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Post by megsontilidie on May 19, 2016 19:02:21 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36335384" English football could be heading for its biggest shake-up since the creation of the Premier League in 1992. The Football League wants to create an extra division with 20 teams in each from 2019-20. It would mean England had 100 teams in five divisions, up from 92. Currently, there are 24 teams in the Championship, League One and League Two. The Football League says the move would tackle fixture congestion and boost the finances of its members. The Premier League and the Football Association have backed the proposal "in principle"."i've no real problems with it. 3 fewer home games for season ticket holders. would there be proportionate reductions in prices ? would fewer games means slightly smaller squads could be carried by clubs so savings could be made there. just as well it's not happening next season or it might increase the chances of us being in Div 4 the season after.
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Post by riochforthereebok on May 19, 2016 20:16:32 GMT
Unless your in the Prem there's no serious money on offer in football in the lower leagues and as football clubs are regularly sailing close to the wind (Portsmouth Bolton Blackburn Leicester once) can the finances on offer make much difference to having a fifth league??
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Post by OohMac on May 20, 2016 7:13:49 GMT
I'm not sure for the reasoning behind this, doesn't make too much sense. Fixture congestion? Never seen it as an issue. I like the Tuesday night fixtures even as armchair fan. I don't trust that the big pot of money will still go to Premiership clubs whilst it gets sieved down the leagues, League 5 would be a pretty poor standard with some better teams. With less games there would be less programmes, pints, pies sold plus advertising and sponsorship and reduced ticket revenue. Plus the 20 team premiership was wrapped up and nothing to play for. Every year the championship is close and this year a straight shootout that went to the last kick of the game.
More should be and needs to be done about club ownership with a real Financial fair play started. A real sticking point for me was the parachute payments. Designed to give clubs extra time to readjust but we peed it up the wall giving silly contracts to people instead of trying to steady the ship.
I think, and I don't really know what goes on, but there should be a liaison officer at the football league dedicated to one area who looks at the budget at the start, the wage bill, the income we get and then has the authority to place a temporary embargo, or can apply for a help fund or work to offload those players so that clubs are always close to the budget as possible.
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Post by realtrottersforever on May 20, 2016 8:31:09 GMT
I don't see the point of this idea at all. All it will do is enable the top teams to get richer and teams in the lower divisions to get poorer by virtue of spreading whatever income is available thinner. Clubs in the lower reaches of the football league are already struggling giving them less game income etc etc can only makes things worse, unless the premier league intends giving up some of their wealth. Fat chance of that!
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Post by davidm on May 20, 2016 10:38:00 GMT
"The Football League says the move would tackle fixture congestion and boost the finances of its members."
How does reducing the number of matches boost the finances?
What fixture congestion do we have? Are they looking to get rid of midweek matches?
We already have a fifth division. It is called the National League!
Stupid stupid idea. Which fans have they consulted on this?
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Post by OohMac on May 20, 2016 11:27:07 GMT
When you know as much about everything as Greg Dyke does you don't need to consult anyone.
Even putting football aside what about the businesses around the stadium who use the midweek matches to boost business. Ok for us its The Harvester and another chain pub but other clubs have local pubs, cafes's, who need this.
I haven't yet found any positives as its never really been clear how we'll all be boosted.
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Post by davidm on May 21, 2016 9:19:37 GMT
The so-called benefits according to the Football League are:-
1. The importance of each individual fixture will increase; 2. Reduced travel costs to four games which are often at a distance; 3. Midweek travel for fans vastly reduced; 4. Potential to reduce squad size; 5. Increased importance of reserve team football; 6. Enhanced recovery time/match preparation; 7. Increase in sale of season tickets due to reduction in midweek games; 8. Increased profile on League One, Two & Three at different stages of the season; 9. Statistically greater chance of promotion (and relegation); 10. At least six new Clubs (30%) to play each season; 11. No relegation out of the Football League in 2018/19; 12. Different formats for the Football League Trophy available; 13. Opportunity to standardise promotion/relegation.
I find it hard to understand many of the above.
Can anyone explain point 7 to me – “Increase in sale of season tickets due to reduction in midweek games”. The plan will result in no midweek matches for League 1 clubs. Is that good? So more people will buy season tickets because there are no midweek matches.
I just don’t get it.
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Post by riochforthereebok on May 21, 2016 10:52:20 GMT
When you know as much about everything as Greg Dyke does you don't need to consult anyone. Even putting football aside what about the businesses around the stadium who use the midweek matches to boost business. Ok for us its The Harvester and another chain pub but other clubs have local pubs, cafes's, who need this. I haven't yet found any positives as its never really been clear how we'll all be boosted. Just adding to that Oom In the good old days of football and games at Burnden in general, the 'community' would take their packet of fags and go for an afternoon pint in the King Bill then stroll over the road having had a good sesh to watch the Wanderers and it not break the bank, but by contrast to today's offerings, the smoking ban, the £4 pint, the £15 meal, the £3.50 programme, the lifeless and atmosphere'less stadium we now sit in, the poor quality football in less glamorous surroundings we frequent, ummmm!!! It's all a bit MEN Arena for me Wish we could go back to the days of the power of supporters!! Just my opinion of course
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Post by megsontilidie on May 21, 2016 16:38:35 GMT
The so-called benefits according to the Football League are:- 1. The importance of each individual fixture will increase; 2. Reduced travel costs to four games which are often at a distance; 3. Midweek travel for fans vastly reduced; 4. Potential to reduce squad size; 5. Increased importance of reserve team football; 6. Enhanced recovery time/match preparation; 7. Increase in sale of season tickets due to reduction in midweek games; 8. Increased profile on League One, Two & Three at different stages of the season; 9. Statistically greater chance of promotion (and relegation); 10. At least six new Clubs (30%) to play each season; 11. No relegation out of the Football League in 2018/19; 12. Different formats for the Football League Trophy available; 13. Opportunity to standardise promotion/relegation. I find it hard to understand many of the above. Can anyone explain point 7 to me – “Increase in sale of season tickets due to reduction in midweek games”. The plan will result in no midweek matches for League 1 clubs. Is that good? So more people will buy season tickets because there are no midweek matches. I just don’t get it. would be interesting to see the stats for midweek attendances compared to sat'day ones. they must be lower. there are so many midweek ones in the Ch'ship that you might be put off if you work ( i.e not retired) and do have to travel a decent distance to get to home games. or of course long distance away games midweek must be difficult. it'd be interesting to hear the views of those that do go away fairly regularly..like Andy L. and of course not living locally, that affects him for home games too. plus there's the other side of the coin..every home game for us, is an away game for others..they will bring less to our midweek games too..reducing our income. obviously getting relegated has a far bigger impact on that anyway ! plus there's either kids going to games or people with young kids to think about. anyone in Primary school, might be expected to be in bed for say, 9 to 9.30 pm. that's simply impossible with our standard 8pm kick offs. and then there's the general pricing issue. less games, means cheaper season tickets. looks what many food companies do with their products..shrinkage www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3037688/Shrinkflation-sneaky-firms-making-favourite-products-smaller-NOT-shrinking-price.htmlthey might not be any cheaper per game, but if the overall bundle is more friendly on the wallet, fans can be considered to get some small kind of benefit.
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Post by andyl on May 22, 2016 20:44:21 GMT
I think that I it all makes good sense. I do like midweek games- the spectacle- especially when these were big games. Broadly I approve of the changes proposed. They make sense. I think they should regionalise divisions 4 and 5. I favour shorter seasons. I'm all for the stability of games at 3pm on Saturdays and I approve winter breaks.
I'm not sure that the season ticket will be that marketable at this level. Yes there will be a hard core of season ticket holders who will continue through thick and thin and see the season ticket as a badge of loyalty. There are no economies for me. Each game home and away implies travel of one sort or another and the more distant( which include in my case all the home games) require stopovers especially in midweek and midwinter. The ticket cost is small beer. I probably pay as much for six matches as the entire ticket. I'm really lucky that at this point in my life I can but anno domini is catching up.
I think future patterns will be much more of match day sales unless the club comes up with some sort of membership scheme. I suspect that only a minority of season ticket holders attend every game? This year perhaps for the last time I attended every home game but my wife managed around 7-10. Her affiliation is less than mine and I suspect many like her will not attend much even if renewing. And these plans won't change that. But they might just make clubs spend less and that has to be a good thing.
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Post by megsontilidie on May 22, 2016 21:44:47 GMT
I think that I it all makes good sense. I do like midweek games- the spectacle- especially when these were big games. Broadly I approve of the changes proposed. They make sense. I think they should regionalise divisions 4 and 5. I favour shorter seasons. I'm all for the stability of games at 3pm on Saturdays and I approve winter breaks. I'm not sure that the season ticket will be that marketable at this level. Yes there will be a hard core of season ticket holders who will continue through thick and thin and see the season ticket as a badge of loyalty. There are no economies for me. Each game home and away implies travel of one sort or another and the more distant( which include in my case all the home games) require stopovers especially in midweek and midwinter. The ticket cost is small beer. I probably pay as much for six matches as the entire ticket. I'm really lucky that at this point in my life I can but anno domini is catching up. I think future patterns will be much more of match day sales unless the club comes up with some sort of membership scheme. I suspect that only a minority of season ticket holders attend every game? This year perhaps for the last time I attended every home game but my wife managed around 7-10. Her affiliation is less than mine and I suspect many like her will not attend much even if renewing. And these plans won't change that. But they might just make clubs spend less and that has to be a good thing. very much on the same page as you on this. you actually mentioned a couple of issues i had considered but decided to leave out of my previous post. the regionalisation of lower lge's makes sense. www.statto.com/football/statswww.soccerassociation.com/10/index.htmit's a cultural oddity that we play (far) more games than almost every other country. German with their winter breaks only play 34 games. Belgium 30. Portugal 34 , Turkey 34, Holland 34. the big 3 Euro Lges..England, Spain and Italy all play 38..but of course no winter break for the PL already leaves us the odd man out again. www.espnfc.co.uk/blog/espn-fc-united-blog/68/post/1952197/world-cup-proves-need-for-european-leagues-winter-breakthe England national team no matter how decent they look on paper always seem to carry that disadvantage, and that's with playing 38 games. and the Europa lge has never been won by a British or English club. anyone who watched the last 2 world cups & didn't notice the trends of fresher players doing well, just hasn't been paying attention. easiest debates/arguments to win ever. where were the PL players ( not just english ) in either of the last 2 world cup finals or semi's ? who from the PL actually did well in either of the last 2 world cups ? there was the odd one from the PL, but a tiny proportion compared to when you look where the rest played.
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Post by andyl on May 23, 2016 7:00:02 GMT
Yes I agree and the issue for England at the end of a hard season is clear. The PL is a self serving monster and I applaud actions designed to stabilise the rest of the football league' steams who are buffeted about interminably in the wake of its monstrously selfish self aggrandisement. Roll on a Chinese super league and the defection of the mercenaries.
One point I'd latch on to is increased importance of reserve team football. If that could be achieved it would be a great help. At present the crazy loan system is the only outlet for aspiring lowere league players. When I was at school there was a strong Central League. I used to go to matches when I could and watch future Bolton players. Roy Greaves was a case of a player who came through via reserve team games U21 is no substitute even if overage players turn out. They are not properly tested and there is no worthwhile competition for places internally. Will a fifth division help this or cup games v Arsenal 2s for example. I don't know but it's well worth consideration. Again though regionalisation would be important.
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Post by andyl on May 23, 2016 7:01:01 GMT
Yes I agree and the issue for England at the end of a hard season is clear. The PL is a self serving monster and I applaud actions designed to stabilise the rest of the football league' steams who are buffeted about interminably in the wake of its monstrously selfish self aggrandisement. Roll on a Chinese super league and the defection of the mercenaries.
One point I'd latch on to is increased importance of reserve team football. If that could be achieved it would be a great help. At present the crazy loan system is the only outlet for aspiring lowere league players. When I was at school there was a strong Central League. I used to go to matches when I could and watch future Bolton players. Roy Greaves was a case of a player who came through via reserve team games U21 is no substitute even if overage players turn out. They are not properly tested and there is no worthwhile competition for places internally. Will a fifth division help this or cup games v Arsenal 2s for example. I don't know but it's well worth consideration. Again though regionalisation would be important.
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Post by andyl on May 23, 2016 7:04:15 GMT
I could, I think imagine and perhaps even hope for a future in which the stadium is home to a first team, reserve team and maybe a Ladies'team perhaps playing on the same day as one of the others with fans turning out and developing loyalties to one two or three of the teams. Fanciful ? In my lifetime? Don't know but something has to change.
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Post by realtrottersforever on May 23, 2016 11:44:30 GMT
One point I'd latch on to is increased importance of reserve team football. If that could be achieved it would be a great help. At present the crazy loan system is the only outlet for aspiring lower league players. When I was at school there was a strong Central League. I used to go to matches when I could and watch future Bolton players. Roy Greaves was a case of a player who came through via reserve team games U21 is no substitute even if overage players turn out. They are not properly tested and there is no worthwhile competition for places internally. Will a fifth division help this or cup games v Arsenal 2s for example. I don't know but it's well worth consideration. Again though regionalisation would be important. I too used to attend the Central League matches, both weekend (if me and my dad were not going to the away game) and midweek, and probably would prefer a reintroduction of a Central League, or some such, better that than allowing Premier League clubs to enter a "B" team into the Football league. They already dominate football proceedings as it is. If you just relied on the media you wouldn't know that there are currently 72 other teams in England. Add the "B" team of say Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City, Spurs, that's 5 of the additional 8 places they are talking about, that only leaves 3 places for teams from whatever the lower league is called. With the surfeit of talent that those 5 clubs have, how long before all 5 are in the Championship, then, what would happen if they got promoted to the premier league? You couldn't have Arsenal "A" playing Arsenal "B".Even if they didn't play their major talents, with the quality of their training facilities, back up staff etc, they still would have a huge advantage over the part time professional/amateur lower league teams. If they must change things then fine, but DO NOT let the PL anywhere near the FL.
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