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Post by greydad on Sept 17, 2016 7:18:22 GMT
Two firsts today, my first thread, and my first visit to Walsall....in over 40 years of watching the Whites I have never managed to get there. It looks from the Bolton News report that Thorpe is in line to replace Spearing, so those of us hoping to see Derik start may have to wait...it will be interesting to see who starts up front, I would assume Procter will continue, but as to who will partner him it remains to be seen. Will Anderson remain in favour, or will Ameobi get a start? Will Clough be on the bench after having a week's training behind him.....if he is fit he must be in the squad, surely? Despite Buxton's patchy game last week I would expect the back four to be unchanged, Taylor didn't offer as much going forward as Moxey but was solid defensively... midfield will probably continue as before , albeit with the enforced change due to Spearing's absence. Despite the missing players there remains a squad capable of getting a result today, there will be plenty of support so let's hope the Bolton fans are the ones smiling at the end of the game.
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Post by one2many on Sept 17, 2016 8:35:09 GMT
1-1 seems to be the result of choice at the moment. I'll go for that.
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Post by davidm on Sept 17, 2016 9:10:11 GMT
Two firsts today, my first thread, and my first visit to Walsall....in over 40 years of watching the Whites I have never managed to get there. It looks from the Bolton News report that Thorpe is in line to replace Spearing, so those of us hoping to see Derik start may have to wait...it will be interesting to see who starts up front, I would assume Procter will continue, but as to who will partner him it remains to be seen. Will Anderson remain in favour, or will Ameobi get a start? Will Clough be on the bench after having a week's training behind him.....if he is fit he must be in the squad, surely? Despite Buxton's patchy game last week I would expect the back four to be unchanged, Taylor didn't offer as much going forward as Moxey but was solid defensively... midfield will probably continue as before , albeit with the enforced change due to Spearing's absence. Despite the missing players there remains a squad capable of getting a result today, there will be plenty of support so let's hope the Bolton fans are the ones smiling at the end of the game. I think you're right on the line up. Thorpe in place of Spearing. I don't think that the manager rates Derik, as yet. Other than that, I expect the same side.
This will be my 3rd visit to Walsall. A 3-1 (after extra time) win in the League Cup. That was Anelka's first goal for us. Then a 2-0 defeat in one of Big Sam's first games in charge. A certain Michael Ricketts scored for them.
Looking forward to today. Although we are not the most stylish side and certainly not the best goalscorers, I always think that we can win each match in this division,, so a 2-1 win for me.
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Post by greydad on Sept 17, 2016 9:26:17 GMT
I feel optimistic for a win too, the omens looked good as I left the house..2 magpies on the fence opposite, Motor-cycle Emptiness on the radio and the sun shining...what can possibly go wrong???
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Post by OohMac on Sept 17, 2016 14:00:15 GMT
Always thought Anelkas 1st was that screamer against Arsenal. Shame it wasn't.
Time for both Taylor's to shape up.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Sept 17, 2016 14:48:18 GMT
I feel optimistic for a win too, the omens looked good as I left the house..2 magpies on the fence opposite, Motor-cycle Emptiness on the radio and the sun shining...what can possibly go wrong??? Indeed.... FFS one man less and they go on and score Goal scorer needed ASAP
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Post by OohMac on Sept 17, 2016 15:34:47 GMT
Sounds obvious but this side just isn't scoring enough goals. At this level we should be targeting 2 a game minimum. Other clubs with less so called quality are capable of scoring at will.
Not just the strikers but the whole system just isn't working, said that PP was a Dougie Freedman Mark 2 and that was when we were winning. No Samizadeh either? Can anyone tell me what that's about? He's not 15! We've not got a goalscorer in the ranks. Why not give him half an hour
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Post by riochforthereebok on Sept 17, 2016 15:38:58 GMT
Well done Tom Eaves we could do with you at this moment
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 16:27:36 GMT
We are so desperate for a striker it's un-real how can we not score against ten men and what the hell is he doing bringing Moxey on when we need a goal. This has got to be the honeymoon period over I know we are not going to win or draw all games but please to lose to a team that have not won in six is a joke. OK so we are still second but that's 3 point's from 12 still only Bradford to come next.
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Post by riochforthereebok on Sept 17, 2016 16:58:56 GMT
A point in front of Bury after 8 games when it once looked like we were going to storm this league. Far too many easy points dropped but I still have hope COYWM
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Post by OohMac on Sept 17, 2016 17:27:51 GMT
Have no hope. The games we won we did do by the odd goal and absorbed loads of pressure.
Apart from the Southend game we were lucky to get the draws when we did.
Today we played 10 men and got beaten without any real urgency.
Ok davies, Pratley Clough and Clayton are out but that's not going to change. We have fallen into the habit of brining poorer players in an attempt to improve the squad. As we have done for 4 years now.
Both Taylor's, especially Chris are useless.
Sorry but think in this rigid Dougie Freedman system we are up for a lot more frustrating Saturday afternoons.
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Post by andyl on Sept 17, 2016 18:00:36 GMT
You may wonder quite how Bolton managed to lose to ten men after the early and rather harsh dismissal of a Walslall player. The truth sadly is that they could probably have withdrawn another player and still beaten us so abject were we. The statistics may show that we had a lot of corners and we had a couple cleared off the line, a header on to the crossbar, a good shot from Taylor in the second half and best of all a really magnificent save was needed to deny Proctor a goal from a deftly placed cross shot after one of our few moves. And they didn't threaten goal at all. But for all that they pressed our defenders and totally dominated midfield where a couple of small, even tiny midfielders made our players look cumbesome and awkward throughout.
In some ways we played our best when they were at eleven. And if we were not so poor at heading we might well have converted two good crosses from C Taylor. But Proctor cannot head properly and Henry I think missed. In addition Wheater and Beevers both had good heading opportunities in both halves but never looked capable of converting them.
A significant deficiency amongst many is that we have no ball carriers in midfield or indeed anywhere so there was nothing to tire the ten men of Walsall and if thoretically we had Taylor and Henry wide at times and Ameobi also, no one stayed wide and none ran at pace. In fact none ran at all very much. Time and time again Trotter received the ball from defence and either passed it backwards or to a wide player facing backwards. It wasn't all Trotter's fault as noone was running for the ball ahead of him but he didn't play with any zest or energy. In fact he and Vela were dreadfully slow in all they did.
That we went behind was down to a stupid free kick concession ( Vela)-one of many and a complete misjudgment by Howard who came out , didn't get anywhere near the ball ( and it should have been an easy catch or punch). To me the ball seemed to ricochet off one of our players and loop goalwards for a forward to complete the formalities. Apparently it just hit Beevers. It ought to have been an own goal really because in essence that's what it was.
At half time Clough was introduced and he did do a couple of neat tricks and finished our only fluent move with a strong shot into the side netting.
We pressed forward. Anderson was introduced only to get an immediate caution because Taylor had not left the field- assistant could have stopped him as could coaching staff. Fans got at the referee but there was nothing he could do but caution him- it's a rule and he would be marked down if he didn't. The referee ws an older referee and abit lumbering. A faster ref might have got across and intercepted him but Anderson should know the rules. And of course having been booked he should know better than to give the ref a mouthful after an obvious foul chasing back a breakaway..so we won't have him next week and on this showing at no loss really
Overall it was just a poor, lethargic perfomance and there was no creativity or invention just an endless succession of long hoofs, for the most part inaccurate and overhit. Moxey came on and brought some real momentum going forward and his long throw..and in so doing showed up the rest really. Our full backs are a sorry pair both defensively and certainly going forward. Taylor did get forward once or twice but not at speed. I'm afraid we were very disappointing today and the alarm bells which have sounded at our most recent games reached a crescendo today. This is not a promotion team. Spearing and Pratley might in due course help but we just don't have enough pace and aggression upfront and we lack class. Madine I'm concerned to say is a lot better than the others and unless Clough and Clayton join the party positively so it may remain
Howard 2 (awful today) Buxton 3 Wheater 5 Beevers 5 A Taylor 4 Vela 2 Trotter 4 C Taylor 4, Henry 5 Proctor 6 Ameobi 2 ( dreadful)l and disinterested and maybe out of position). Anderson 0 Clough 5 Moxey 6 (I think he did pretty well for ten minutes)
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Post by davidm on Sept 17, 2016 18:33:07 GMT
This was a terrible result.
We played against 10 men for 60+ minutes, totally dominated the second half but never really looked like scoring. Yes, we had some mad scrambles and their goalie had a worldy performance but we are just not a goal-scoring team.
We started with what looked like a 4-2-4. Henry and Chris Taylor wide with Proctor and Ameobi up front. It then changed when Ameobi drifted deeper and second half we only had 3 at the back when Clough replaced Buxton.
The ref was terrible. AndyL – I need you to defend him please.
We started OK. Steady but contained Walsall easily. I couldn’t tell whether the sending off was justified. Taylor certainly was whacked. We then had 60 odd minutes to play against 10 men.
We had 4 headed chances in the first half. Henry headed just wide, as did Proctor and Taylor and Beevers (I think) had a bullet header blocked on the line. But we were not playing that well. Dominating but just not looking like scoring. No passing of any sort.
The ref then gave them a free kick after he had waved play on and Buxton had won the ball with a good tackle. The first tackle by Taylor was a foul but he played on and Buxton did really well to win it only for the ref to pull it back. Anyway, no problem – an easy enough free kick to defend. Or so I thought. Howard made an absolute mess of the ball in. He went for it, didn’t reach it and the ball deflected into open space practically onto the goal for an easy tap-in.
Rest of the half, we were hopeless. We lost all shape.
Second half Clough came on and we dominated. But it was all mad scrambles – no real quality football. Their goalies made many quality saves. If we had swapped goalies, we would have won easily.
Anderson came on as sub for Chris Taylor but because Taylor hadn’t gone off before Anderson came on, the ref booked him. This despite the fact that the fourth official sent him on. Crazy ref. Then in the last minute, he booked Anderson and sent him off for the most innocuous foul. Definitely not a booking.
It didn’t really matter because by this stage, we were beaten.
After their sending-off, Walsall put all 10 men behind the ball and invited us to attack but all we do was to lump high balls forward.
A really disappointingly poor performance. Five games now without a win.
Our problems are clear:-
- We will always concede a goal each game, - We cannot score enough to win - We do not have enough craft and skill to create chances
I recall some comments made from Bradford fans that we might win games but the football would be drab high balls. This was a game of many many hopeful (hopeless) high balls and we lost.
Howard - 5 Terribly at fault for the goal. Nothing else really to do. His kicking is still awful.
Buxton - 6 Subbed at half time. Didn’t do too much wrong but some form of substitution was needed.
Beevers - 6 Got in Howard’s way for the goal and effectively deflected it into their player’s path. Other than that, too much passing (messing about!) at the back.
Wheater - 6 Solid enough but it seems that he and Beevers now have to start all our attacks and it finishes up big-boot.
Taylor A - 5 Too many poor passes and centres. In the second half, he wasted 3 promising moves with awful centres.
Trotter - 6 He got dog’s-abuse from a man behind me all through the first half. He did tend to be too deep and pass sideways but was far from the worst. Second half he improved.
Taylor C - 4 Oh dear. I do not see what he brings to the team. He had one cracking shot in the second half which the goalie saved well but really, he is no good.
Henry - 5 Started hopefully but just got lost in the congested pitch.
Vela - 5 Disappointing. Could not influence the side positively.
Ameobi - 4 Airy-fairy. A few twists and turns but a total waste of time.
Proctor - 5 Ran his heart out. Won a few good headers. Goalie, again, made a wonder save from him. I keep saying this – he is not a natural goalscorer.
Clough - 6 Started brightly but had little help.
Anderson - 5 Nothing apart a couple of needless fouls, the second of which he got sent off for.
Moxey Only got a few minutes but crossed the ball much better than Taylor.
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Post by greydad on Sept 17, 2016 20:07:52 GMT
I asked (light-heartedly) earlier 'What could go wrong', and the answer was just about everything...an increasingly pedestrian first half was frustrating in the extreme,with the Whites unable to make the extra man count, in fact they struggled for any semblance of fluency. I too felt sorry for Trotter, his default languid demeanour was made to look worse by the complete lack of running ahead of him, and he did indeed improve in the second half...he was easily our best passer of the ball today, and he had to play deeper when Vela moved to full back. As has been said, statistics might show an imbalance of shots and corners in the White's favour, but the few genuine chances created were spurned. The letter of the law may have applied to Anderson's first booking, but it surely falls under Mr Beadle's assertion that 'The law is an Ass'...I felt that the ref was over-keen to brandish cards. When no player is worthy of anything more than 6 out of 10, and most deserve less, there is no chance of winning a game, and little chance of drawing..some hard thinking about formation and tactics needs to be done if a team can be selected that is capable of putting in a performance against Bradford next week. It is still early days, the team remains in a strong position in the league but the inability to match, let alone better a team down to 10 men for so long was extremely disappointing.
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Post by andyl on Sept 17, 2016 20:40:44 GMT
Re the referee,Davidm, I felt that he struggled throughout to keep up with play and was not completely as one with his team, overruling a throw in once when further away and personally admitting Clough to the field after half time. I do think the Anderson first booking was not managed well by the assistant but we all know the rules. The referee issued a correct caution. I'm pretty sure the dismissal was for the dissent not the foul. An earlier yellow to Taylor was again for dissent. Some of this reflects the manager's foolish criticisms of referees. We appeal too much especially Proctor and we argue too much.
I thought the referee got mostly got the free kick decisions correct and played the advantage well eg for the free kick which led to the goal. He pulled play back for the first foul. He did that more than once. I think he got the corners and goal kicks right. There were really few major decisions wrong. I do think that viewed at the time the Walsall player did not deliberately elbow Taylor and I think that should have been yellow and will think so unless replay proves otherwise. I also think that we had a good penalty shout in added time when Ameobi was pushed. If he concluded that he dived he could have booked him.
So all in all I think the referee was a bit pedestrian and at times a bit authoritarian but to criticise him overly would be unfair and distract from the poverty of our play. I think the referee had at least as good a game as any of our players did and that's not saying much!
Re Trotter in some ways he was one of our better players and he got forward a couple of times but for me today he just didn't do enough that was positive and he was too easily passed by and there was no end product. He should play further forward.
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