend we might just rattle them.
Maybe Ameobi can yet return. He was one of our two sparks with Clough. Unpredicatble he could rattle out five successive missed passes as v Sheff Utd in the cup but he was always doing something good or bad at pace and with flair. But if not we need someone who can noffer something similar without being a defensive disaster in our current formation. If we change formation just maybe Henry could be effective eg in a 4-3-3 or aq 4-5-1 but in this current set up I doubt he'll get Wilson's vote,
And what about Moxey played by Neil Lennon in left midfield and doing really well and with a very good shot. Moxey has been rightly surpassed by taylor at left back- much solider, better on the ball and good on the overlap....but not as good attacking as Moxey. I know Clough is being hidden out there and it has worked for a while but he has been sussed, Clayton is unfit for more than 10 mins so could we strengthen that left side properly and use Clough and Clayton more centrally
It may of course be that we could play three at the back..It risks defensive stability but if our problem is winning a place for someone to support Madine then maybe the economy is there
And of course there is the enigma of Trotter. Who can play with him?Last year v Rotherham he came on at half time and changed the game after a first half not dissimilar to that v Swindon. Can he be found a niche where he can be effective. Played alongside Thorpe at peterborough it was awful- too slow- too negative. And with Spearing he's shown up and can be quite lost- awful at Coventry.. but he has something has a good pass in him and can dribble through defences. Can PP get a rocket into him.
It seems to me that the very best managers in business and sport and the very best captains have a sixth sense of when to make changes, when to freshen things up, when to make subs and they don't just try to hang on to something that once worked. Can PP do this.
Anyway I went into the Swindon game in a good mood thanks to seeing La La Land on Friday and I find that after the first few hours of Saturday evening the good feelings and optimism that excellent film created have returned. I think we can win at Southend and I think good use of Derik, Trotter, Moxey, Pratley and or Proctor could just get us a win. This may suggest that I remain in La La Land but I am not so inexorably there that I think hoofing the ball to Madine and keeping the same team will do the business in this most challenging of months!
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 16, 2017 11:22:35 GMT
Brilliant post Andy, I agree with all of that long, but very readable comment. Unfortunately PP is not one of those managers you quote who is open minded. We've seen that constantly with his complete refusal to try something different, favouring the Thorpe punt to Madine over any of the other many available options. I do think your appreciation of our first half performance last Saturday was a lot more positive than I saw it but maybe if any of the chances had been taken things may have ended differently. If we are to stay in the promotion race Parky has to do something up front because Madine is just a passenger in my opinion. Obviously finances will dictate but let's hope there is an opportunity to at least bring back Ameobi and possibly a striker like ALF as well by moving out some of our finge players and none used loans.
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Post by joanna on Jan 16, 2017 11:51:02 GMT
Lots of good ideas and sense there, Andy. (Particularly about La La Land which evidently had the same uplifting effect on you as on us......though we were left with moist eyes and conflicting emotions at the realistic ending. Surely, surely it will win Oscars. Films do not need gory violence, sci-fi, fantasy, car chases and scary action to make us FEEL!!! Great acting to convey such chemistry, fabulous music and dancing, perfectly judged script. How do great actors convey such emotion simply with their eyes?! As I say, a film to make its audience FEEL.)
Back on topic!.....almost too many ideas in Andy's post for PP to take on board even if he were to read footy forums! Pratley (and eventually, next season, Mark Davies) would add to our effectiveness. You are so right about Derik, and we must find a way to get Ameobi back to rid us of the pedestrian, predictable approach play which will scupper our chances of promotion. Above all, we must somehow add pace and a goalscorer to our squad. I'm glad, Andy, that you are finally seeing that the lumbering Trotter would not be the answer, especially given the make-up of the rest of our current squad. Our best performances have been when we are switched-on enough to release our front-runners quickly.
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Post by joanna on Jan 16, 2017 12:07:13 GMT
Sorry, whitesince 63, I hadn't read your post before writing mine, but we seem to be mostly in accord....so why can't PP see what we can?
I'd like to see what our tactics would be like if we didn't have a big man up front at all. Would we play a quicker passing game to suit Clough, Vela and Clayton? Madine needs a partner to play off his knock-downs and none of our squad suits this role.
At the moment, Madine's inclusion seems to be dictating how we play, a bit the same as how some fans felt when we used SKD.....not that I ever agreed with that criticism, partly because SKD was streets ahead of Madine in terms of ability, and in any case BSA varied his tactics better in order to use the fabulous skills of our midfield. To some extent, PP's options are limited by the poor overall talents of the rest of the squad.
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Post by andyl on Jan 16, 2017 12:56:35 GMT
I think many a bwfc fan lives in La La Land. . If Deano had hit the open goal v Villa. If Stu H had never met Johnny Evans etc. I just think forward momentum requires a bit of imagination.
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Post by whitesince63 on Jan 17, 2017 12:35:43 GMT
Sorry, whitesince 63, I hadn't read your post before writing mine, but we seem to be mostly in accord....so why can't PP see what we can? I'd like to see what our tactics would be like if we didn't have a big man up front at all. Would we play a quicker passing game to suit Clough, Vela and Clayton? Madine needs a partner to play off his knock-downs and none of our squad suits this role. At the moment, Madine's inclusion seems to be dictating how we play, a bit the same as how some fans felt when we used SKD.....not that I ever agreed with that criticism, partly because SKD was streets ahead of Madine in terms of ability, and in any case BSA varied his tactics better in order to use the fabulous skills of our midfield. To some extent, PP's options are limited by the poor overall talents of the rest of the squad. I think it's just Parky's football beliefs that he prefers the direct route joanna so it's unlikely he'll change to a completely different style, as we've already seen. To be honest it wouldn't surprise me if it was another big man Parky's looking for and not ALF at all but time will tell. If it is then hopefully it will be someone who has a proven goal scoring record and not just another big useless lump like Madine. Who knows, maybe we can loan Madine out too, or am I hoping for too much???😉😉
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